Let's Debate: Tony Pike

[cincyfan]

Sounds like an utter waste of a precious draft pick.

I second this. I live in the Cincinnati area and would not use any of our draft picks on Tony Pike. I would keep an eye on Zach Collaros for 2012, the kid who played half the season for the Bearcats this year. Only a sophomore but showed real poise and mobility.

[Tay]

Umm. Naw, I'll pass.

[jflow78]

I believe McCoy is a legit franchise QB, on Bradford and Clausen's level, and a team that takes him in the #2nd or even the late first will be getting very good value.

I think this is a great QB class. No big armed hulking morons like Jamarcus Russell was, and Jake Locker will be. Just solid, intelligent, fundamentally sound guys with good work ethic who can be successful if developed well.

I tend to agree with you on McCoy. I think he's a guy that, if he were pro ready right now, he'd be a high first round prospect, but due to some things that can be taught at the next level, or worked on in the weight room, he's going to be a guy that is more ready in year 2. That's why, I feel it's almost comparable to taking a guy that's ready to step in right away at #4. All the rumors are that Shanahan wants to let him sit for the first year, behind JC. If whoever we pick at QB is sitting for a year, might as well take a guy that has similar talent and tools, but needs that year to be ready, rather than have Bradford or Clausen (supposedly pro ready) and making them sit a year when they don't need it. I think after a year of coaching he'll be just as ready as those two.

That's, of course, assuming we're going to make the rookie sit, like we've heard the plan is. If we're not, then I fear for Bradford's shoulder (since our OL is like a siv), maybe Clausen can take a pounding.

[daveakl]

I hate these arguments that say since Schaub was projected as a 5th round and third stringer that Pike who is projected as the same will turn out like Schaub.

While it would be amazing to hit on a guy late in the draft that turns into a starting QB for many years to come, the simple fact is the vast majority of QB's projected to be 2nd or 3rd stringers become that or worse.

[jflow78]

I hate these arguments that say since Schaub was projected as a 5th round and third stringer that Pike who is projected as the same will turn out like Schaub.

While it would be amazing to hit on a guy late in the draft that turns into a starting QB for many years to come, the simple fact is the vast majority of QB's projected to be 2nd or 3rd stringers become that or worse.

Sooooooooo, you don't think it's effective to bank on a guy, in the 7th round, sitting for a couple years behind a starter and then leading the team to 3 SBs when the starter gets knocked out for a whole season?

I think every 7th rounder has potential to become the next Tom Brady..........except they suck usually.

[John Lydon]

He is lazy, and has a weak arm. No thanks

Do you have an inside source to back up the lazy claim? I sure didn't see that mentioned in the scouting report. I also watched a majority of Cincy's games last year and sure didn't see any indicator of laziness on the field.

P.S. - Here's a few similar scouting reports I found that sound like Pikes.

"Poor build, very skinny and narrow, lacks mobility and the ability to avoid the rush, lacks a really strong arm." - Tom Brady

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/04/60minutes/main1014961.shtml

Is not the runner, scrambler or improviser his father was as a rookie. A little tight in the hips and stiff. Not naturally smooth and fluid. Lacks a great arm. Can't throw off-balance with zip as Favre or Elway can. Needs to set his feet to zip the ball. Does not throw a really tight spiral much of the time, and the ball will wobble at times. Was taught to pump his feet and to keep them moving at almost all times in college and also to slightly underthrow the deep ball so his receiver could come back and make a play on it. Thus, he may need to break some old habits. - Peyton Manning

http://www.peytonmanning18.com/bio.html

These aren't my words these are pro scouts words. Not saying anything just pointing out some eery similarities.

[bu7ch]

I'm not sure which games the scout watched but he scrambled all the time and quite well. His arm is not weak but it's probably avg at best.

Has pretty good short to medium accuracy but from what I remember he leaves long throws up in the air too long.

Accuracy on the run? Seen him run to his left and hit a diving receiver at the sideline.

Lazy? Psssh that's just pure jibberish.

Check out around 1:45. Is that a statue with poor accuracy on the run?

[Looking For Number Four]

I second this. I live in the Cincinnati area and would not use any of our draft picks on Tony Pike. I would keep an eye on Zach Collaros for 2012, the kid who played half the season for the Bearcats this year. Only a sophomore but showed real poise and mobility.

Living there is not a valid argument, could you please point out specifics... Could we also eliminate the um, naw...etc.

Thank you bu7ch and Lydon, excellent references and links.... Anyone have something similar to prove the opposite?

[Looking For Number Four]

Would rather have Lefevour if we are picking a qb outside of the 1st rd

Could you be more specific? Why? Certainly not stats or wins...

[Metalhead]

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010tpike.php

Strengths: Good height; can comfortably see over line

Very quick decision-maker

Great football intelligence

Nice touch on the football; clean spiral

Has an adequate sixth sense for pass rush

Takes what the defense gives him; doesn't force throws

Solid accuracy down the field

Absolutely outstanding timing; throws ball before receiver even gets into break

Good character

Weaknesses: Lacks some bulk in his body frame

Extremely weak arm strength

Lacks agility and athleticism; can't evade a pass rush

Somewhat of a statue in the pocket

Floats deep ball a little too much

Not a very good passer on the run

Throws difficult routes - but with unimpressive velocity/talent

Highly limited skill set

Competitiveness hasn't been tested yet

Older than the average prospect (will be a 24-year-old rookie)

Huh? I see a LOT of contradictions in there. This "scouting report" is a joke.

