From another board: ESPN Ticker reporting Dalton trade to Skins for conditional pick

[Awesome]

As long as our DT's can hold guys off Trotter, Arrington and Armstead, our run defense should be ok, at least as good as last year, especially since thos lb's have a year in the scheme under their belts. I really like that Dalton is familiar with the sytem too.

The O's going to score some points this year, definitely more than last year, possibly even a top 10 offense. If the D can take away the run and force teams like Tampa Bay, Philly, Miami, Atlanta and Carolina to throw the ball down the field, we should be a playoff team in 2003, which sure would be nice.

[Flowtrain]

Originally posted by Art

Flow,

Dalton costs $1.8 million next year before going to $3 million. And, as has been discussed he doesn't get a dime of that unless he's actually here and starting because we have no ramifications for cutting him.

But, as expected, and as you know intimately well from Snyder's dealings with your bumbling front office, he tends to get what he wants. Not only did he make one move at tackle since you were last expressing concern at the prospects, but, he's made two moves. It's something else watching him operate, isn't it?

I mean, we lose Noble and need a tackle or two and our guy goes out and gets guys with starting experience who've proven to have NFL level skills at least on some level. You guys lose your QB in Pennington and your response is to sign Todd Husak, a guy with little NFL skill who can't really be expected to add anything but a practice squad arm to the team.

Guess the difference in how well one front office works compared to how poorly yours does gets to you, doesn't it?

No ramifications for cutting Dalton? How about a wasted draft pick - or those don't matter?

As for Snyder getting his man - you can't be serious if you actually believe that his first choice was a guy who was benched in 2002 for ineffective play, and that Chase wasn't Snyder's 3rd choice on the Saints alone. Who are you fooling? I doubt you're even fooling any of your fellow Skins fans with that kind of talk. Neither Dalton nor Chase were Snyder's first choices, both cost the Skins a chance at obtaining cheap talent through the draft, and yes, it is amazing to watch Snyder operate.

Also, I'm not sure if you noticed but Husak is not the Jets #2 QB. It's Testaverde and it's Bollinger and probably one of two QBs being worked out today. Husak has been with the Jets, knows the system and can play in the next preseason game before likely get cut. I'd leave it to you though to criticize a move intended to secure the QBs health in the last preseason game. I have no idea how Vinny will do and I'm less than comfortable with him as the starting QB. But Vinny, for all his warts, is one of the better backups in the league and Bradway certainly did his job in making sure Testaverde didn't leave this offseason as people predicted.

I do have a serious question because I don't know the answer. How many draft picks do the Skins have in 2004?

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Originally posted by Flowtrain

I do have a serious question because I don't know the answer. How many draft picks do the Skins have in 2004?

Depends on what Jet restricted free agents aren't tendered.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[The Wicked Wop]

both cost the Skins a chance at obtaining cheap talent through the draft, and yes, it is amazing to watch Snyder operate.

If Chase and Dalton don't work out.....you gave up picks which alot of teams cut any how (6th and 7th rounders)....if they do work, the season maybe saved by giving up say a 5th and a 6th to guys that help solidify a line. At 1.8 mil next year Dalton is affordable if he works out this year. Hey if they were giving up say 3rd and 4th rounders I would agree, but to blast a team for giving up late picks to help solidfy their team before the season starts is just stupid:finger:

[Henry]

Flow, maybe you should read the whole thread. Here's from 2 pages ago.

It's nice to avoid a gaping hole in the middle and all, but if both of these guys work out, and I hope they do, we are already down to a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 7th rounder next year. I can't say I'm too happy about that.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I told you guys a couple of weeks ago all the Skins need is a serviceable DLine with the LB's and DB's you have. Well, it looks like the FO of the Skins have managed to do that. While your new starting DT's are nothing to write home about, they should plug up the middle. You guys are still missing a pass rush but if there is no one open to throw too, who cares? I am curious how much Dalton will play your last preseason game. Well, at least you have two games before playing the Giants. I'd like to get a look at how your DLine is going to play.

I also have a question.

Does Snyder not like drafting players? Does he have a golf outing planned every third weekend in April? This guy seems to give away a lot of draft picks. I will say though that at least the draft picks he has been giving away are for young guys with experience. Speaking of which, how old are Dalton and Chase?

[SonnyJ]

Flow,

How many highly productive 5th, 6th, and 7th round draft picks are currently on the Jets? Include only those currently on the team.

EDIT: The point being, are these picks that much more likely to stick than UDFAs, of which the team can sign as many as they want?

