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How is drafting a QB in the first not the same old Skins?

hammerva

By hammerva
in The Stadium

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Veretax

Veretax

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Okay lets look at the play off teams the last few years.

Atlanta - Matt Ryan ( 1 play off, barely missed this year)

Baltimore - Joe Flacco (2 years in play offs)

NY Jets - Sanchez (1 year and back in play offs)

Pittsburgh (Big Ben, made it year after he was drafted as I recall)

I hate to say it but it has worked for other teams

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Oldskool

Oldskool

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You know the draft is 7 rounds, right?

And that most starting OLinemen are drawn from rounds 2-6, right?

You do realize that we have 6 picks, right?

You do realize we have other needs than OL, right?

You do realize that free agency will be severely limited this year, right?

You do realize we need 4 starters, not just depth... Right?

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TankRizzo

TankRizzo

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Hows this:

The year before drafting Peyton Manning, Colts allowed 3rd highest sacks in the NFL and had a 17th ranked rushing attack, with marshall faulk.

Thats a good OL?

Like I said in an earlier post.

First thing Bill Polian did with the Bills is get Jim Kelly.

First thing he did with the Panthers is draft Kerry collins.

First thing he did with the Colts is draft Manning.

Last time I checked Bill Polian was a pretty good GM, but I guess I should re-evaluate that because he doesn't take Left Tackles right off the bat.

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Oldskool

Oldskool

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Okay lets look at the play off teams the last few years.

Atlanta - Matt Ryan ( 1 play off, barely missed this year)

Baltimore - Joe Flacco (2 years in play offs)

NY Jets - Sanchez (1 year and back in play offs)

Pittsburgh (Big Ben, made it year after he was drafted as I recall)

I hate to say it but it has worked for other teams

None of those teams had offensive lines that were void of talent, depth or in need of 4 starters.

So past examples are definitely not examples of future performance.

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Farbod21

Farbod21

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Jake Locker is much more likely to become Peyton Manning than either Bradford or Clausen. The Colts drafted Tarik Glenn the year before Manning. Do you think they wish they had chosen Druckenmiller (the first QB taken and still available) instead?

Colts also had Jim Harbaugh and they were 9-7 and made the playoffs that year...

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skinsfanno9

skinsfanno9

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I'm not saying our OL is fine and we shouldn't address it. Its not and we should. But you can address OL better in the later rounds and FA than QB. Look at all the starting QBs in the league. Yes, some are late round gems. But most are 1st rounders. Most top tiered QBs in the league are first round picks. The fact that some are busts doesn't change that.

Just to recap from another thread - Of the top 10 QBs by passer rating this year, their draft positions are as follows:

Drew Brees - 2nd Round

Tom Brady - 6th Round

Brett Farve - 2nd Round

Aaron Rogers - Late first round

Tony Romo sits to pee - Undrafted

Kurt Warner - Undrafted

Matt Schaub - 3rd Round

That's 7 of the top 10 not an upper tier draft pick (yeah, sure, I hate Romo sits to pee too - Make it 6 then). Tell me again why its "necessary" that we draft a QB with the 4th pick of the draft???

Fact is, its easier to find QB busts in the beginning of the draft - worse, they cost lots more. While I'd be fine with an Olineman as the #4 pick, the more I think of it, the more I want us to trade down. We have LOTS of needs. I think most here would be fine if we traded down and got one QB and two Olinemen in the first two rounds (personally I'd prefer a RB over the QB but such is life).

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Mr. Grundle

Mr. Grundle

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Sarcasm aside, a starting rookie QB with a sieve OL is IR bait. Ask Matthew Stafford.

So the difference between a rookie QB on the bench, a rookie QB on IR because of a bad OL and a wasted 1st round pick is what exactly?

No matter who we draft, this team is not winning the SB next season. Too many holes to fill. So if we draft a QB and sit him next season, yes it is a wasted pick...but only for next season, which we have no chance at winning anything anyway. Once he starts playing in year 2 or 3, he is no longer a wasted pick, and that's plenty of time to put pieces around him.

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Oldskool

Oldskool

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Like I said in an earlier post.

First thing Bill Polian did with the Bills is get Jim Kelly.

First thing he did with the Panthers is draft Kerry collins.

First thing he did with the Colts is draft Manning.

