Let's Debate the Spread Offense and Curse of QB

[Looking For Number Four]

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackbusts.php

Please read before commenting if you don't mind, unless you know in great detail many of the facts surrounding the issue...

Shaun King (from spread) stated that problem is that in the spread you throw 12 screens a game and that just is not going to happen in the NFL. He has the highest QB rating in the history of college football and might be as big a bust as Ryan Leaf (bust not from spread), costing TB their 2nd overall pick.

Alex Smith is probably the poster child here, although this year (after shaking off 4 injuries in hist short career) did manage to make Vernon Davis what he was suppose to be. Smith came out of Utah (under Urban Meyer) and worked the spread to almost put Utah in the National Title conversation. Transitioning to the NFL has gone all but smooth, however, let us keep in mind he not exactly had Calvin Johnson or Reggie Wayne and got hit by an array of injuries. I'm interested to see what happens with Crabtree complimenting V-Davis this coming season. He finished last season with a QB rating of 81.5, Jason Campbell finished with 86.4, not exactly light years there. SF gave up 46 sacks, our make shift line only gave up 40, last season.

Listed are three major considerations that need to be addressed when evaluting QBs: offensive line, leadership/intelligence/work ethic, physical tools (arm strength)

Therefore, drafting a QB with are offensive line in complete disarray would probably set him up for failure. Could Shanny's scheme fix this problem pretty quickly without needing Okung, I think so. Are there are a few in fee agency that could also assist in this matter, I think so. Levi Jones (former 1st rounder) actually filled in quite well.

If there is one thing experts rave about both these guys it is there intelligence, work ethic, and leadership. Bradford's performance in the "Red River" showdown against Texas took an extreme amount of moxy and leadership. Clausen played much of the season with a foot injury that required surgery and redundantly demonstrates enormous fire.

Physical tools, beyond the "gimmick system" this is probably the greatest concern of both of these guys.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28162301/

The front office man said Bradford throws like Brady in terms of his quick mind and quick release. Bradford also is extremely accurate and has good arm strength.

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2009/01/nfl_scout_compares_sam_bradfor.html

New York Times, January 9:

One N.F.L. scout, who was granted anonymity because he is not permitted to talk publicly about draft prospects, said Bradford was a "no-brainer" overall No. 1 pick and compared him to Troy Aikman, the first pick in the 1989 draft.

"When you've watched him at Oklahoma over the years, he sticks out like a sore thumb," said the scout. "He's not a nickel-dime, dink-and-dunk guy. He throws those deep balls as good as anyone I've ever seen."

...

"He's got the size, the arm, the feet and the release," said the scout. "He makes good decisions. He seems like a really easy guy to evaluate."

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010sbradford.php

Arm strength is good, but he will struggle to fit ball in tight windows if he doesn't make very quick decisions

Peyton Manning-like accuracy

Outstanding job of anticipating routes

Solid arm strength

Capable of making all the throws

-These are from the same writer, cannot figure out what he is saying....

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=36206

ESPN Insider scouting report, prior to starting college:

Clausen possesses rare polish and comes from a solid quarterback pedigree. At this stage, few players possess his physical traits. Reminds us of John Elway at the high school level when he came out of California, only not quite the same arm strength. Clausen has very good arm strength and shows natural zip on the deep out. Has a quick release and a consistent delivery. Can certainly make all the necessary throws. Uses a quick release to fit passes into tight spots and has a consistent release point.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/195096-comparing-jimmy-clausen-to-brady-quinn

Clausen has the best arm of any Notre Dame quarterback I have ever seen. Quinn has a strong arm too, but we all know Clausen's is better.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/11/21/clausen1128/

-In 2005, SI wrote Clausen as the kid with the golden arm

-Notes that his older borther has second highest passer rating in Tenesse's history, Peyton Manning obviously being at the top

http://www.draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=454

Clausen to me has the look of an NFL quarterback. He's got ideal NFL size, and just watching him throw, there's little to critique. He's got a tight, fast release, good upper body mechanics and more than adequate arm strength. From a technical standpoint, Clausen is excellent at reading defenses and making good decisions on the field.