[Henry]

Tom, last season we ended up drafting 10 players. The world only seems to notice when Synder trades picks away, but he doesn't do it every year.

[Art]

Flow,

I realize you are mourning the loss of the Redskins chances at landing nice, cheap draft players in the future. But, can I ask how exactly that is of any benefit to us now? Giving up a fifth and a sixth round pick for guys who will help your team now and have a legitimate chance to help your team for the next couple of years is actually paying back MORE than a typical fifth or sixth rounder does.

You realize, right, that a lot of draft picks don't ever make the team. Even those that might, don't always play for the team at any point. It's a rare player indeed who comes in as a fifth or sixth rounder and provides any real help to the team in the first couple of years at least.

Therefore, it seems stunningly dumb for you to worry about why we would risk a fifth and sixth round draft picks who won't be able to help us in 2005 when we have acquired two guys who may well still be helping us in 2005 and up until that point.

Help me out here by telling me how great a help James Reed and Situpe Peko and Windrell Hayes and Tony Scott and, etc., etc., etc., have been keepers for you over the last few drafts in the later rounds. While we all hope to find the draft gem, the fact is players taken that late in the draft do very little for quite a while. We know, as an example, that Matt Bowen is a better player today and into the near future than a typical sixth rounder would be. We know, as an example, that Jermaine Haley is better today and into the near future than a typical seventh rounder would be.

We know, as an example, that Martin Chase is of more help today and into the near future than the typical sixth rounder in next year's draft might be. We know, as an example, that Dalton is of more help today and into the near future than the typical fifth rounder in next year's draft might be.

And, given we had holes today I'm rather certain you aren't of the mind that hoping a late-round pick might pan out in three or four years is actually a smart management technique, are you?

[tenaciousd]

Lordy! Woah is me. What ever shall we dooooo without a 6th and 7th round pick? I'm all flush. How can we field a team if we can't draft punters and backup TEs.....?

I'm woosy......I'm gettin' the vapors....

[The Evil Genius]

The fact remains, as long as the Skins continue to pick up undrafted free agents (rookies) that make the team - there is no need for 5th, 6th, and 7th round draft picks.

The Skins have been successful the past 2 years (including this one, am I jumping the gun on it already) in doing that.

[jbooma]

Flow,

Don't forget we will have 3 #1's next year :0

The current one and the 2 when we trade Champ, so who cares about a 6 or 7th when you have 3 #1's

Also unlike the Jets when someone goes down we don't just throw away the season. Noble goes down we get some DT's. Chad goes down and you get Husak to back up 40 year old Testaverde who is one hit from being done. You had a chance for a good qb in the jags qb but didn't go for it. Even if it was for a rental, but he would have been a good rental.

Without Chad the jets are a below .500 team.

[Skinhead]

Tom I guess your to young to remember George Allen. If he were still here we'd be trading draft picks for 2007.

[jbooma]

Here is some good news:

"Dalton agreed to reduce his salary for this season from $1.6 million to $900,000. "

[poidog44]

Hate to say it but we blow at late round draft picks. In fact, to

make room for Dalton, a seventh rounder from last year (Greg

Scott) was cut. Other than ROCK and if you want to stretch

it...Terrell, name another decent Redskin late rounder. Of course,

Husak (5th rounder) could tear it up for the J-E-T-S...JETS, JETS,

JETS.

[Art]

Royal and McCants have possibilities. Royal especially could be our starting tight end and not make us want to shoot ourselves . More and more, the draft of 2002 looks like it's bearing fruit. You appear to be set to have your starting QB, tight end and fullback for the next several years out of that draft. Betts could yet emerge as your back. Russell is in the mix at receiver. Bauman is your primary nickel defender at this point.

Interesting how a little time seems to be changing things somewhat.

[Henry]

name another decent Redskin late rounder.

Andre Lott, Robert Royal, Darnerian McCants, Del Cowsett ...

That's just the past three years. We actually do pretty well in the later rounds.

[mcgarnicle71]

I dont think anyone could develop late-rounders better then Gibbs though .

[poidog44]

I agree on Royal but Lott is iffy and kind of a tweener and McCants has been injured through the preseason...and don't care much for Cowsette. Guess I am spoiled by Gibbs...he was a God (big G)

[Henry]

You guys want pro-bowlers at every position? These guys were all drafted in rounds 5-7, have contributed to the team and are dirt cheap. You NEED guys liike that on your team nowadays. I'd rather have guys like this at the backup backup spots than undrafted FAs we pick up at the last second, or underachieving vets we have to overpay for. And if you find a starter in that bunch (we could have two) so much the better.