Last time I checked Bill Polian was a pretty good GM, but I guess I should re-evaluate that because he doesn't take Left Tackles right off the bat.

Polian was smart enough to know that he had a line that could protect Manning (was only sacked 22 times)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=1998&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1

Which was tied 8th in the league. He also knew that a running game helps take the pressure off the QB.

Skins are devoid of OL talent and lack a true RB (with Portis probably being gone). Polian is smart. Let's be like Polian.

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mnb123

mnb123

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You do realize that we have 6 picks, right?

You do realize we have other needs than OL, right?

You do realize that free agency will be severely limited this year, right?

You do realize we need 4 starters, not just depth... Right?

You do realize that we are more than likely to have atleast one of our current starters return, and rebuilding the whole thing in a year isn't realistic, right?

You do realize that we are more than likely going to acquire more picks, right?

You do realize that we will have to take a QB in the next few years, so if the Shannys figure that one of the QBs this year can be there guy, then what is the problem picking him?...right?

...

First off, I am not against drafting Okung. He is a beast.

But people have been dying for a real GM and personnel guy for years, and now we have a GM, a proven coach, and a young OC coming in. If they decide to go QB, everyone should trust their decision and realize that they know what they are doing. Denver's and Houston's offenses speak for themselves.

But some people will never be happy

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Mordac

Mordac

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Then we'd better not draft Clausen.

Yeah, frankly I'm not sold on Bradford or Clausen. Trading down and getting Locker and more picks sounds like a better move, and I really don't mind sitting a rookie QB for a year (or 5, or 8, or 10 games, anyway).

I'm speaking in generalities here. And I'm hoping that someone who's worth the pick will emerge after the pro days and combine. Clausen never impressed me, and I don't think I've ever seen Bradford complete a pass to a guy who wasn't wide open. There aren't any Tulsas or Baylors in the NFL.

/hijack. :)

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hammerva

hammerva

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A franchise quarterback means nothing with a terrible offensive line. If the Skins want to draft the next David Carr or Patrick Ramsey then great Sam Bradford is the guy. But if you really want to rebuild this team, you have to start with a foundation. Build up the offensive line. The offensive line was easily the worst in the NFL. Everyone that says that quarterback is the biggest need on this team is just using Campbell as a scapegoat. By drafting a QB in the first round you are hoping that he can do what Big Ben in Pittsburgh can do. news flash pittsburgh has much better overall talent than the Skins. And their O Line and secondary sucks as well. I just don't see Sam Bradford as the next Ben Roethlisberger. Not after 2 injuries.

And for people who say that you can't get a quality offensive lineman at #4 or none that is worth a #4 pick, here is a concept: TRADE DOWN FOR MORE PICKS. You want to change the philosophy of this team how about the philosphy on how they build a team. And as much as I hate their guts the Patriots are a good example. They got 6 or 7 draft picks in the middle rounds. How about building some much need depth instead of going "that one player" that has been the mentality of the Skins for 10 years under richie Rich.

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Redskinzfan30

Redskinzfan30

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Sarcasm aside, a starting rookie QB with a sieve OL is IR bait. Ask Matthew Stafford.

So the difference between a rookie QB on the bench, a rookie QB on IR because of a bad OL and a wasted 1st round pick is what exactly?

You completely ignore my responses to you. You say not to because he won't start his 1st year. So what. Aaron Rodgers sat for several years and now look at him and the Packers in the playoffs. Also tell me how it is a wasted 1st round pick when he'll be starting for this team at some point? A wasted 1st round pick is when the player you picked never starts or gets released or is a bust. You have no proof to say Bradford or Clausen will be a bust. It's just your opinion. Just how it's my opinion that we can get a good LT in round 2 and pick up a G or C in the 4th.

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Oldskool

Oldskool

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No matter who we draft, this team is not winning the SB next season. Too many holes to fill. So if we draft a QB and sit him next season, yes it is a wasted pick...but only for next season, which we have no chance at winning anything anyway. Once he starts playing in year 2 or 3, he is no longer a wasted pick, and that's plenty of time to put pieces around him.

Ok we are playing "what if" now.

What happens when Campbell/Collins/Brennan goes on IR (we aren't keeping 4 QB's) because the OL is a sieve and rookie is forced into action?

The foundation of a team is a solid O-line, not a rookie QB holding a clipboard.

