Where does Kobe Bryant rank among NBA greats?

[Kosher Ham]

I think it's hard to put Kobe near the top.. He's got 4 championships, but only 1 as the prime guy.

I'd put him behind Dr. J, behind Issaiah, maybe just ahead of Dominique.

Nowhere near Bird, Magic, Karem, or Russel.

We can say Oscar was one of the best ever too. He only has one ring, but clearly is one of the best ever. Top ten.

And Dr. J, Isiah, and Dominique ? Better than Kobe or just behind ? Please. Dr. J has one ring (Thanks Moses), 'Nique has none, and Isiah has only 2 (Never the MVP of the league either). Not to say they were not great players and certainly top 50 of all time, but not better than Kobe.

It's not about the rings. It's about the players.

[JMS]

Best PF: A case could be made for any of the following: Malone (despite being an utter douche), KG, Duncan; Barkley not too far behind; Rodman was a beast.

I disagree... I don't think you can make an argument for any of those guys over Duncan.

Malone put up great numbers, but never won a championship.... Never even got to the finals did he? I'd put Barkley as the #2 guy... he's got career numbers and a league MVP, but again no titles..

I think KG would need a few more championships to be considered above duncan... KG though isn't the dominant guy he once was.... You could make the case he wasn't a domanant all around player even when he won his one championship two years ago. He wasn't the primary offensive threat..Peirce was... I'm not even sure KG was the #3 scorer in the playoffs for the celtics that year...

Duncan with 4 nba championships... each where he was the main guy, and sole dominant player on his team.... Clearly Duncan is the most dominant power forward ever. He's got the numbers, the championships, and he didn't play in anybodies shadow while doing it.

3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)

2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)

NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)

12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)

9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)

3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)

8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)

Rodman might be the best defensive PF... But it's hard to consider him in the elite class with so many holes in his game. Rodman was basically a really really good role player... I wouldn't compare him to the best ever allround... I don't think an intelligent argument can be made to do so.

[JMS]

We can say Oscar was one of the best ever too. He only has one ring, but clearly is one of the best ever. Top ten.

And Dr. J, Isiah, and Dominique ? Better than Kobe or just behind ? Please. Dr. J has one ring (Thanks Moses), 'Nique has none, and Isiah has only 2 (Never the MVP of the league either). Not to say they were not great players and certainly top 50 of all time, but not better than Kobe.

It's not about the rings. It's about the players.

It's hard to give Kobe credit for his 3 championship which he won with Shaq.... Any of the players I mentioned could have won those championships being the second banana behind Shaq.....

I give Kobe credit for 1+ nba championship.... I think he needs another one or two championships to solitify him as an elite player in NBA history.

[Kosher Ham]

I disagree... I don't think you can make an argument for any of those guys over Duncan.

Malone put up great numbers, but never won a championship.... Never even got to the finals did he? I'd put Barkley as the #2 guy... he's got career numbers and a league MVP, but again no titles..

I think KG would need a few more championships to be considered above duncan... KG though isn't the dominant guy he once was.... You could make the case he wasn't a domanant all around player even when he won his one championship two years ago.

Duncan with 4 nba championships... each where he was the main guy, and sole dominant player on his team.... Clearly Duncan is the most dominant power forward ever.

Rodman might be the best defensive PF... But it's hard to consider him in the elite class with so many holes in his game.

Malone was a 2 time MVP, and went to the Finals twice !!! Are you serious ? He would have had more if not for Jordan, Bird, etc.

[StillUnknown]

It's hard to give Kobe credit for his 3 championship which he won with Shaq.... Any of the players I mentioned could have won those championships being the second banana behind Shaq.....

I give Kobe credit for 1+ nba championship.... I think he needs another one or two championships to solitify him as an elite player in NBA history.

it wasn't like Kobe was some scrub and just along for the ride with Shaq

to not give him credit for those 3 rings is ridiculous.

[Kosher Ham]

It's hard to give Kobe credit for his 3 championship which he won with Shaq.... Any of the players I mentioned could have won those championships being the second banana behind Shaq.....