[Flowtrain]

Originally posted by SonnyJ

Flow,

How many highly productive 5th, 6th, and 7th round draft picks are currently on the Jets? Include only those currently on the team.

EDIT: The point being, are these picks that much more likely to stick than UDFAs, of which the team can sign as many as they want?

Why just look at the Jets to see what value can be gained in the 5th round. Look league-wide and you see 5th rounders like:

LeRoi Glover

Zach Thomas

Rodney Harrison

Marc Brunell

Joe Horn

Dante Hall

Chad Morton

KGB

I won't bore you with the 6th rounders, but isn't it noteworthy that in the last 6 years, 2 Super Bowl MVPs were 6th rounders, and of the other 4 MVPs, one was undrafted and one was a 4th rounder?

But those guys I mentioned are standouts, aberrations. What just plain old solid starters? The last couple seasons, the Jets have had their share of starters taken by them or other teams on the second day or not at all: Jason Ferguson, Wayne Chrebet, Jason Fabini, Dave Szott, Sam Garnes, Ryan Young Chad Morton, Damien Robinson, Marcus Coleman, Richie Anderson.

Fellas - it's a numbers game. We all know the odds are stacked against landing a gem. But if you have a 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th -- well, that's 4 bites at the apple. Your odds are greatly increased.

Also, too often overlooked is the late rounders' impact on STs. Westhoff has tremendous leeway during the draft to pick guys who are great ST-ers. Since many late rounders get cut - this is one place they can really help a team and Westhoff's cover men and blockers are filled with them. Last year, these no names were superb.

Further, there's great value in late picks to trade up in earlier rounds to snag players you want. They're also helpful in negotiating trades and teams without them are disadvantaged as the Skins saw when they had no 4th rounder for Ted Washington.

Finally - there's the simple economics. You can pay your core group of vets but that means your supporting cast must come cheap. Starters here or there, depth guys here or there, role players here or there -- all of whom, capable producers and playing for a dirt cheap salary.

There are a number of positives that can come out of those late picks - I just tried to point out a couple. To me that adds up to surrendering draft picks only in return for quality players whose performance looks like an excellent bet. Dump a pick to fill a hole with a good strong player (Grady Jackson, for example)? Sure. Dump two picks coming off a 3 pick draft in 2003, when you're already short a pick in 2004, in return for questionable players to throw into a mix of more questionable players? That would not have been my choice. I don't think the return outweighs the potential positives mentioned above.

That's just my opinion and it was one I stated a couple weeks ago. It hasn't changed.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I am too young to remember George Allen.

jbooma,

You won't have 3 first rounders next year. You will have two next year and two the year after.

And all of you should thinik about this, if you do get the first rounders for Champ Bailey, that could land you Kellen Winslow Jr. as your TE of the future.

[stevea]

Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan]

I also have a question.

Does Snyder not like drafting players? Does he have a golf outing planned every third weekend in April? This guy seems to give away a lot of draft picks. I will say though that at least the draft picks he has been giving away are for young guys with experience. Speaking of which, how old are Dalton and Chase?

Tom,

Your balanced opinions are always appreciated ... all too rare among rivals' fans.

You asked a question.

The answer is that Snyder has proven himself comfortable going both ways. :laugh:

This past year he traded away multiple picks for what most agree are good value players and we ended up with the fewest draft picks of any team in the draft.

The prior year (2002) he traded down in the first round from slot 18 to slot 21, adding a later pick, and then from 21 to 32, adding another pick (or was it two), and at 32 drafted the player the team targeted as theie first round objective all along -- Patrick Ramsey. Then in the 2nd round he traded down again (which myself and many other Redskins fans didn't like because we would have preferred taking DL Anthony Weaver).

So the undeniable answer is that he will be creative and generous in his efforts to improve the team -- success yet to be determined.

BTW, both Dalton and Chase are 28.

HTTR!

[NavyDave]

So we may lose a 6th and 7th rounder.

We always seem to find those UDFA's.

Look at Clifton Smith and Sultan Mac

[Manasseh]

Also, too often overlooked is the late rounders' impact on STs. Westhoff has tremendous leeway during the draft to pick guys who are great ST-ers. Since many late rounders get cut - this is one place they can really help a team and Westhoff's cover men and blockers are filled with them. Last year, these no names were superb.

I think we got a decent ST-er last year with a late round pick. You may have heard of him. I think his name was Chad Morton or something like that! :laugh: