So where does Drew Brees stand now?

[TotalRecall]

As I posted in the manning thread, the play clearly shows that an in-stride pass to Collie would have netted a first down and more. Manning chose to throw to Wayne, though Collie was already making his way underneath (but past the marker.) That was a Jason campbell moment for Manning.

Manning also threw, pretty much, a pick in the end zone towards the end and was fortunate it was one foot out of bounds. But this thread is about Brees.

The slant to Wayne was the first read. I think it was just a 2 step drop quick play.

And the ball was tipped out of bounds.

[TotalRecall]

I'm very interested to see how the next few years plays out. Obviously, I'd like the Skins to win all of those SBs but even if they did, that still leaves a very top-heavy AFC.

This is the year, I believe, where the NFC has surpassed the AFC. last year, the Cards really had that game in the bag but dropped the ball. And the Saints SoS was rated higher this year than the Colts. The Saints and Vikings both had a chance to beat any AFC representative, and would likely have been favorites against any team not the Colts. And depending on the team, it's possible the Cards or Packers could be viewed similarly. There are some weak teams in the NFC but it has more depth, though with Warner out and Favre possibly out, it may drop back again.

Qbs make a difference, eh?

Isn't this thread about Brees?

[darklight1216]

It sounds like you have a personal agenda. I call it like I see it.

Personal agenda... okay, I'll play along, what is my so-called agenda?

Yeah, I can see where you blame Manning for the loss.

When did I say that the loss was entirely his fault?

The Colts were the inferior team through and through, but I don't recall the defense throwing a critical, game ending interception.

[Titaw]

I'm Gay for Drew Brees. The fact that he got his hype-chant from US (Marines) out of respect, makes me love the guy. He chose New Orleans over Miami. The man is a great dude and his jersey will be the first non-skins football jersey I am going to own because I am a huge fan of the man.

[darklight1216]

I'm Gay for Drew Brees. The fact that he got his hype-chant from US (Marines) out of respect, makes me love the guy. He chose New Orleans over Miami. The man is a great dude and his jersey will be the first non-skins football jersey I am going to own because I am a huge fan of the man.

First of all :ew.

I didn't know that he got the chant from the Marines. Last year it was 300, this year the military, what's next?

I'm sick of NO and all their bandwagon fans.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

brees is pretty much a lock for canton now. if he continues to play this way for even 2 more seasons itll be a lock for sure.

[Titaw]

First of all :ew.

I didn't know that he got the chant from the Marines. Last year it was 300, this year the military, what's next?

I'm sick of NO and all their bandwagon fans.

Definately got it from the Marines. He visited the Marines in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and did PT with them. He adapted one of our Cadence chants to hype up the team before each game. Dude is a great guy, absolutely deserving of a Super Bowl win and MVP!

[dallasfan]

The top 4 guys

1.) Drew Brees

2.) Peyton Manning

3.) Tom Brady

4.) Ben Rothlisberger

These guys are ahead of the pack, although looking ahead, I expect Brees to drop off before these guys considering as he gets older, he'll lose arm strength and has less to spare than the other guys.

[112row2]

I'll ladly give you Brady and maybe Brees,

but...

Jeff George, Todd Collins, Herbstreit, Gibran Hamdan, Antwaan Randle-El.....

can't think of 1 GREAT QB from Mich State, Penn State, Ohio State, Northwestern, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana, or Wisconsin...

and a "bad" defense? I'd argue that between the ST and D, the game was won..

not hating, just a thought

[Hiro]

5. Aaron Rodgers. He got better with every game this year. He could be the best QB in the league sooner than later.

I agree 100%. When you consider the fact that he's only 26 and just completed his 2nd year starting, the numbers he's put up look that much more impressive. In addition to that, he's really won me over with how he managed to keep his team in games AND put up big numbers, despite having one of the worst offensive lines in the league at points this past season.

He's easily top 5 right now.

[darklight1216]

I agree 100%. When you consider the fact that he's only 26 and just completed his 2nd year starting, the numbers he's put up look that much more impressive. In addition to that, he's really won me over with how he managed to keep his team in games AND put up big numbers, despite having one of the worst offensive lines in the league at points this past season.

He's easily top 5 right now.

"Easily" top five right now? I don't know about that. Brady, Brees, and Manning are quite obviously better and arguments could be made for Worthlessburger, Rivers, and yes even Romo sits to pee (with Schaub and D-Mac possibilties as well).

Rodgers has some flashy stats (and great receivers) and he's very promising for someone so young, and you could argue that he belongs in the elilte group; but he hasn't actually done anything to establish himself as "easily" being a sure-fire top five, imho.

[PokerPacker]

"Easily" top five right now? I don't know about that. Brady, Brees, and Manning are quite obviously better and arguments could be made for Worthlessburger, Rivers, and yes even Romo sits to pee (with Schaub and D-Mac possibilties as well).

Rodgers has some flashy stats (and great receivers) and he's very promising for someone so young, and you could argue that he belongs in the elilte group; but he hasn't actually done anything to establish himself as "easily" being a sure-fire top five, imho.

watch him over the course of a season, he'll win you over . He's a leader who refuses to throw his teammates under the bus. In the early half of the season when he was getting sacked left and right, the media was giving him every opportunity to blame the offensive line, but he refused to do so and praised them instead.

[Cwoolery]

watch him over the course of a season, he'll win you over . He's a leader who refuses to throw his teammates under the bus. In the early half of the season when he was getting sacked left and right, the media was giving him every opportunity to blame the offensive line, but he refused to do so and praised them instead.

So that makes him a top 5 QB? Not throwing your teammates under the bus? Looks like Manning should have been out of the top 5 after Pittsburgh bounced them from the playoffs in 05.

[PokerPacker]

So that makes him a top 5 QB? Not throwing your teammates under the bus? Looks like Manning should have been out of the top 5 after Pittsburgh bounced them from the playoffs in 05.

those were two different statements. Watching him over the course of the season and his leadership abilities. He puts up the stats on the field and he's a lockerroom leader who gets his teammates to want to play for him.

4000+ yards in each of his seasons as a starter, I believe he currently is the holder of the lowest INT ratio, and he was number 4 in passing touchdowns, number 2 total TDs, number 4 in passing yards, number 2 total yards, number 4 in yards per attempt, he's the best in the business when you give him the ball on 3rd down with a QB rating of 134.4, and he was number 4 in the league in QB rating overall.

If all those numbers aren't enough to say he's one of the top 5 in the league, I'd like to see which 5 QBs outperformed him.

[Hiro]

So that makes him a top 5 QB? Not throwing your teammates under the bus? Looks like Manning should have been out of the top 5 after Pittsburgh bounced them from the playoffs in 05.

He didn't say that, that's just a particular plus about Rodgers.

The fact is that while getting sacked 50 times in a 16 game season (that's averaging about 3 sacks per game, not including QB pressures) he still put up absolutely ridiculous numbers. And keep in mind that this is only his second season as a starter.

He's freaking good, and the only QB's absolutely I'd take over him TODAY are Peyton, Brees, and Rivers. I'd take Brady pre-knee injury over Rodgers, but I would take Rodgers over the Brady we saw in 2009 easily.

[darklight1216]

those were two different statements. Watching him over the course of the season and his leadership abilities. He puts up the stats on the field and he's a lockerroom leader who gets his teammates to want to play for him.

4000+ yards in each of his seasons as a starter, I believe he currently is the holder of the lowest INT ratio, and he was number 4 in passing touchdowns, number 2 total TDs, number 4 in passing yards, number 2 total yards, number 4 in yards per attempt, he's the best in the business when you give him the ball on 3rd down with a QB rating of 134.4, and he was number 4 in the league in QB rating overall.

If all those numbers aren't enough to say he's one of the top 5 in the league, I'd like to see which 5 QBs outperformed him.

If numbers told the full story, Matt Schaub would have to be in the discussion, but they don't. Playing 8 games [that's half the season for those of you keeping score at home] against Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa, Chicago, St. Louis, and Seattle probably helped those stats just a teensy little bit, but that's nothing against him.

Aaron Rodgers is a great quarterback. He's easily top ten, and I'm pretty high on him, believe me. But I haven't seen him do enough in the last two years to consider him to be better than Brady, Brees, Manning, Worthlessburger, or Rivers (though, that one is debateable). I do like him alot more than the last two, though.

However you can certainly say that Rodgers was good in 2009, he was one of the best in 2009, in 2009...

[SWFLSkins]

He is standing with the Lombardi on Mickey Mouse Blvd. , what else matters right now.

[darklight1216]

He is standing with the Lombardi on Mickey Mouse Blvd. , what else matters right now.

Oh yeah, we were talking aobut Brees, weren't we?

[PokerPacker]

If numbers told the full story, Matt Schaub would have to be in the discussion, but they don't. Playing 8 games [that's half the season for those of you keeping score at home] against Cleveland, Detroit, Tampa, Chicago, St. Louis, and Seattle probably helped those stats just a teensy little bit, but that's nothing against him.

It is true he played against some soft teams, but at the same time, he did get sat on the bench for a bit of time because they had the victories in hand. As a matter of fact, if he hadn't been sat in the 4th quarter of the Cardinals game, he would've had more throwing yards than any QB in Green Bay history over a single season (he was 30 or so yards shy). Even having spent a bit of time on the bench he still surpassed Brett Favre's highest yardage in a season as a Packer. Considering Favre had been playing here for 16 years and Rodgers surpassed what Favre did in only his second says something.

Aaron Rodgers is a great quarterback. He's easily top ten, and I'm pretty high on him, believe me. But I haven't seen him do enough in the last two years to consider him to be better than Brady, Brees, Manning, Worthlessburger, or Rivers (though, that one is debateable). I do like him alot more than the last two, though.

However you can certainly say that Rodgers was good in 2009, he was one of the best in 2009, in 2009...

I went ahead and made a spreadsheet of about the top 10 QBs and took their stats from the last two years to see where Rodgers stands amongst that crowd.

QBs included:

Brees

P. Manning

Romo sits to pee

Schaub

Brady

Roethlisberger

Rivers

Favre

Warner

Rodgers

So where does Rodgers stand?

Passing yards: 8472 (4)

Total Yards: 8995 (2)

Passing TDs: 58 (4)

Total TDs: 67 (2)

Yards per Attept: 7.87 (5)

INTs: 20 (1)T *not including Brady because of an incomplete season

INT %: .0186 (1)

When you look at those numbers, you could make the argument (not that I'm necessarily making the argument) that he's possibly the number two QB behind Brees, considering that Brees is the only QB with more total yards and TDs than him since Rodgers began playing a starter.

He's got Peyton Manning beat in every one of those categories except passing yards (30 yard difference) and passing TDs (2 TD difference).

Tom Brady? Well he didn't play two seasons ago and he was outperformed by Rodgers last season, so he shouldn't really even be in the conversation until he shows he can return to his former self and outperform Rodgers.

Phillip Rivers? Well he had more passing TDs and a higher YPA, but Rodgers took the lead over him in every other category I measured (except INTs where they were tied for best in the league)

Roethlisberger? Well this one isn't even close. Rodgers has 800 more passing yards, 15 more passing TDs, 1100 more total yards, 20 more total TDs, 7 less INTs, better YPA, better INT%

Oh yeah, we were talking aobut Brees, weren't we?

oh yeah, so we were... so Brees... um... stands as number 1 in the league as of right now. really tough to argue anyone over him right now.

[gunslinger5]

Wherever you want to rank him he may be the most accurate QB ever.

[gortiz]

he's damn good ... but not even close to being an all timer.

one thing about bree's man ... he's feast or famine, when he is going bad he GOES REAL BAD. He is also not that great away from home ... see the stats.

[darklight1216]

Wherever you want to rank him he may be the most accurate QB ever.

Nope, Chad Pennington is ahead of him. I think Chad is still number one all time.

I went ahead and made a spreadsheet of about the top 10 QBs and took their stats from the last two years to see where Rodgers stands amongst that crowd.

