The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01/shooting/2013/

Look at his shot chart. Pretty even distribution over the entire court. He loves that left corner though. He's also taken a ton more shots at the rim than you'd expect. He's not just a spot up shooter.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 10:28 AM ----------

Who would be down for a Wall and Seraphin for Valaciunas, Lowry & unprotected 2014 1st rd pick? We'd get back one of the most promising big men in the game, perhaps the most underrated point guard in the league and a lottery pick in the excellent 2014 draft for 2 headaches (Wall's forthcoming max extension and Seraphin's non-improvement and nonchalance)

I absolutely would not make that deal. And there is no guarantee Toronto's pick would be a lotto pick. If Toronto had Rudy Gay all year this year they'd almost certainly be in the playoffs.

[RonArtest15]

Who would be down for a Wall and Seraphin for Valaciunas, Lowry & unprotected 2014 1st rd pick? We'd get back one of the most promising big men in the game, perhaps the most underrated point guard in the league and a lottery pick in the excellent 2014 draft for 2 headaches (Wall's forthcoming max extension and Seraphin's non-improvement and nonchalance)

I don't understand the premise of trading Wall right now. We have something potentially special building with him and Beal. He's 22 and has shown (this year) that the team responds when he's in the lineup. Why mess things up by moving him? I know he's got his faults, but moving a young player too soon is what this organization's M.O. was for a while. Seeing guys like Sheed and Rip do amazing things in their careers elswhere when they could have been doing those same things here REALLY stung. We need to keep Wall and let him build his chemistry w. Beal.

[method man]

The difference between Mitch Richmond and Jerry Stackhouse vs. Lowry and Valaciunas is that Lowry and Valaciunas are also young and can grow with this team to build a chemistry with Beal for a brighter future.

[Gator Bait]

Nothing is guaranteed about anything in the NBA. But until we are a strong FA draw, a high draft pick is our single best avenue for improvement. This is probably the last time we'll pick in the lottery during the Wall era. An 8th seed is extremely improbable and it's not really that beneficial. It only gets us an ass-whipping from Miami and a draft pick that's probably a long shot to be a contributor. We've got a big looming need for a C next season and a need for a long term SF. We need this draft pick to net us a long term contributor at one of those positions.

so you are rooting for the team to lose so we can have a higher draft pick in a historically weak draft? To each their own....I'd rather see my team win. If this team is good enough to get into the playoffs (from our current position)...I doubt they'd just lay down and die against Miami. I'm not saying we'd win...but it would be a competitive series.

[Going Commando]

I'd take 8th or 9th this year over having a top-5 pick. Seriously.

Why?

Wittman pretty much won us the Houston game on Saturday with his rotations and play calling in the 4th. I totally understand that you all think that he shouldn't be retained...but I think he's grown a heck of a lot this year along with the team. I'd like to see him get the chance to coach these guys up a little more. Who are we kidding? We all know that Wittman is a cheap replacement because we're still on the books for Flip. It won't cost anything to bring him back next year - or at least until Flip's contract is done for.

I actually agree with you about Wittman. I'm ambivalent on him, but I am not in a rush to get rid of him.

For one thing, I think the Xs and Os and lineup management are less important than motivation and getting the team to play as a cohesive, synergistic unit IMO.

Did you all see the shot of Wall standing on the sidelines with his arm around Wittman's shoulder? That image said a lot. The players are not BSing when they say they believe in Wittman. They've bought in to him and they play hard for him and they do play together. He's made them a team and that is worth something.

There is no harm in keeping him for at least next season. His contract is cheap and he knows this team now. A lot of the lineup management and figuring out the rotations and situationals is about knowing your players and knowing your team's identity. That can be learned over time.

Anyone else remember how unhappy Celtics fans use to be with Doc Rivers before they made the KG trade in 2007? I remember a lot of old Bill Simmons articles where he and his readers ****ed about how bad his rotations were, how he couldn't come up with an 8-10 man group, how he shuffled starters around and couldn't manage games.

[StillUnknown]

What I like most about Wittman is that he actually holds players accountable. He's not afraid to sit guys if they aren't showing enough progression. Most recently, Kevin Seraphin. Dude had all the opportunities in the world to flourish in this system and faltered. He's now glued to the bench. THAT is what I like most about him is that there is zero nonsense.