I give Kobe credit for 1+ nba championship.... I think he needs another one or two championships to solitify him as an elite player in NBA history.

So I can eliminate Bird because of Parrish, McHale, and DJ ?

I can eliminate 'Nique because he has NONE ?

I can eliminate Isaih because of Rodman (who you underrate), Vinny, Salley, and Laimbeer ?

Note to you...Shaq didn't win one without Kobe either until he met up with Wade who is one of the best in the game right now.

[@DCGoldPants]

Nobody wins a title alone.

The Lakers had Kobe/Shaq....Kobe/Pau. The Spurs had Duncan/Robinson.....Duncan/Parker/Gino....Heat had Wade/Shaq

[frommd]

it wasn't like Kobe was some scrub and just along for the ride with Shaq

to not give him credit for those 3 rings is ridiculous.

To be truthful, I don't think the Lakers come out of the West those years without Kobe. Spurs would have knocked them off as Duncan/Robinson more than matched Shaq. Kobe was dominant against the Spurs.

[ACW]

What about Robinson in 98-99? 16 and 10.

02-03, Parker had 15.5.

04-05, Parker and Ginobili both had 16 or more.

06-07, Parker 18.6 Manu 16.5.

[deejaydana]

It's hard to give Kobe credit for his 3 championship which he won

Actually it's not hard at all to give him credit (though it sounds like it might be for you).

[ABQCOWBOY]

Kareem, Magic, Larry, Russell and Jordan. I would say that Kobe is in the second tier along with Wilt, Dr.J, The Big O, and The Dream. I think that Duncan is in the 3rd tier of players along with West, Shaq, Karl Malone and Moses Malone.

[frommd]

Kareem, Magic, Larry, Russell and Jordan. I would say that Kobe is in the second tier along with Wilt, Dr.J, The Big O, and The Dream. I think that Duncan is in the 3rd tier of players along with West, Shaq, Karl Malone and Moses Malone.

This list looks about right. Although, I'm not sure about Dr. J in tier two.

[JMS]

So I can eliminate Bird because of Parrish, McHale, and DJ ?

If parrish, Mchale or DJ ever outscored, out assisted, or were seen as the primary guy in any of the Celtic Championships you could eliminate Bird.... But of coarse they didn't and weren't, which is why bird is still in the top 10... probable top 5. Bird was the focal point of the celtics in the 80's... He was their best and most dominant player, the player which they ran the offense through... Just like Shaq was the focal point of the Laker teams he won championships with.

I think Shaq, Karem, Wilt and Magic should be ahead of Kobe as NBA greats or even Laker greats.

I can eliminate 'Nique because he has NONE ?

You can eliminate Nique from best ever discussion... I'm not sure you can eliminate him from better than Kobe discussion... I think Kobe is ahead of Nique, but it's arguable.

I can eliminate Isaih because of Rodman (who you underrate), Vinny, Salley, and Laimbeer ?

, Rodman, Salley and Vinny?.... hell they didn't even start for both of the Piston championship teams...

Isaiah was arguable the best player on the Detroit teams which won two championships.... If you had to pick another player I would have picked Joe Dumars the current GM of the Pistons. He was the second or perhaps arguable best player on the Detroit Bad Boy teams.

Note to you...Shaq didn't win one without Kobe either until he met up with Wade who is one of the best in the game right now.

But Shaq was the focal points of the lakers championship teams, Not Kobe..... Shaq had been to the finals before Kobe.. It's like detracting from Majic's championships because he had Karem, Or Jordan because he had Pipen...

I agree Kobe is more than a second banana... He's got 1 championship as the main guy... That makes him more than say Pipen, but it doesn't make him in the running for top 10 all time. He would need another 1 or 2 championships for that.... Especially since it was his ego which probable cost the lakers a few championships in the interum.

[DCranon21]

It's hard to give Kobe credit for his 3 championship which he won with Shaq.... Any of the players I mentioned could have won those championships being the second banana behind Shaq.....

