Jeff Fisher on Albert Haynesworth and "The Test"

[crimetime21]

glad i read this cause i was starting to think shanahan was being unfair. but really albert is just fat and lazy.

[ddub52]

I wouldn't listen to Jeff Fisher on anything to deal with Albert Haynesworth. His team lost five games straight last year after losing his star defensive player. If anyone watched Warren Sapp on Nfl network tonight he was talking about how he wouldn't be able to pass that test when he was a player and he was against us signing Haynesworth.

They lost a lot more than Haynesworth last year. Their defense was a shell of its former self. If anything, Id say Fisher is the best person to listen to regarding Al since he got the most production out of him

[TerpSkin]

lol... I'm not defending Haynesworth at all. Nor did I say it was SOOO much harder. But let's address a couple things... Fisher said it was the same? Big deal. Where did Fisher here the exact times of drill completion and rest allotted to Hayensworth? Because it has not been published. Shanahan said it was part of OTA conditioning? Big deal. Where did he say that participants of the OTAs all passed the test with the exact same time requirements as Haynesworth? Because that too has not been published.

I'm all for Shanahan laying down the law a little here... and I'm all for the OTA participants being given a break on this test. But I am under no illusions that Kemoeatu and Green can walk out there and pass the exact test Haynesworth has been asked to do on their first try. There will come a point where the law-laying will be too far. I do hope Shanahan does not pass that point, but I'm certainly happy to see a little precedent being set.

[ddub52]

I'm all for Shanahan laying down the law a little here... and I'm all for the OTA participants being given a break on this test. But I am under no illusions that Kemoeatu and Green can walk out there and pass the exact test Haynesworth has been asked to do on their first try. There will come a point where the law-laying will be too far. I do hope Shanahan does not pass that point, but I'm certainly happy to see a little precedent being set.

Very well said

[brianm23]

The host of washington post live did it in 63 and 67 seconds. Granted he's not 300 lbs. but he is 35 and he isn't getting paid millions to be in shape. The media is treating Haynesworth like a baby. It took Terrence Cody 3 times to pass the Ravens conditioning test where's the uproar about that.

There is no uproar because Cody was at the OTAs/Mini-camp, not getting a 21 million bonus check, didn't defy his coach at the beginning of the season.

When/if he does that, rest assured it will be a big deal.

[Nokeman]

I'm all for Shanahan laying down the law a little here... and I'm all for the OTA participants being given a break on this test. But I am under no illusions that Kemoeatu and Green can walk out there and pass the exact test Haynesworth has been asked to do on their first try. There will come a point where the law-laying will be too far. I do hope Shanahan does not pass that point, but I'm certainly happy to see a little precedent being set.

Your statement is still predicated on the illusion that Shanny is just laying down the law. He is simply following through on plans made well before TC. That is, before all this off season stuff, it was said if ANYONE does not attend 50% of off season activities, they will be required to pass this test. Al is the ONLY individual who falls under that category. Therefore, he is the only individual required to take and pass this test.

And just so you know TerpSkin, the official time requirements were released before Fisher made his comments... 70sec for lineman. So yes, when he said they run the same test, he did indeed mean the same test.

[stevenaa]

But I am under no illusions that Kemoeatu and Green can walk out there and pass the exact test Haynesworth has been asked to do on their first try. .

So as a fan your in a better position to gauge the difficulty of the test then Fisher? This is your argument? Exactly how many pro training camps have you led? You know less then Fisher, yet you know that Kemoeatu or Green couldn't pass on a first try? Let the insanity continue. :beatdeadhorse:

[Nokeman]

And how the hell do you know they couldnt walk out there and pass the same test? You dont have any clue, so using that as a part of your argument/position is a bit foolish.

[TerpSkin]

I don't know why people are having such fits over this. Maybe I'm wrong, but coaches (at least the good ones) are professional liars. And I've got no problem with that.

You might think I'm a little presumptuous to assume that this is beyond just a set of rules clearly laid out from the outset that all players were exactly held to evenly... and I think it's a bit naive to think there is no element of a message being sent here. But please stop the madness of taking the words of two awesome professional liars, Shanahan and Fisher (which I say in total admiration for it is part of their job as NFL football coaches), as gospel. Have a little more healthy skepticism than that.

BTW, wasn't Fisher Haynesworth's coach? And he said he's being doing this exact test for years? And Haynesworth reportedly said he couldn't do what Shanahan is expecting in his absolute best years?