I'm with you there, players should and have to be held accountable. Coaches/GM's should also be held accountable when they have proven that they can't develop young players. 1 or 2 young players not developing wouldn't be an issue, but its hard to point to 1 young player we've drafted or acquired that became more than what they were when they first arrived.

Ted has made a big deal of saying free agents don't want to sign here, that makes it even more important that we develop our own guys. The two in charge now, will not cut it.

Edited February 26, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Gator Bait]

Who would be down for a Wall and Seraphin for Valaciunas, Lowry & unprotected 2014 1st rd pick? We'd get back one of the most promising big men in the game, perhaps the most underrated point guard in the league and a lottery pick in the excellent 2014 draft for 2 headaches (Wall's forthcoming max extension and Seraphin's non-improvement and nonchalance)

No way. Wall has way more upside than Lowry. I do like Lowry, but I'm still rollin' with JWall. Unless Wall has a monster year next year, he isn't going to get a max extension. Most of the GMs in the league don't believe he is a franchise player.

[Going Commando]

so you are rooting for the team to lose so we can have a higher draft pick in a historically weak draft? To each their own....I'd rather see my team win. If this team is good enough to get into the playoffs (from our current position)...I doubt they'd just lay down and die against Miami. I'm not saying we'd win...but it would be a competitive series.

I don't see the draft as being historically weak. I think it's a good deal stronger than 2011 was for starters. I see this as being a very good big man crop with at least four or five guys that have the potential to be starting Cs in the NBA.

I think Zeller and Noel are very good and very safe big man prospects and I would love to get one of them. They could secure our long term future for when Okafor is gone and Nene starts declining. It sets the second part of the Wall and Beal era up for success. We don't really have anything that promising as far as big men go post Nene/Okafor. I doubt we get any more lotto picks during the Wall/Beal era unless those guys get hurt.

Miami would beat us but I actually think we could be something of a nightmare match up for Miami in the first round. Our PG is better than any of theirs and our two big men are good and have size and experience. They would have a really hard time dealing with Nene and Oak given their lack of interior size. Beal would be competitive with Wade. He'd lose the matchup but he wouldn't back down and he'd make Wade work. And then you just slap Singleton and Ariza on LeBron and at least bother him. We'd have trouble scoring on Miami though.

[RonArtest15]

Why?

I actually agree with you about Wittman. I'm ambivalent on him, but I am not in a rush to get rid of him.

For one thing, I think the Xs and Os and lineup management are less important than motivation and getting the team to play as a cohesive, synergistic unit IMO.

Did you all see the shot of Wall standing on the sidelines with his arm around Wittman's shoulder? That image said a lot. The players are not BSing when they say they believe in Wittman. They've bought in to him and they play hard for him and they do play together. He's made them a team and that is worth something.

There is no harm in keeping him for at least next season. His contract is cheap and he knows this team now. A lot of the lineup management and figuring out the rotations and situationals is about knowing your players and knowing your team's identity. That can be learned over time.

Anyone else remember how unhappy Celtics fans use to be with Doc Rivers before they made the KG trade in 2007? I remember a lot of old Bill Simmons articles where he and his readers ****ed about how bad his rotations were, how he couldn't come up with an 8-10 man group, how he shuffled starters around and couldn't manage games.

I think an 8th or 9th seed - especially considering where this team was before Wall came back- would be EXTREMELY encouraging. A lotto or top-5 pick is what we've become accustomed to. There needs to be more and fighting for an actual playoff spot and not being one of the jokes of the league is a step in the right direction, IMO.

Good points on how the C's fans viewed Doc Rivers. Also, I like the word "ambivalent" when describing Wittman. Good points all around, SM.

I'm with you there, players should and have to be held accountable. Coaches/GM's should also be held accountable when they have proven that they can't develop young players. 1 or 2 young players not developing wouldn't be an issue, but its hard to point to 1 young player we've drafted or acquired that became more than what they were when they first arrived.

Ted has made a big deal of saying free agents don't want to sign here, that makes it even more important that we develop our own guys. The two in charge now, will not cut it.

We need to win and establish a culture of doing so before FAs take DC as a serious destination to sign.

[Going Commando]

I don't understand the premise of trading Wall right now. We have something potentially special building with him and Beal. He's 22 and has shown (this year) that the team responds when he's in the lineup. Why mess things up by moving him? I know he's got his faults, but moving a young player too soon is what this organization's M.O. was for a while. Seeing guys like Sheed and Rip do amazing things in their careers elswhere when they could have been doing those same things here REALLY stung. We need to keep Wall and let him build his chemistry w. Beal.