Really, they are going to need an offensive line that make it happen. Can free agency, 4th pick in 2nd round, and Shanny's scheme make that happen? Maybe. With next year's off-season coupled with that? Certainly. IMO, being able to read defense, make quick precise throws, being a leader with fire, and have a high QB IQ are really what seperates the Brees from the Russell. Both these guys have arms that are far from average along with HUGE leadership, pedigree, stats, and IQ.

[mhearn]

Good reads, hopefully the people in charge make the right decision..but i guess that's asking a lot regardless.

[Cassatt]

Point of correction to the OP -- Colt Brennan holds the NCAA single season QB rating record, not Shaun King. Shaun King's QB rating was only 183.3 - Colt was rated 186.0 in 2006.

[Gregpeck99]

I'm convinced Rams will grab Bradford and Skins get stuck with Clausen. They should be so lucky.

[gunslinger5]

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackbusts.php

Please read before commenting if you don't mind, unless you know in great detail many of the facts surrounding the issue...

Shaun King (from spread) stated that problem is that in the spread you throw 12 screens a game and that just is not going to happen in the NFL. He has the highest QB rating in the history of college football and might be as big a bust as Ryan Leaf (bust not from spread), costing TB their 2nd overall pick.

Ryan Leaf did play in a spread offense. Mike Price was going 4 and 5 wides nearly every down. Leaf wasn't a bust because of the spread but because he was too level-headed and mature for his age.

A spread offense can inflate a QBs passing stats but their raw ability is still displayed on the field. In the case of Brennan quoting Chris Spielman of ESPN "He throws on time, on target and with velocity."

[ArmchairRedskin]

I don't know why people keep talking up Brennan. You all saw what he looked like this past preseason. He looked like raw garbage. I mean, if he was so good then he should have beaten out old man River, Collins. I think it's high time you Colt fans lower your expectations.

[Pedro]

I like how people describe Bradford as intelligent and smart. My accountant is intelligent and smart and if he had the admittedly quick release Bradford has would be just as good when taking into account no calling of own plays or even adjustments.

I do like the 'good arm strength' quote about Bradford. Not sure how old the child would be in order to make a comparison that comes up with strength; arm and good in the same sentence re: Bradford 'cos it doesn't hold with college QBs let alone NFL ones.

Saying that who knows?

[zCommander]

I don't know why people keep talking up Brennan. You all saw what he looked like this past preseason. He looked like raw garbage. I mean, if he was so good then he should have beaten out old man River, Collins. I think it's high time you Colt fans lower your expectations.

You know what, I have no idea either. But if you look into my avatar eye you might be able to see the present and the future.

[DGREENHULK]

I don't know why people keep talking up Brennan. You all saw what he looked like this past preseason. He looked like raw garbage. I mean, if he was so good then he should have beaten out old man River, Collins. I think it's high time you Colt fans lower your expectations.

I think the MAJORITY of the Colt fans have realized that Colt might not be the the answer and have thrown their support behind Bradford or some other QB not named JC. They are smart enough to see that if the Skins do take a QB in the 1st then the chance that Colt sees the field or is even a part of the team is slim to NONE...

[Ashburn Dave]

I don't know why people keep talking up Brennan. You all saw what he looked like this past preseason. He looked like raw garbage. I mean, if he was so good then he should have beaten out old man River, Collins. I think it's high time you Colt fans lower your expectations.

I'm not necessarily a Colt fan but didn't he look garbage this year due to his torn hamstring and hip injury?

[corrupt3d]

Ryan Leaf did play in a spread offense. Mike Price was going 4 and 5 wides nearly every down. Leaf wasn't a bust because of the spread but because he was too level-headed and mature for his age.