Sixth sense of a pass rush, yet can't evade rush?

Solid accuracy down field, yet floats the deep ball?

Doesn't force throws, yet throws difficult routes? LOL

[jflow78]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgwWl74wzcU&feature=related

Pike is on at about 3:52. He throws a really nice 35 yarder into the end zone (and leading his receiver), it was pretty impressive, especially since that's not supposed to be one of his strong points (of course, this WAS a highlight video, not gametape, but it still looked solid). I don't think his arm strength looks THAT bad actually. There's one 40 yarder he throws that got about 20 feet off the ground, but I don't think that's unusual, even for rocket arm guys. He leads his receivers nicely, and it shows him avoiding the rush a couple times, stepping up in the pocket and then finding a good opening to run through.

This one's got a couple of highlights too, you have to fast forward to them though, since it's an interview.

This is Todd McShay talking about how Pike throws accurately on the run and can evade pass rush.

I don't think he looked all that bad. I'd be fine with the pickup.

[cjrugger]

If youre talking about in the 2nd round, no chance

In the 4th round I begin to become interested

[Spartacus87]

Pass, even in the 4th. You can get a solid guard or center prospect in the 4th round still.

You can post all the Youtube highlight clips of him possible, he played in a very QB friendly offensive system and looked terrible anytime he faced a legitimate defense.

And physically he's a trainwreck for the next level, with below average arm strength and the lankiest frame imaginable for a QB.

Robinson and Lefevour are both better prospects than Tony Pike.

[Looking For Number Four]

Pass, even in the 4th. You can get a solid guard or center prospect in the 4th round still.

You can post all the Youtube highlight clips of him possible, he played in a very QB friendly offensive system and looked terrible anytime he faced a legitimate defense.

And physically he's a trainwreck for the next level, with below average arm strength and the lankiest frame imaginable for a QB.

Robinson and Lefevour are both better prospects than Tony Pike.

PEOPLE!!!!! Please, please, please use specific examples and make serious arguments.

This is Tom Brady at Michigan:

http://stats.ath.umich.edu/football/cmaster.php?pkey=83

Pike played and excelled against Florida his final game, Brady did the same against Alabama. Both flashed potential throughout the season, both were/are tall and lanky QBs who lack/lacked mobility. Matt Schaub fit this mold to the inth degree as well.

Why is Lefevour or Robinson better? What do/did they do better?

Pike did not look terrible against FLA in the bowl game, his defense look aweful. He actually did not throw a single interception and threw 3 TDs despite playing the "superstars" Carlos Dunlap, Joe Haden, Bradon Spikes, and Major Wright.

[Looking For Number Four]

Dan Lefevour did not play any team that even remotely compares to Florida, the two that were semi-decent:

Arizona: 18/31 - 108 yards - 0 TD 1 INT

Boston College: 20/34 - 152 yards - 0 TD 1 INT

http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=170586

You have to be kidding me....

Zac Robinson

Georgia: 11/22 - 135 yards - 2 TD 0 INT

Texas: 15/28 - 143 yards - 1 TD 4 INT

Oklahoma: 9/21 - 44 yards - 0 TD 1 INT

Mississippi (Cotton Bowl): 12/21 - 118 yards - 0 TD 4 INT

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174054

You have to be kidding me...

[Koolblue13]

PEOPLE!!!!! Please, please, please use specific examples and make serious arguments.

Once again, it's all stuff people have been posting every time a brand new "let's draft this guy" thread pops up. Search, read catch up.

Pike wanted to quit football, but his dad talked him back into it for the scholarship money. He doesn't like to watch film and doesn't put extra time in.

He just shows up. I think Pike has great natural ability and it's a shame he doesn't care about a football career, but lazy work ethic is the biggest knock about a rookie QB there is IMO.

Personally, I like LeFevour. All he really did was win. It may have been against lower teams, but you can only play who they schedule you. No injury history, hard worker, good release, can move around well, nice deep ball, fast thinker. Great prospect outside of the first round.

[Looking For Number Four]

Once again, it's all stuff people have been posting every time a brand new "let's draft this guy" thread pops up. Search, read catch up.

Pike wanted to quit football, but his dad talked him back into it for the scholarship money. He doesn't like to watch film and doesn't put extra time in.

He just shows up. I think Pike has great natural ability and it's a shame he doesn't care about a football career, but lazy work ethic is the biggest knock about a rookie QB there is IMO.

Personally, I like LeFevour. All he really did was win. It may have been against lower teams, but you can only play who they schedule you. No injury history, hard worker, good release, can move around well, nice deep ball, fast thinker. Great prospect outside of the first round.

Work ethic or not he put up great numbers against one of the top 5 defenses in the country.