I give Kobe credit for 1+ nba championship.... I think he needs another one or two championships to solitify him as an elite player in NBA history.

Come on JMS, Kobe was the main cause the Lakers repeated in 2000-01 season. Shaq missed 20% of the season, and in the playoff's, Kobe and Fisher beat down the Spurs in the WCF that season. That team went 15-1 in the playoffs. Without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't of been a champion 3 straight years and vice versa.

[JMS]

To be truthful, I don't think the Lakers come out of the West those years without Kobe. Spurs would have knocked them off as Duncan/Robinson more than matched Shaq. Kobe was dominant against the Spurs.

Agreed, but was he the dominant player on those teams? I don't think so. Shaq was the leader and face of the lakers... the offense ran through Shaq...

Nobody wins mulitple championships withough very good players around him... But we typically don't give equal credit to the good players and the great players. Shaq was the heart and soul of those laker teams.

[frommd]

Agreed, but was he the dominant player on those teams? I don't think so. Shaq was the leader and face of the lakers... the offense ran through Shaq...

Nobody wins mulitple championships withough very good players around him... But we typically don't give equal credit to the good players and the great players. Shaq was the heart and soul of those laker teams.

When that team had the game on the line, who had the ball in their hands?

[ACW]

Wilt and Russell (and maybe Kareem, with Hakeem and even Shaq not too far behind) are the same tier.

[JMS]

Come on JMS, Kobe was the main cause the Lakers repeated in 2000-01 season. Shaq missed 20% of the season, and in the playoff's, Kobe and Fisher beat down the Spurs in the WCF that season. That team went 15-1 in the playoffs. Without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't of been a champion 3 straight years and vice versa.

It's nice we don't have to be subjective about it... Because I fear your hind site is 20/20..

Shaq was the NBA finals MVP in 2000.

Shaq was the NBA finals MVP in 2001.

Kobe was always in Shaq's shadow in that franchise... Which is why Kobe engineered the fanchise being blown up, likely costing the franchise a few championships...

Not acts one typically associates with an all time best player.

[ABQCOWBOY]

This list looks about right. Although, I'm not sure about Dr. J in tier two.

Certainly, any of these guys could move up or down just depending on a person's point of view. For me, I can't put him before any of the top 5 and I really believe he was Jordan/Kobe before there was a Jordan or Kobe. Dr. J was amazing to be sure. He was every bit as good as Jordan was when he was young IMO. The difference, at least to me, was that the game was different then. As far as players, they were very close IMO.

[frommd]

Certainly, any of these guys could move up or down just depending on a person's point of view. For me, I can't put him before any of the top 5 and I really believe he was Jordan/Kobe before there was a Jordan or Kobe. Dr. J was amazing to be sure. He was every bit as good as Jordan was when he was young IMO. The difference, at least to me, was that the game was different then. As far as players, they were very close IMO.

Dr. J was amazing. But, he never had the ball-handling or jump shot of the other two.

[JMS]

Wilt and Russell (and maybe Kareem, with Hakeem and even Shaq not too far behind) are the same tier.

I would argue Russell is in a class all by himself..... I would argue all the rest are great top 10-15 talents worthy of having championship teams built around.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wilt and Russell (and maybe Kareem, with Hakeem and even Shaq not too far behind) are the same tier.

Kareem was better then Wilt or Russell IMO. Hakeem really should have been a Power Forward to me but as a Center, he was dominating. Right now, today, nobody could match up with him IMO. Much better then given credit for to me.

[StillUnknown]

Kobe was always in Shaq's shadow in that franchise... Which is why Kobe engineered the fanchise being blown up, likely costing the franchise a few championships...

Not acts one typically associates with an all time best player.

you still believe that myth?

[gbear]

Robertson, Wilt, Russell, MJ, and Kareem are guys I would put above him. Maybe Magic was better.

Next level which I think he is currently a part of includes Magic if not above, Bird, Lebron. I think Duncan and /or Wade may get to this level, but only if he has a few more great years.

[ACW]

Wilt averaged 30 and 20.