A spread offense can inflate a QBs passing stats but their raw ability is still displayed on the field. In the case of Brennan quoting Chris Spielman of ESPN "He throws on time, on target and with velocity."

Actually Leaf busted because he WASNT level-headed or mature.

You know what, I have no idea either. But if you look into my avatar eye you might be able to see the present and the future.

Nothing like a photoshopped picture to tell the future

[TDColt]

I think the MAJORITY of the Colt fans have realized that Colt might not be the the answer and have thrown their support behind Bradford or some other QB not named JC. They are smart enough to see that if the Skins do take a QB in the 1st then the chance that Colt sees the field or is even a part of the team is slim to NONE...

I for one think Colt IS the answer IF he can stay healthy. But I agree with you that his chances are slim and none IF they draft a QB. I also seen Bradford play and I don't think he is any better than Colt.

[gorebd82]

A couple of thoughts that I've had:

1. I think one thing to think about that might actually help Bradford, if we draft him, are that it seems like Mike Shannahan might be looking to re-invent his offense. Reading how he spent time at Florida and with the New England Patriots tells me that he's looking to heavily incorporate spread principles in his new offense. This might help Bradford's transition into the league. We've seen how a little creativity with the spread has helped Alex Smith in San Francisco this season. Another thing that should somewhat help Bradford is that Oklahoma runs a lot of plays from under center and with play action so it won't be completely new to him. Sam Bradford actually might be the perfect QB for what Shanny wants to do.

2. In the Walterfootball article they mention that a year on the bench could really be a help to Stafford. I think this is a really big consideration about Bradford because I really don't expect to see him on the field as a rookie. That time on the bench should help address 2 of the 3 areas that the article mentions. It should give time for our offensive line to improve and time for Bradford to learn the NFL offense. He already has strong intangibles so if the year on the bench can strengthen the other two areas, then his chance of success should be greatly increased.

[Rypien1191]

To the OP...it wouldn't hurt to step outside and get some fresh air and sunshine.

Seriously.

[Looking For Number Four]

A couple of thoughts that I've had:

1. I think one thing to think about that might actually help Bradford, if we draft him, are that it seems like Mike Shannahan might be looking to re-invent his offense. Reading how he spent time at Florida and with the New England Patriots tells me that he's looking to heavily incorporate spread principles in his new offense. This might help Bradford's transition into the league. We've seen how a little creativity with the spread has helped Alex Smith in San Francisco this season. Another thing that should somewhat help Bradford is that Oklahoma runs a lot of plays from under center and with play action so it won't be completely new to him. Sam Bradford actually might be the perfect QB for what Shanny wants to do.

2. In the Walterfootball article they mention that a year on the bench could really be a help to Stafford. I think this is a really big consideration about Bradford because I really don't expect to see him on the field as a rookie. That time on the bench should help address 2 of the 3 areas that the article mentions. It should give time for our offensive line to improve and time for Bradford to learn the NFL offense. He already has strong intangibles so if the year on the bench can strengthen the other two areas, then his chance of success should be greatly increased.

Colt certainly did show the release, decision making, and arm and to judge him on one per-season game... Did you all see Sanchez throw 5 INTs? I think he is a great project that we should continue to work on, if we do draft a QB then Campbell is not going to be sticking around and Collins is getting up there at this point.

Bradford sitting for a year and seeing if Campbell can navigate the year sounds like a decent idea. Rodgers say for several and came out swinging. Even Peyton was pretty rough his first season.

Nevertheless, does anyone have any links/articles or thoughts why one or both of these guys would bust or not?

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

I'm not necessarily a Colt fan but didn't he look garbage this year due to his torn hamstring and hip injury?

hamstring and hip injury do not impact his poor decision making...I would love Colt to be the answer, but he is not. The most popular person in DC is always the backup Qb. I remember everyone pushing for JC to be the man when he was watching Brunell...

