Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If you're going to call Ryan, Flacco, and Palmer franchise QBs, then you might as well throw JC in there too. They all had very similar stats this year. Of those 4 JC had the second best QB rating. Why are those 3 franchise QBs but not JC? Because they have done something JC has never done led this team to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I can not believe all you JC applogists I mean seriously JC is not a Franchise QB and will never be, he will be a good back up and nothing more. Most of JC's TD and yards were in garbage time. whatever, I just don't want a "franchise QB." Chasing after them is to much damn trouble. Give me a game manager any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBroChill Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Mat Ryan (Led his team to the playoffs) Eli Manning (Won a superbowl) Philip Rivers Big Ben Aaron Rodger Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben were 6 years ago. Name me three more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Drafting a QB in the first and rebuilding the OL are definitely not mutually exclusive. I'd rather have a top five LT than a top five QB. More chance of your QB, whoever he is staying upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBroChill Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Because they have done something JC has never done led this team to the playoffs. If it was JC in there instead of TC when we won those last 4 games would you call JC a franchise QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 All we need is a couple of linemen and JC, Portis and Moss will lead this team to the promise land. The ones who don't agree aren't true fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If you're going to call Ryan, Flacco, and Palmer franchise QBs, then you might as well throw JC in there too. They all had very similar stats this year. Of those 4 JC had the second best QB rating. Why are those 3 franchise QBs but not JC? How about lifetime won-loss record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If it was JC in there instead of TC when we won those last 4 games would you call JC a franchise QB? That wouldn't have happened. He lost 7 of the 12 he played in that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben were 6 years ago. Name me three more. Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs) Mark Sanchez (led his team to the playoffs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Who says we can't get both? What is the major brain malfunction here? We will be trading vets. We will get picks for those vets. We will have extra, high-round picks. We will take a qb at 4. We will then get extra, top-rounds linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 whatever, I just don't want a "franchise QB."Chasing after them is to much damn trouble. Give me a game manager any day of the week. Only one game manager won a super bowl this past decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If it was JC in there instead of TC when we won those last 4 games would you call JC a franchise QB? JC wouldn't have won those games. Yes I probally would because it would have shown me that he could put this team on his back and carry them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 How about lifetime won-loss record? People keep looking at simple stats and rating and forget the other parts. Once again, a QB can rack up some yards, a TD or two and an admirabe rating in garbage time after they have struggled the previous three quarters. Campbell had 3-4 really good games this year. I thought maybe he was turning the corner around late November, but then a loud thud hit two weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvtbred Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 People keep looking at simple stats and rating and forget the other parts. Once again' date=' a QB can rack up some yards, a TD or two and an admirabe rating in garbage time after they have struggled the previous three quarters. Campbell had 3-4 really good games this year. I thought maybe he was turning the corner around late November, but then a loud thud hit two weeks ago.[/quote']That's his MO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 It was surprising to me when Gibbs selected Jason Campbell in the first round of the 2005 NFL draft. Gibbs, Beatherd, or Casserly never drafted a QB that high before. If Allen and Shanahan decides that a QB should be chosen in the first round this coming draft instead of re-signing Campbell then I'd be surprised again. None of the QBs coming out this year are even slated as being top five picks, so who knows. Maybe they'll trade down the 4th overall pick and address the offensive line and maybe select Colt McCoy in the second round? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Who says we can't get both?What is the major brain malfunction here? We will be trading vets. We will get picks for those vets. We will have extra, high-round picks. We will take a qb at 4. We will then get extra, top-rounds linemen. some people must be purposely overlooking your posts. I agree with you. I just really think that much of our fanbase has developed such a malaise that they'd be cool with 8-8 as long as the same names are here. Like some Joe Gibbs hangover thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hieverybody Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs)Mark Sanchez (led his team to the playoffs) You are stretching the definition of "led." No team in history has missed the playoffs when being ranked #1 in rush offense and rush defense. The fact that the Jets needed a whole lot of luck the last two weeks to get in says volumes about Sanchez. Flacco is good when the running game is churning and the Ravens are ahead. He's terrible when playing from behind and he needs to make some plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 '97 Colts gave up 41 sacks (Drafted Manning, built a line in front of him.)'98 Eagles gave up 56 sacks (Drafted McNabb, built a line in front of him.) '02 Bengals gave up 37 sacks (Drafted Palmer, built a line in front of him.) '03 Giants gave up 44 sacks (Traded for Eli, built a line in front of him.) '03 Steelers gave up 42 sacks (Drafted Big Ben, built a line in front of him.) '07 Ravens gave up 39 sacks (Drafted Flacco, built a line in front of him.) '07 Falcons gave up 47 sakcs (Drafted Ryan, built a line in front of him.) You can draft QBs high with a bad offensive line (see above) and still succeed in the coming years. The key is to get your QB and build around him. You do not need to have a great line first before getting that franchise QB. 1998 Eagles http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/1998_roster.htm 2 starters and 1 reserve before McNabb ever took a snap. LT Tra Thomas 24 Rook 16 1 fumble recovered Philadelphia Eagles / 1st / 11th pick / 1998 LG Jermane Mayberry 25 2 10 Philadelphia Eagles / 1st / 25th pick / 1996 LG George Hegamin 25 4 6 Dallas Cowboys / 3rd / 102nd pick / 1994 C Steve Everitt 28 5 13 Cleveland Browns / 1st / 14th pick / 1993 RG Ian Beckles 31 8 16 2 fumbles recovered Tampa Bay Buccaneers / 5th / 114th pick / 1990 RT Richard Cooper 34 8 15 2002 Cincinnati Bengals http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2002_roster.htm Had a core OL in place for Carson Palmer with only 1 rookie or player drafted after Carson. LT Levi Jones 23 Rook 14 1 fumble recovered Cincinnati Bengals / 1st / 10th pick / 2002 LG Matt O'Dwyer 30 7 16 2 fumbles recovered New York Jets / 2nd / 33rd pick / 1995 C Rich Braham 32 8 15 Arizona Cardinals / 3rd / 76th pick / 1994 RG Mike Goff 26 4 13 1 fumble recovered Cincinnati Bengals / 3rd / 78th pick / 1998 RT Willie Anderson 27 6 16 1997 Indianapolis Colts http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/1997_roster.htm 2 rookies and 3 vets his 1st year. LT Adam Meadows 23 Rook 16 Indianapolis Colts / 2nd / 48th pick / 1997 LG Doug Widell 31 8 16 Denver Broncos / 2nd / 41st pick / 1989 C Jay Leeuwenburg 28 5 16 Kansas City Chiefs / 9th / 244th pick / 1992 RG Tarik Glenn 21 Rook 16 1 fumble recovered Indianapolis Colts / 1st / 19th pick / 1997 RT Tony Mandarich 31 8 16 1 fumble recovered Green Bay Packers / 1st / 2nd pick / 1989 2004 New York Giants http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2004_roster.htm 1st year Manning started. Had 3 vet OL already on the team before he was drafted. LT Luke Petitgout 28 5 16 1 fumble recovered New York Giants / 1st / 19th pick / 1999 LG Jason Whittle 29 6 16 C Shaun O'Hara 27 4 12 RG Chris Snee 22 Rook 11 3 fumbles recovered New York Giants / 2nd / 34th pick / 2004 RG Wayne Lucier 25 1 9 1 fumble recovered 2004 Pittsburgh Steelers http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004_roster.htm Ben had a complete and vet OL to work with and become SB champs. LT Marvel Smith* 26 4 16 Pittsburgh Steelers / 2nd / 38th pick / 2000 LG Alan Faneca*+ 28 6 16 Pittsburgh Steelers / 1st / 26th pick / 1998 C Jeff Hartings*+ 32 8 16 Detroit Lions / 1st / 23rd pick / 1996 RG Keydrick Vincent 26 3 16 RT Oliver Ross 30 6 16 Dallas Cowboys / 5th / 138th pick / 1998 2007 Baltimore Ravens http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2008_roster.htm 1st year Flaaco started. 4 of the 5 starters were there before Flaaco was drafted. LT Jared Gaither 22 1 15 LG Ben Grubbs 24 1 16 Baltimore Ravens / 1st / 29th pick / 2007 C Jason Brown 25 3 16 1 fumble recovered Baltimore Ravens / 4th / 124th pick / 2005 RG Chris Chester 25 2 11 Baltimore Ravens / 2nd / 56th pick / 2006 RG Marshall Yanda 24 1 5 2 fumbles recovered Baltimore Ravens / 3rd / 86th pick / 2007 RT Willie Anderson 33 12 11 1 fumble recovered Cincinnati Bengals / 1st / 10th pick / 1996 RT Adam Terry 26 3 7 Baltimore Ravens / 2nd / 64th pick / 2005 2008 Atlanta Falcons http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/2008.htm 1st year Matt Ryan started. 