And also, please don't confuse my message with any sort of disrespect towards Shanahan. I am a HUGE and UNAPOLOGETIC homer fan of the Skins. I think part of Zorn's problem was that he didn't lie enough... and didn't play these sorts of mind games enough. I've acknowledged there is a point where it could go too far, but have not claimed we have passed that point.

[stevenaa]

There's nothing to be gained by Fisher lying about this type of thing. There's nothing that seems out of the ordinary about this test.

[FuriousD]

But please stop the madness of taking the words of two awesome professional liars, Shanahan and Fisher (which I say in total admiration for it is part of their job as NFL football coaches), as gospel. Have a little more healthy skepticism than that.

BTW, wasn't Fisher Haynesworth's coach? And he said he's being doing this exact test for years? And Haynesworth reportedly said he couldn't do what Shanahan is expecting in his absolute best years?

You wrote this so obviously you see no problem with it, but why, why, why would you use anything Haynesworth says to support your argumant?

Everything about that man's personality is flawed! Everything. But what he says trumps Shnanahan and Fisher? It's irrational!

:helmet:

[Playsmart30]

Someone please answer this... Is this hurting Haynesworth or the team? Who really care about a test? Make him take test and then practice with the team

[Wildbunny]

Maybe it's just Fat albert that don't care about succeeding the test or not. He's required to be at camp, that's what he's doing.

After all, he sais that he'll be at TC to avoid being fined and still looking for a trade... So why bother learning a system if you hope to be traded soon?

Who knows what goes through Albert's mind besides cheeseburgers?

[styx491]

Someone please answer this... Is this hurting Haynesworth or the team? Who really care about a test? Make him take test and then practice with the team

Imo it's not hurting the team because the team is making way with what it has now, and Haynesworth is an extra commodity currently. If he is on the team, the unit is definitely better, but I think in the teams eyes, the defense is already pretty damn good. Plus, him not being in the lineup prepares the team for the times during games when he does take plays off or has to be carted off the field for whatever reason only to return 20 minutes later

[FuriousD]

Someone please answer this... Is this hurting Haynesworth or the team? Who really care about a test? Make him take test and then practice with the team

You're right!

Why have tests? Why have rules? Why have accountability? Why have OTA's? Why have mini-camp? Why have training camp? Why have coaches at all? Why have a football T.E.A.M.?

My god, Snyder could save sooo much money!!!

:doh:

[theTruthTeller]

Someone please answer this... Is this hurting Haynesworth or the team? Who really care about a test? Make him take test and then practice with the team

If AH can't run back and forth 12 times without causing a two day fatigue, how do you think he fare pushing against a 350 OG sixty times a game? All he did was lose weight. He's not in any sort of athletic shape.

[Nokeman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playsmart30

Someone please answer this... Is this hurting Haynesworth or the team? Who really care about a test? Make him take test and then practice with the team

You're right!

Why have tests? Why have rules? Why have accountability? Why have OTA's? Why have mini-camp? Why have training camp? Why have coaches at all? Why have a football T.E.A.M.?

My god, Snyder could save sooo much money!!!

Brilliant!! None of those things are important at all!!

[TerpSkin]

Wow... people really are not getting what I am saying. I am not trusting Haynesworth over Shanahan nor am I bashing what Shanahan is doing. I just think it's a bit naive to think just because Shanahan said it and Fisher chimed in that all the other linemen on the roster would pass the EXACT test Haynesworth failed. And it's also a bit strange to say Fisher has no reason to support Shanahan in this. Have you ever listened to what coaches say about eachother in the media? They are almost always overly complimentary often to the point of being a bit ridiculous. They do this because it is a repeated game and networking is tremendously important... of course there is incentive.

This isn't trusting Haynesworth, but it just doesn't make sense that this guy can't pass a conditioning test that is exactly the same as the test he must have passed repeatedly with Fisher if what Fisher is saying is exactly right. Especially considering that there is no denying that Haynesworth got his weight down quite a bit. And <yawn> yes I know weight is not identical to conditioning in anticipation of the people who will nit-pick... but it is a pretty striong indication.

Look, it's naive to think this is 100% only about being in shape.

AND I'M HAPPY WITH THAT!!!

[brianm23]

Wow... people really are not getting what I am saying. I am not trusting Haynesworth over Shanahan nor am I bashing what Shanahan is doing. I just think it's a bit naive to think just because Shanahan said it and Fisher chimed in that all the other linemen on the roster would pass the EXACT test Haynesworth failed. And it's also a bit strange to say Fisher has no reason to support Shanahan in this. Have you ever listened to what coaches say about eachother in the media? They are almost always overly complimentary often to the point of being a bit ridiculous. They do this because it is a repeated game and networking is tremendously important... of course there is incentive.