[pocampo]

hamstring and hip injury do not impact his poor decision making...I would love Colt to be the answer, but he is not. The most popular person in DC is always the backup Qb. I remember everyone pushing for JC to be the man when he was watching Brunell...

Ya Colt made some bad decisions, But coach Zorn said Colt did a lot better this preseason then he did the last one. I'm still puzzled by that statement. I'm thinking Colt was under orders to not move the pocket , and make the right reads therefore making the right decisions. Last year Zorn said it was a trust issue with Colt, translation stay in the pocket as much as possible and do what your told to do. it did not even look close to how Colt plays QB, It looked like Chase played better then all the QBs. Now when you realistically look at it. Colt like all third string guys got only 10 reps per practice he never had time to develop any chemistry with the receivers or the first string guys. Cooley Moss ARE all said Colt will be a starter in this league and they believe in his ability. So as of right now Colt needs to prove he belongs on this team, when he gets a fair chance we can make a better evaluation of his ability. Last year was a chance but not a fair one. So right now I will take Cooley at his word, But if Colt comes out and does a JC I will fully admit he sucks and we can send him to Canada with Gramm.

[Looking For Number Four]

hamstring and hip injury do not impact his poor decision making...I would love Colt to be the answer, but he is not. The most popular person in DC is always the backup Qb. I remember everyone pushing for JC to be the man when he was watching Brunell...

So the Jets should have cut Sanchez during his numerous horrendous games?

Flacco's 4-10 in this past playoff game was pretty rough...

Colt is not and should not be judged or written off just yet. His upside is pretty high, certainly needs some more work, experience, and fine tuning but let us not get trigger happy here.

Bradford and/or Clausen would probably end up with the same "get a rope" antics on this board through their first season as their "decision making" is likely to be poor. Then, when they improve and for the first time since Baugh become a stud Redskin QB the bar will be raised and the Romo sits to pee-like "get a rope" talk will continue. Then, if he leads us to a Super Bowl we will bask in our awesome idea to get either of them. Inevitably though, the following season will not go as smooth and the McNabb-like "get a rope" talk will begin. Colt is a Redskin, for that reason I have his back and will until he no longer wears burgandy and gold. :helmet:

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Ya Colt made some bad decisions, But coach Zorn said Colt did a lot better this preseason then he did the last one. I'm still puzzled by that statement. I'm thinking Colt was under orders to not move the pocket , and make the right reads therefore making the right decisions. Last year Zorn said it was a trust issue with Colt, translation stay in the pocket as much as possible and do what your told to do. it did not even look close to how Colt plays QB, It looked like Chase played better then all the QBs. Now when you realistically look at it. Colt like all third string guys got only 10 reps per practice he never had time to develop any chemistry with the receivers or the first string guys. Cooley Moss ARE all said Colt will be a starter in this league and they believe in his ability. So as of right now Colt needs to prove he belongs on this team, when he gets a fair chance we can make a better evaluation of his ability. Last year was a chance but not a fair one. So right now I will take Cooley at his word, But if Colt comes out and does a JC I will fully admit he sucks and we can send him to Canada with Gramm.

If Capt Chaos said it....I'm in! No one would be happier than me if he came in and threw 30 TD's. I think Shanny has other plans...we will see!

Hail

[pocampo]

If Capt Chaos said it....I'm in! No one would be happier than me if he came in and threw 30 TD's. I think Shanny has other plans...we will see!

Hail

Sounds fair to me. Finally we get a real coach!!!

[pocampo]

So the Jets should have cut Sanchez during his numerous horrendous games?

Flacco's 4-10 in this past playoff game was pretty rough...

Colt is not and should not be judged or written off just yet. His upside is pretty high, certainly needs some more work, experience, and fine tuning but let us not get trigger happy here.