Absolutely. His upside is still massive. He's got the potential to be a Jason Kidd, less of a three point shot but more of a holistic defender. It would have to be something really really nice I'd get back in return for me to give up on that. A whole hell of a lot nicer than a late lotto pick, Valanciunas, and Kyle Lowery.

Plus he's the leader of this team through and through. You drastically change the identity of the team and the build by dealing him.

[RonArtest15]

Why?

I actually agree with you about Wittman. I'm ambivalent on him, but I am not in a rush to get rid of him.

For one thing, I think the Xs and Os and lineup management are less important than motivation and getting the team to play as a cohesive, synergistic unit IMO.

Did you all see the shot of Wall standing on the sidelines with his arm around Wittman's shoulder? That image said a lot. The players are not BSing when they say they believe in Wittman. They've bought in to him and they play hard for him and they do play together. He's made them a team and that is worth something.

There is no harm in keeping him for at least next season. His contract is cheap and he knows this team now. A lot of the lineup management and figuring out the rotations and situationals is about knowing your players and knowing your team's identity. That can be learned over time.

Anyone else remember how unhappy Celtics fans use to be with Doc Rivers before they made the KG trade in 2007? I remember a lot of old Bill Simmons articles where he and his readers ****ed about how bad his rotations were, how he couldn't come up with an 8-10 man group, how he shuffled starters around and couldn't manage games.

I'm with you there, players should and have to be held accountable. Coaches/GM's should also be held accountable when they have proven that they can't develop young players. 1 or 2 young players not developing wouldn't be an issue, but its hard to point to 1 young player we've drafted or acquired that became more than what they were when they first arrived.

Ted has made a big deal of saying free agents don't want to sign here, that makes it even more important that we develop our own guys. The two in charge now, will not cut it.

Absolutely. His upside is still massive. He's got the potential to be a Jason Kidd, less of a three point shot but more of a holistic defender. It would have to be something really really nice I'd get back in return for me to give up on that. A whole hell of a lot nicer than a late lotto pick, Valanciunas, and Kyle Lowery.

Plus he's the leader of this team through and through. You drastically change the identity of the team and the build by dealing him.

I'd bet we'd add Wall to a long list of players (Sheed, Rip, Webber, etc) who were given up on much too soon and then flourished elsewhere. We have two foundational building blocks at our disposal. No need to screw all that up.

[method man]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01/shooting/2013/

Look at his shot chart. Pretty even distribution over the entire court. He loves that left corner though. He's also taken a ton more shots at the rim than you'd expect. He's not just a spot up shooter.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 10:28 AM ----------

I absolutely would not make that deal. And there is no guarantee Toronto's pick would be a lotto pick. If Toronto had Rudy Gay all year this year they'd almost certainly be in the playoffs.

I don't think Rudy Gay is very good. I don't think Wall and Gay will lead a team to the playoffs with no credible big man.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 11:25 AM ----------

No way. Wall has way more upside than Lowry. I do like Lowry, but I'm still rollin' with JWall. Unless Wall has a monster year next year, he isn't going to get a max extension. Most of the GMs in the league don't believe he is a franchise player.

I think you underrate how stupid NBA GMs are. There are going to be a few out there with max cap space that strike out with the premier max FA types and will sign Wall out of an act of desperation to the max to appease their fanbases.

[Gator Bait]

I don't see the draft as being historically weak.

.

The experts would disagree with you. I've heard many NBA analysis say this is one of the worst drafts in modern history.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 11:39 AM ----------

I think you underrate how stupid NBA GMs are. There are going to be a few out there with max cap space that strike out with the premier max FA types and will sign Wall out of an act of desperation to the max to appease their fanbases.

that is possible, but he will be a restricted FA...so we'd have the ability to match. If he stays consistent with his last 3 years....I still say he doesn't get the Max. BUT he has next year to prove he is a franchise player and the way this team is growing together...it might happen.

[Going Commando]

Wall will get what he earns. Steph Curry money is fair for him. Wall won't get a max contract from anyone without an All Star appearance. Will Brandon Jennings get max money this offseason?

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 11:49 AM ----------

The experts would disagree with you. I've heard many NBA analysis say this is one of the worst drafts in modern history.

Whose saying that? Most people think it's an average class that lacks a clear cut #1 but it's got a lot of good players in it.

[Skins199021]

Zeller and Noel are such question marks at the NBA level. It wouldn't surprise me if neither ended up starters in the league (especially zeller). Plus Noel is so raw and has suffered a major injury.

If things continue as they are and we end up with a 10-15 pick.

I hope the Wiz pick one of Porter/Austin/ and I also like Glen Robinson III

We need guys that can score, and the above 3 can (though Austin I am conflicted on what position he plays I think a stretch 4). We need points so badly, we are having trouble scoring simple as that. Zeller seems liek a bench guy to me.

I don't know If we pick a European I'll kill EG that is all I know

[Gator Bait]

Whose saying that? Most people think it's an average class that lacks a clear cut #1 but it's got a lot of good players in it.

everyone I've heard talk about it....guys on ESPN and TNT have all said this class lacks any stars. They say there could be some solid starters, but no stars.

[Skins199021]

everyone I've heard talk about it....guys on ESPN and TNT have all said this class lacks any stars. They say there could be some solid starters, but no stars.

Reality is that no one knows.

[Gator Bait]

Reality is that no one knows.

No one can know for sure...but I'd be more inclined to believe what guys who get paid for their analysis say over some random guy on a football message board

[Skins199021]

No one can know for sure...but I'd be more inclined to believe what guys who get paid for their analysis say over some random guy on a football message board

No one thought Paul George would be that good. I mean there won't be any Lebrons/Wades/Howards or anything like that.

But there will most likely be a guys like Nene, Butler, Jamison, in their primes type guys. There will be all stars in this draft I just don't think Zeller or Noel will be them.

[Gator Bait]

No one thought Paul George would be that good. I mean there won't be any Lebrons/Wades/Howards or anything like that.

But there will most likely be a guys like Nene, Butler, Jamison, in their primes type guys. There will be all stars in this draft I just don't think Zeller or Noel will be them.

actually a lot of people were really high on Paul George for his potential. There likely will be an all-star or two in the draft...but it might not be one of the lottery picks....

[RonArtest15]

Check out this TAI link about the Wizards being the NBA's best 3pt shooting team with John Wall.

Link

IMO, this guy is unfairly criticized by many and undervalued. People can nit-pick on his flaws all they want, but for THIS YEAR, the proof is in the pudding as far as his team impact both on offense and defense.

[Skins199021]

Everything would be so much easier if EG took the guy most of us wanted in Leonard back in 2011. God I was mad when we picked Vesely. I wanted Leonard so bad

[RonArtest15]

Everything would be so much easier if EG took the guy most of us wanted in Leonard back in 2011. God I was mad when we picked Vesely. I wanted Leonard so bad

On that note...no matter where we draft this year, the pressure is on EG (or whoever is GM at the time) to draft a player who can come in right away and contribute. Can't have any more 1st round busts or guys who can't crack the rotation. There has to be a sense of urgency to get better.

[nuposse87]

Which is why if we have a shot at Porter we'll probably immediately take him. He can do exactly what we need from the SF position while adding some playmaking.

I kind of wish we did swap picks with another team before the trade deadline. I see this team finishing with 30-32 wins. Probably enough to knock us out of getting porter, especially considering his value is actually increasing.

[Going Commando]

Zeller and Noel are such question marks at the NBA level. It wouldn't surprise me if neither ended up starters in the league (especially zeller). Plus Noel is so raw and has suffered a major injury.

If things continue as they are and we end up with a 10-15 pick.

I hope the Wiz pick one of Porter/Austin/ and I also like Glen Robinson III

We need guys that can score, and the above 3 can (though Austin I am conflicted on what position he plays I think a stretch 4). We need points so badly, we are having trouble scoring simple as that. Zeller seems liek a bench guy to me.

I don't know If we pick a European I'll kill EG that is all I know

Zeller is one of the best scorers in the class.

I don't really care for GRIII. He's a SG playing out of position at SF because Michigan is strong at guard. He needs to go back to school IMO.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 02:32 PM ----------

On that note...no matter where we draft this year, the pressure is on EG (or whoever is GM at the time) to draft a player who can come in right away and contribute. Can't have any more 1st round busts or guys who can't crack the rotation. There has to be a sense of urgency to get better.

I think there is probably less pressure on this draft pick to contribute right off than any previous pick. The team already has a good starting 5 in place for next year and is going to be better than at any point since Wall is drafted.

I would go for upside with this pick. He can stow away and develop over a long term and come in and be ready to play when Oak/Nene are old/gone and Wall and Beal enter their primes.