LeFevour did not put up numbers. He did play some semi-decent teams as was horrible.

[Spartacus87]

PEOPLE!!!!! Please, please, please use specific examples and make serious arguments.

This is Tom Brady at Michigan:

http://stats.ath.umich.edu/football/cmaster.php?pkey=83

Pike played and excelled against Florida his final game, Brady did the same against Alabama. Both flashed potential throughout the season, both were/are tall and lanky QBs who lack/lacked mobility. Matt Schaub fit this mold to the inth degree as well.

Why is Lefevour or Robinson better? What do/did they do better?

Pike did not look terrible against FLA in the bowl game, his defense look aweful. He actually did not throw a single interception and threw 3 TDs despite playing the "superstars" Carlos Dunlap, Joe Haden, Bradon Spikes, and Major Wright.

2 of his 3 TDs were in complete garbage time when UF was already up 44 to 10 and a lot of the Gators' starters were already starting to celebrate on the sidelines.

Pike also only went 27 for 45 in that game for 170 yards! 3.8 yards per attempt! That's really damn bad, no matter how you slice it. And actually watching him in that game, you would have thought he did even worse.

Last year against VT in the Orange Bowl he went 16 for 33 with 4 INTs and 1 TD.

Dan Lefevour was at least All MAC 1st team three years in a row, already has good size and strength, and played well enough in the Senior Bowl to be named the North's Most Outstanding Player.

[The Rook]

I like Tony Pike (I think the kid has a winner attitude) but I have a tough time with the Okung/Pike deal. I would love to trade down:

San Fran 1st #13 1150, 2nd #49 410, 3rd #79 195. This is the right trade. Mike Singletary should be able to get a premier defensive guy (Suh, McCoy or Berry) and they still have the #17 pick.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=314972

That would give us the #13, #37 and #49. Pike at #49 would be OK.

:helmet:The Rook

[Koolblue13]

Work ethic or not he put up great numbers against one of the top 5 defenses in the country.

LeFevour did not put up numbers. He did play some semi-decent teams as was horrible.

If you look at the bottom of the posts, in the middle, there is a button that says "off/on". If you see a post you want to comment on, when you click reply, it will bring them into the same post, thus cutting down on your multiple posts.

[darrelgreenie]

He recently came up in another thread and I have yet to see a full thread of picking this option apart.

My knowledge of him only from a small sample:

parts of the UC vs Pitt game; UC vs Florida; Senior Bowl practices/game

and of course highlights

He was a very productive QB in college but the things i don't like are: smallish lanky frame, seems to only have an average arm by NFL standards and at the Senior Bowl his release didn't seem as quick or compact as i remembered from what i saw from him earlier.

I wouldn't be against taking him as developmental QB later in the draft 4th round and down; but i would prefer Zac Robinson or Jarrett Brown if all three were available.

[Looking For Number Four]

I like Tony Pike (I think the kid has a winner attitude) but I have a tough time with the Okung/Pike deal. I would love to trade down:

San Fran 1st #13 1150, 2nd #49 410, 3rd #79 195. This is the right trade. Mike Singletary should be able to get a premier defensive guy (Suh, McCoy or Berry) and they still have the #17 pick.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=314972

That would give us the #13, #37 and #49. Pike at #49 would be OK.

:helmet:The Rook

I would not at all be upset by this, if SF would pull the trigger. They have numerous holes as well. We could take Pike with our 4th round pick and use 13, 37, 49, and 79 on the line, LB, DL, whatever...

[The Rook]

I would not at all be upset by this, if SF would pull the trigger. They have numerous holes as well. We could take Pike with our 4th round pick and use 13, 37, 49, and 79 on the line, LB, DL, whatever...

I really don't think he will be there in the fourth round. Now, if he was there at #79, I would pull the trigger (dependent on combine, of course).

:helmet:The Rook

[Looking For Number Four]

I really don't think he will be there in the fourth round. Now, if he was there at #79, I would pull the trigger (dependent on combine, of course).

:helmet:The Rook

He is projecting 4th round, we have the 4th pick in the 4th round, you may be right though. I do not think his risk is worth anything higher, maybe 79. I would prefer to develop Colt and stick with Jason if we were spending a 3rd.

[bu7ch]

Once again, it's all stuff people have been posting every time a brand new "let's draft this guy" thread pops up. Search, read catch up.

Pike wanted to quit football, but his dad talked him back into it for the scholarship money. He doesn't like to watch film and doesn't put extra time in.

He just shows up. I think Pike has great natural ability and it's a shame he doesn't care about a football career, but lazy work ethic is the biggest knock about a rookie QB there is IMO.

Personally, I like LeFevour. All he really did was win. It may have been against lower teams, but you can only play who they schedule you. No injury history, hard worker, good release, can move around well, nice deep ball, fast thinker. Great prospect outside of the first round.

Where, any where please tell me, does it say Pike is lazy and/or wanted to quit football?

The google search I did on Pike quitting football or being lazy has one source - Extremeskins.com.

http://www.google.com/search?q=tony+pike+cincinnati+wanted+to+quit+football&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a