Bradford and/or Clausen would probably end up with the same "get a rope" antics on this board through their first season as their "decision making" is likely to be poor. Then, when they improve and for the first time since Baugh become a stud Redskin QB the bar will be raised and the Romo sits to pee-like "get a rope" talk will continue. Then, if he leads us to a Super Bowl we will bask in our awesome idea to get either of them. Inevitably though, the following season will not go as smooth and the McNabb-like "get a rope" talk will begin. Colt is a Redskin, for that reason I have his back and will until he no longer wears burgandy and gold. :helmet:

Great post!!!!!! :applause:

[Veretax]

There are different types of spread offenses, each is different, and they change from year to year. Some teams stretch you more vertically than side to side (except by alignment)

[skins island connection]

Any offense can be developed or torn apart, depending on the playcalling.

But a coach who has the ability to strategize, design and call plays which cater to our strengths, not our weaknesses, will be a big help, and when the time comes that the o-line becomes healthy and working as a group, it only sweetens the coaches ability to expand on offense.

Gibbs did this; he knew strengths and weaknesses of the Skins as well as their opponents; he put the hours into designs and adjustments, which made him a successful coach. I believe Shanahan will have similar success, and will not hesitate to replace players with big contracts with players who actually have the desire to play.

QB's are not immune to adjustments, and any talk of a jinx or curse is not really a big problem, it is coaching and systems that they fit into; just because a QB coming out of college shatters records doesn't make him a shoe-in to be the league's MVP, but some coaches get QBs that just do not work well in their system, thus looking like a bust.

CB; I think he will be a good, if not great QB, if he is in a system that works with his strengths...

[Looking For Number Four]

Any offense can be developed or torn apart, depending on the playcalling.

But a coach who has the ability to strategize, design and call plays which cater to our strengths, not our weaknesses, will be a big help, and when the time comes that the o-line becomes healthy and working as a group, it only sweetens the coaches ability to expand on offense.

Gibbs did this; he knew strengths and weaknesses of the Skins as well as their opponents; he put the hours into designs and adjustments, which made him a successful coach. I believe Shanahan will have similar success, and will not hesitate to replace players with big contracts with players who actually have the desire to play.

QB's are not immune to adjustments, and any talk of a jinx or curse is not really a big problem, it is coaching and systems that they fit into; just because a QB coming out of college shatters records doesn't make him a shoe-in to be the league's MVP, but some coaches get QBs that just do not work well in their system, thus looking like a bust.

CB; I think he will be a good, if not great QB, if he is in a system that works with his strengths...

Thank you for taking time to put some of what is being debated into perspective. I agree with you that most often a QB is a bust more because of exterior factors than the talent of the player. Russell I don't think was a number one overall, but how bad he truly is I think is more a result of Al Davis than Russell.

Shanny, Jr. was graced with the luxury of Andre Johnson, that is undeniable, the guy is a freakish athelete with impeccable ball control and uncanny awareness. Does he have that in Washington? Not exactly, but maybe Kelly could become something somewhat close. He does have two insanely talented pass catchers at TE, good #1 (Moss), and two guys that just might develop into studs. Is Matt Schuab better than both Claussen and Bradford, I don't think so, they are equal is anything. With Shanny Sr.'s blocking scheme bring back the run game and creating the system that enabled Jake Plummer to throw for 4400 yards I think these guys are going to have a chance to thrive.

That being said, Campbell is just too slow for either one their systems. Can they/he make it work? To a degree I think so. Can he thrive in it, I really don't think so. Clausen could undoubtedly work it out, especially given they will be able to talior it to him, but Bradford was made for their systems.

Campbell deserves to be in the NFL, has talent, and more moxy than most players in the NFL. He has great character and is undoubtedly a professional. I'm grateful for having to get to know him and I sincerely hope he is able to go into a system/team that fits his talents. :applause:

To Campbell and his unrelenting heart to please us despite of the numerous hurdles he faced during his tenure....

[darrelgreenie]

Joe Flacco came from a spread

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:A3XLWom-FCEJ:bleedscarlet.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/joe-flaccos-shotgun-blues/+Joe+Flacco+ran+a+spread+offense+at+Delaware&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us