NYT: Feds hid truth about immigrant jail deaths

[ACW]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34781953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

Silence has long shrouded the men and women who die in the nation’s immigration jails. For years, they went uncounted and unnamed in the public record. Even in 2008, when The New York Times obtained and published a federal government list of such deaths, few facts were available about who these people were and how they died.

But behind the scenes, it is now clear, the deaths had already generated thousands of pages of government documents, including scathing investigative reports that were kept under wraps, and a trail of confidential memos and BlackBerry messages that show officials working to stymie outside inquiry.

The documents, obtained over recent months by The Times and the American Civil Liberties Union under the Freedom of Information Act, concern most of the 107 deaths in detention counted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement since October 2003, after the agency was created within the Department of Homeland Security.

The Obama administration has vowed to overhaul immigration detention, a haphazard network of privately run jails, federal centers and county cells where the government holds noncitizens while it tries to deport them.

But as the administration moves to increase oversight within the agency, the documents show how officials — some still in key positions — used their role as overseers to cover up evidence of mistreatment, deflect scrutiny by the news media or prepare exculpatory public statements after gathering facts that pointed to substandard care or abuse.

:mad::mad:

[GoSkins561]

Whatever just ship them out, they don't belong here to begin with. If they didn't break the law in the first place this wouldn't be news.

[Larry]

I have a problem with the government letting them die in jail.

No problem at all with shipping them out. Or keeping them in (acceptable) prisons.

(The part that I really have trouble with is letting them out on bail. I've never been able to understand how someone who has demonstrated that he has the skill set to cross international borders, enter a US City, and obtain food, shelter, a job, and fake ID could possibly not be considered the very definition of "flight risk".)

[NOLASKINSFAN]

A clear violation of the non-citizens bill of rights...

EDIT, I accidentally typed "non-citizens" into Yahoo and I got

"Also try"

scholarships for non citizens:doh:

rights of non citizens:doh:

jobs for non citizens:doh:

health insurance for non citi...:doh:

student loans for non citizens:doh:

social security for non citizens:doh:

non citizens in the military:doh:

can non citizens vote:doh:

financial aid for non citizens:doh:

non citizens voting:doh:

[Larry]

A clear violation of the non-citizens bill of rights...

:secret:It's identical to the citizens bill or rights.

[ljs]

:secret:It's identical to the citizens bill or rights.

:secret:thats the problem.

[MadMonkey]

Such is life, allot of these illegal immigrants are the same ones killing on our streets but yet some of these groups are fighting for their rights when they shouldn't have any.

When we have deadly individuals like the Zetas running around on US streets, and some ending up in immigration jails who cares.

Not all illegal immigrants are criminals of course but this will always be a hot topic.

[NOLASKINSFAN]

:secret:It's identical to the citizens bill or rights.

oh no he d'ent...

[NOLASKINSFAN]

Not all illegal immigrants are criminals of course

ofcourse, I mean just because they are illeagal and everything, people judge... :hysterical:

[Larry]

:secret:thats the problem.

Interesting.

For how long have you considered the US Constitution to be a "problem"?

oh no he d'ent...

I can't help it. It's a reflex I have whenever someone demonstrates that they're ignorant of the US Constitution.

Me, I learned about it in High School. Seemed pretty easy at the time. Only a few pages long. And even those few pages could be summarized pretty effectively.

But some people seem to have trouble with the concept.

Must be the degeneration of our schools, these days. Whippersnappers.

[GhostofSparta]

The Federal Government lying to us/covering thier own asses? Never!

[Destino]

:secret:thats the problem.

Only if you don't believe in anything this country stands for.

Whoever is behind this cover up is actively allowing more people to die.

[Larry]

Such is life, allot of these illegal immigrants are the same ones killing on our streets but yet some of these groups are fighting for their rights when they shouldn't have any.

When we have deadly individuals like the Zetas running around on US streets, and some ending up in immigration jails who cares.

Not all illegal immigrants are criminals of course but this will always be a hot topic.

Wow. Two really bogus whoppers in the same post. Whoppers which, if posted separately, I would have assumed came from whackjobs on completely opposite "sides" of the "political spectrum".

So let me get this straight. In your opinion, illegal immigrants shouldn't have any rights. Even though some of them (according to you) have broken no laws.

[NOLASKINSFAN]

I can't help it. It's a reflex I have whenever someone demonstrates that they're ignorant of the US Constitution.

Me, I learned about it in High School. Seemed pretty easy at the time. Only a few pages long. And even those few pages could be summarized pretty effectively.

But some people seem to have trouble with the concept.

Must be the degeneration of our schools, these days. Whippersnappers.

Hmm, I consider myself fairly familiar with the US Constitution, certainly more than most. I am looking at a copy on my wall right now in my office, Could you please direct me to the part that says the US Constitution applies to all people of the world?

I guess I'm taking the "We the People of the United Sates" at face value. Lend your guidance oh wise one.

[Larry]

Hmm, I consider myself fairly familiar with the US Constitution, certainly more than most. I am looking at a copy on my wall right now in my office, Could you please direct me to the part that says the US Constitution applies to all people of the world?

I guess I'm taking the "We the People of the United Sates" at face value. Lend your guidance oh wise one.

We the people of the United States . . . do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Congratulations. We have now established who wrote, and approved of, the Constitution.

Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with your completely bogus claim. Got any other selective editing you want to try and pull to demonstrate your "expertise"?

But to answer your attempt to intentionally misrepresent the Constitution a second time:

The Constitution doesn't apply to any people. The Constitution applies to the government of the United States.

Let's try something simple:

The purpose of the Constitution is . . .

:secret:(The word "Constitution" is a hint.)

[NOLASKINSFAN]

We the people of the United States . . . do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Got any other selective editing you want to try and pull to demonstrate your "expertise"?

But to answer your attempt to intentionally misrepresent the Constitution a second time:

The Constitution doesn't apply to any people. The Constitution applies to the government of the United States.

Let's try something simple:

The purpose of the Constitution is . . .

:secret:(The word "Constitution" is a hint.)

OK, so we will go slow.. no problem. Stay with me.

If the Constitution applies to the government of the United States, The Bill of Rights applies to the citizens of the ______ ______.

[Larry]

OK, so we will go slow.. no problem. Stay with me.

If the Constitution applies to the government of the United States, The Bill of Rights applies to the citizens of the ______ ______.

Answer my question. You already had one swing and a miss.

[twa]

:secret:It's identical to the citizens bill or rights.

So they get to vote and are entitled to a representative?

[NOLASKINSFAN]

Answer my question. You already had one swing and a miss.

You question made no sense. The Constitution was established to form the principles of how the government of the United States operates.

[Larry]

You question made no sense. The Constitution was established to form the principles of how the government of the United States operates.

Close enough.

The Constitution is the document which constitutes (forms) the government of the United States.

Hence, the name.

As such, it specifies the composition of the government, the methods by which the people will be selected.

And it specifies the powers, and restrictions, which the People chose to place on their government.

That's why, for example, the First Amendment doesn't say "Citizens shall have Freedom of Speech". It says "The government may not infringe on Freedom of Speech".

It's based on the Framer's beliefs (or, if you will "recognition of the fact") that freedom isn't something which the government hands out. It's something which people are born with. Governments don't have the power to grant freedom. They only have the power to take it away.

(If there were no governments, then everybody would have Freedom of Speech.)

The Constitution doesn't say that US Citizens have rights. It says that the US Government is prohibited from certain powers.

[Destino]

Hmm, I consider myself fairly familiar with the US Constitution, certainly more than most. I am looking at a copy on my wall right now in my office, Could you please direct me to the part that says the US Constitution applies to all people of the world?

I guess I'm taking the "We the People of the United Sates" at face value. Lend your guidance oh wise one.

If you are so familiar with the constitution you realize that the rights are not granted by the document. The document prohibits the government from denying these rights. This is important because you seem to think it grants rights to specific individuals when it does not. Those specific individuals (the people) formed a government and denied it the power to infringe on certain rights. They did not however specify that they could in instance A and instance B. They simply denied it the ability to infringe. Little did they know later generations having abandoned the ideals of their forefathers and forsaken the call for immigrants that made the nation great would engage in a state of willful ignorance in order to justify a more brutal treatment of groups they dislike.

Furthermore I find it abhorrent that Americans think these rights are little more than special bonus' for citizens. As if citizens were a superior race and rights were prizes in some SWAG bag at an awards show. Rights are considered inalienable and basic. They are a starting point not a best case scenario. They are the ONLY manner for a government to treat people not the ideal manner.

[aszumilo]

The Constitution doesn't say that US Citizens have rights. It says that the US Government is prohibited from certain powers.

But in your location it says you live "Where the Constitution grants rights to pregnant pigs and denies them to homosexual humans".

Yet you say that the Constitution does not grant rights to citizens. So, if the Constitution grants rights to pregnant pigs, doesn't that confer that the Constitution grants rights? Isn't that contradictory by your statements?

Just curious.

[stevenaa]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The constitution applies to "the people" delineated by "ourselves" who are the "the People of the United States"

It was written to form the Government of the United States and what said government could do in regards to the rights of the American People.

Every use of the word "People" is prefaced by "the", clearly denoting it's application is specific to the American People.

It makes no sense to even argue it was written to include non-citizens as it forms the government of the American People.

With that said, we should absolutely hold to these principals universally. Those responsible for the cover up should be held accountable.

[Larry]

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The constitution applies to "the people" delineated by "ourselves" who are the "the People of the United States"

It was written to form the Government of the United States and what said government could do in regards to the rights of the American People.

Every use of the word "People" is prefaced by "the", clearly denoting it's application is specific to the American People.

It makes no sense to even argue it was written to include non-citizens as it forms the government of the American People.

With that said, we should absolutely hold to these principals universally. Those responsible for the cover up should be held accountable.

So in your opinion, the US Congress has no power to pass laws that apply to non-citizens? The Judicial branch has no authority to try them?

Joe Crotchbomber isn't a citizen. So the US Government has no authority over him?

Where do we get the authority to put him in jail?

[NOLASKINSFAN]

So in your opinion, the US Congress has no power to pass laws that apply to non-citizens? The Judicial branch has no authority to try them?

Joe Crotchbomber isn't a citizen. So the US Government has no authority over him?

Where do we get the authority to put him in jail?

Great point! Military tribunals, he is a war criminal and he should be killed (by grenade to the sack, imho)