3 of 5 starters were on the roster when he was drafted. LT Todd Weiner 33 10 11 Seattle Seahawks / 2nd / 47th pick / 1998 LT Sam Baker 23 Rook 5 Atlanta Falcons / 1st / 21st pick / 2008 LG Justin Blalock 25 1 16 2 fumbles recovered Atlanta Falcons / 2nd / 39th pick / 2007 C Todd McClure 31 8 16 Atlanta Falcons / 7th / 237th pick / 1999 RG Harvey Dahl 27 2 16 RT Tyson Clabo 27 2 16 So none of these QB's were drafted before the majority of their OL was completed. /thread. :chair::chair: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinSkin Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If you're going to call Ryan, Flacco, and Palmer franchise QBs, then you might as well throw JC in there too. They all had very similar stats this year. Of those 4 JC had the second best QB rating. Why are those 3 franchise QBs but not JC? Well for one, all have led their teams to comeback wins with less than 2 minutes this year. Two, they've all led their teams to the playoffs. Three, all have more touchdowns and less interceptions than Campbell this season. Fourth, are you really going to mention Campbell in the same breath as Palmer? Really? Palmer put up consecutive seasons of 32, 28, and 26 touchdowns in his first four years as starter and was a two-time Pro Bowl selection during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 JC wouldn't have won those games. Yes I probally would because it would have shown me that he could put this team on his back and carry them. He had many chances in the second half of the season where our D choked with a minute or two left and he couldn't deliver on even one of those chances. Not one. Does he even have one 4th qtr comeback on his career resume? once again, if your planning is for the coming decade do you want a QB who's already approaching 30 as a part of that? Lord knows I don't want to have to be looking for a QB in five years and Campbell is not any kind of QB that will lead one team that long. Lastly, simple stats tell nothing. It doesn't tell the mechanical flaws, the lack of moxie to lead a comeback, etc, etc. Yeah, he's tough and has handled everything with class, but he isn't the answer. Good god we had these same arguments about Ramsey. What is he doing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbsisgod2006 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 You are stretching the definition of "led." No team in history has missed the playoffs when being ranked #1 in rush offense and rush defense. The fact that the Jets needed a whole lot of luck the last two weeks to get in says volumes about Sanchez. Flacco is good when the running game is churning and the Ravens are ahead. He's terrible when playing from behind and he needs to make some plays. Go ahead and look at the end of the Titans playoff game when he drove his team down the field to win the game. Can you say that about JC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBroChill Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Joe Flacco (led his team to the playoffs)Mark Sanchez (led his team to the playoffs) Mark Sanchez 53.8% completion 12 TDs and 20 picks 26 Sacks. Jason Campbell 64.5% completion 20 TDs and 15 picks 42 Sacks. Would you really prefer Sanchez to Campbell? I call bull**** on that. Besides even if you count Sanchez as a franchise QB that's still only 4: Sanchez, Flacco, Ryan, and Rodgers. It may be hard to admit it, but Jason Campbell is one of the top 5 QBs drafted in the past 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD5 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 some people must be purposely overlooking your posts. I agree with you. I just really think that much of our fanbase has developed such a malaise that they'd be cool with 8-8 as long as the same names are here. Like some Joe Gibbs hangover thing. People are crazy Sammy. This thread isn't about the draft. It's about "I love JC." Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Who says we can't get both?What is the major brain malfunction here? We will be trading vets. We will get picks for those vets. We will have extra, high-round picks. We will take a qb at 4. We will then get extra, top-rounds linemen. This is a situation I would be very happy with, I just have a hard time seeing us trading and getting good picks for too many players. I think you need a 2 year plan to rebuild at least, I just do not think that you can fix this team like we are just a few OL away from being good, we aren't, period. It doesn't matter who is at QB or Oline this team needs a lot of wholes filled and I guarantee we won't make the play offs next year. If by some fluke we did, I'd be happy no doubt, but I just do not see this turning around that quick, maybe I'm wrong here, but we've had a really awful season, to expect playoffs is insane right now :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hieverybody Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Go ahead and look at the end of the Titans playoff game when he drove his team down the field to win the game. Can you say that about JC? I'm not interested in getting into a JC debate. I'm no longer a JC supporter - I agree that QB is our biggest need. But trying to fill that need by drafting a QB #4 overall is short-term thinking because neither Clausen nor Bradford are franchise QBs. Franchise QBs don't come around every year. Sanchez is not one. Flacco hasn't proven he is yet either. We got unlucky by drafting high in a QB weak year, but we have to be smart and trade down so that we have enough ammo next year to get a real franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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