This is where our opinions deviate. I'm not completely disregarding (for instance) Peyton Manning's ten other years in the leauge. I'm not forgetting that he won 3 other MVPs, nor his wins in a decade, playoff appearances, or SB ring.

You're taking Rodgers career (minus a few games) and comparing it to everyone else's last two years. I'm leaning more towards career vs career. (Note: this does not include Carson Palmer types who were once great and took nosedives in recent years)

To each his own, as they say.

When you look at those numbers, you could make the argument (not that I'm necessarily making the argument) that he's possibly the number two QB behind Brees, considering that Brees is the only QB with more total yards and TDs than him since Rodgers began playing a starter.

You certainly can argue that, not that I am. On other hand you could look at things like wins... or you could say that one or two seasons does not negate several productive seasons by the other guys (which as I've said, is what I generally support.)

I don't think that AR has enough pass attempts to qualify for the official NFL records.

He's got Peyton Manning beat in every one of those categories except passing yards (30 yard difference) and passing TDs (2 TD difference).

See the beginning of my reply to your post. It might be worth mentioning the fourteen wins in a row that Peyton and the Colts slung together.

Tom Brady? Well he didn't play two seasons ago and he was outperformed by Rodgers last season, so he shouldn't really even be in the conversation until he shows he can return to his former self and outperform Rodgers.

That's one way to look at it, I suppose. On the other hand, one could point out the fact that Rodger does not light a candle to Brady's Hall of Fame career.

Brady's numbers were pretty typical for him. He won his division, regular season games, playoff games, and the Big Game with those kind of numbers.

Brady won the SB in his second year. Unlike Peyton Manning, Rodgers does not have the "He had a good defense defense," exuse.

If we're going to take the "In 2009..." approach, it might also be worth mentioning that Brady had to play the number one passing defense twice, the number two passing defense twice, and the fourth, fifth, and sixth best passing defenses in the league last season. Throw in a game against the tenth best passing defense in the nfl (Rodgers faced them once as well) and Tom Brady spent half of his season passing against the best passing defenses that league had to offer. Now I'm not saying that this necessarily affected the number ofwins, but they might have had a little bit of an effect on his stats.

Phillip Rivers? Well he had more passing TDs and a higher YPA, but Rodgers took the lead over him in every other category I measured (except INTs where they were tied for best in the league)

Let's not forget completion percentage. I believe that Rivers was higher in that category as well. We might also mention the fact that Rivers has never thrown three or more interceptions in his entire career -or so I hear- (and he's had far more opportunities to do so) and that he won 11 straight games in 2009 and has never lost a game in December. So he's got the stats and wins, I think.

Roethlisberger? Well this one isn't even close. Rodgers has 800 more passing yards, 15 more passing TDs, 1100 more total yards, 20 more total TDs, 7 less INTs, better YPA, better INT%

Does he have more game winning drives in the Superbowl during those seasons?

All in all, I think our opions differ because we are looking at this from two different angles. In my case, I would say that Unitas > Rodgers, but you might say that Unitas is dead and therefore Rodgers is better.

Also: that Brees guy is now No. 2 all time in postseason passer rating (103.7), behind the only guy who sports a ring for every finger on his throwing hand, Bart Starr (104.8).

[veteranskinsfan]

I have been a huge Drew Bree's fan before last season started. I was irritated that Vinny did not even think about getting him a few years ago after San Diego let him go. I think Drew Bree's is one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the league now. The Saints will be doing well with him for several more years. He is a "franchise quarterback" in every sense of the term.

[PokerPacker]

All in all, I think our opions differ because we are looking at this from two different angles. In my case, I would say that Unitas > Rodgers, but you might say that Unitas is dead and therefore Rodgers is better.

Okay, I see. You're taking an all-time perspective. I'm simply looking at who's the best right now. In that case, you're right that Rodgers has not played near enough to be looking at where he stands all time.

[Riggins77]

He's Steve Young with some weird **** on his face.

That's just ****ing rude man. Why make fun of someone's birth mark? Childish if you ask me.

I think he is great, but it's hard to say where he will rank until I see more of what he can do really.