Look, it's naive to think this is 100% only about being in shape.

Well, you are questioning the test in itself, which is essentially questioning what the coach is doing. Then you go on to say that this isn't just about being in shape, which you are basically saying Shanny is being vindictive and doing this only because it's AH. Whether you see that way or not is another matter all together.

What you fail to realize is that these rules were set long before AH came into camp. This isn't something that was made up on the spot when AH showed up. It was told to them prior that if you fell below 50% attendance on the OTAs/Mini-camp that you would be subject to a conditioning test.

As far as Fisher goes, not only has he verified this, but other NFL players and Ex-players. This isn't a NFL conspiracy against AH to make him look bad.

[HailGreen28]

Wow... people really are not getting what I am saying. I am not trusting Haynesworth over Shanahan nor am I bashing what Shanahan is doing. I just think it's a bit naive to think just because Shanahan said it and Fisher chimed in that all the other linemen on the roster would pass the EXACT test Haynesworth failed. And it's also a bit strange to say Fisher has no reason to support Shanahan in this. Have you ever listened to what coaches say about eachother in the media? They are almost always overly complimentary often to the point of being a bit ridiculous. They do this because it is a repeated game and networking is tremendously important... of course there is incentive.

This isn't trusting Haynesworth, but it just doesn't make sense that this guy can't pass a conditioning test that is exactly the same as the test he must have passed repeatedly with Fisher if what Fisher is saying is exactly right. Especially considering that there is no denying that Haynesworth got his weight down quite a bit. And <yawn> yes I know weight is not identical to conditioning in anticipation of the people who will nit-pick... but it is a pretty striong indication.

Look, it's naive to think this is 100% only about being in shape.

AND I'M HAPPY WITH THAT!!!

It doesn't have to be about trust at all, dude.

Haynescrap took a big bonus over the summer, then his agent publically demanded a trade. This is not in dispute. No need to "trust" anything here.

Haynescrap claimed he skipped OTAs to work with a personal trainer. Quotes attributed to him, his trainer, and the Skins. This is not in dispute.

Others have posted links that Shanahan announced in advance that people who didn't attend a percentage of OTAs would be tested before taking the field. This test was not sprung on Haynescrap because he skipped practice. This is not in dispute.

Other coaches AND PLAYERS have said this is a common conditioning test. This is not in dispute.

Haynescrap failed the test twice. This is not in dispute.

So what is there to "trust", other than try to make excuses for Haynescrap? Either he gets it in gear, or he doesn't.

edit: Saw Brian's post above mine. Not trying to pile on you, Terpskin. Just arguing the situation, plz don't feel your getting ganged up on personally or anything.

Hail!

[Bang]

Look, it's naive to think this is 100% only about being in shape.

I think this is where you've hit the nail on the head. This is about discipline. (The shape part is included, but while this drill will get him into better shape, I doubt it's integral to his success on the field. They can play it like it is, which gives them the plausible deniablity of simply punishing AH. Shanahan's a fox!)

Albert not only should see by now that they will not treat him special because he makes the cash, he should also see that the rest of the team will progress without him.

It's like putting a kid in timeout. the punishment there is to show the kid that the world will continue without him acting out. That everyone else does not revolve around him and his bad behavior.

Albert might be mad about it, but down deep he's mad because it's HUMILIATING him, and that can be used positively.

I think the notion that this is a distraction to the football team is wrong. I think it may occupy a sliver in the back of some minds out there, but I'll choose to believe tyhat the overwhelming majority of players and coaches have their minds clearly on their own futures.

Albert is just a guy in street clothes over on field B.. distracting coaches in Tennessee

I am 100% behind the coaches on this provided they know the limits of how long they need to press it,, and I think they do.

~Bang

[TerpSkin]

Thank you, Bang... that was really all I was saying. I guess my words were such that people got the false impression I was questioning the test and criticizing Shanahan and defending Haynesworth. None of which are true. I just pointed out that the test is brilliantly ambiguous in that it is simple for the coach to convincingly say, "the other players did it and other teams do it and this is simply about conditioning" -- while at the same time being ever so slightly stricter with the guy who chose not to play ball in the offseason.

My point is that there are probably a couple other Redskins who would also not pass the test on the first try who are practicing with the team. And that's good -- they deserve it for being good teammates who came to OTAs and respected the coaches and the team's goals. But, that also means that this is not strictly about conditioning like we are being told by Shanahan. And I am happy Shanahan is not saying there is a punitive element to this even though there is.