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Farbod21

Farbod21

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Just to recap from another thread - Of the top 10 QBs by passer rating this year, their draft positions are as follows:

Drew Brees - 2nd Round

Tom Brady - 6th Round

Brett Farve - 2nd Round

Aaron Rogers - Late first round

Tony Romo sits to pee - Undrafted

Kurt Warner - Undrafted

Matt Schaub - 3rd Round

That's 7 of the top 10 not an upper tier draft pick (yeah, sure, I hate Romo sits to pee too - Make it 6 then). Tell me again why its "necessary" that we draft a QB with the 4th pick of the draft???

Fact is, its easier to find QB busts in the beginning of the draft - worse, they cost lots more. While I'd be fine with an Olineman as the #4 pick, the more I think of it, the more I want us to trade down. We have LOTS of needs. I think most here would be fine if we traded down and got one QB and two Olinemen in the first two rounds (personally I'd prefer a RB over the QB but such is life).

Nice way of dressing up the stats and putting **** out of order.

Top 6 QBs by Rating:

Brees - 2nd (very top of second)

Favre - 2nd (very top of second)

Rivers - 1st

Rodgers - 1st

Rothlesburger - 1st

Manning - 1st

All 6 were taken within the top 40 picks. Brees and Rodgers dropped some because teams were scared by height and college system respectively, but both had high grades. Top of the draft is where you get the best QBs. Period.

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hieverybody

hieverybody

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Yeah, frankly I'm not sold on Bradford or Clausen. Trading down and getting Locker and more picks sounds like a better move, and I really don't mind sitting a rookie QB for a year (or 5, or 8, or 10 games, anyway).

I'm speaking in generalities here. And I'm hoping that someone who's worth the pick will emerge after the pro days and combine. Clausen never impressed me, and I don't think I've ever seen Bradford complete a pass to a guy who wasn't wide open. There aren't any Tulsas or Baylors in the NFL.

/hijack. :)

I couldn't agree more. We have a lot of needs - we can't afford to reach for a QB in a poor QB class just because we have a new coach and GM. Let's preach patience, think long-term, and wait for Locker.

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skinsfanno9

skinsfanno9

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Okay lets look at the play off teams the last few years.

Atlanta - Matt Ryan ( 1 play off, barely missed this year)

Baltimore - Joe Flacco (2 years in play offs)

NY Jets - Sanchez (1 year and back in play offs)

Pittsburgh (Big Ben, made it year after he was drafted as I recall)

I hate to say it but it has worked for other teams

Any chance you'd like to compare their Olines to the Redskins? Do you really think the reason the Jets are in the playoffs is due to the play of Sanchez??? I'm guessing its due to them being the #1 running team in the league. Hmm...I wonder why their running game is so good...

And Baltimore is top 5 this year as well in Running, as would Atlanta be if Turner weren't injured (this is why they made the playoffs last year). All three of those had a great Oline and running game supporting them, as did Big Ben. Although unlike the other three, Ben is clearly a phenom.

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skinsfanno9

skinsfanno9

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I couldn't agree more. We have a lot of needs - we can't afford to reach for a QB in a poor QB class just because we have a new coach and GM. Let's preach patience, think long-term, and wait for Locker.

+1

Frankly, I'd love it if Allen game out with a game plan for the future that essentially says, "4-12 teams are generally not Super-Bowl bound next year. We aren't building for next year, we're building for the next decade." More draft picks makes lots more sense in that context.

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Veretax

Veretax

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You do realize that we have 6 picks, right?

You do realize we have other needs than OL, right?

You do realize that free agency will be severely limited this year, right?

You do realize we need 4 starters, not just depth... Right?

We only have 5 picks. 3rd went to get Jarmon, 6th Jason Taylor Trade. (unless we are getting a supp pick I am not aware of).

You are NOT, I repeat NOT going to find 4 oL starters in 1 draft it just DOES NOT happen. If we could get 2 OL that could start that alone would be a good draft IMO. We need to have reasonable expectations, and we need to rebuild the responsible way. Getting 4 OL at the same time even if we somehow by some Miracle pulled that off, is setting the team up for trouble when all 4 have contracts expire at the same time. I'm just saying, we need to be smart and realize this change is not going to happen in one year.

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SkinsHokieFan

SkinsHokieFan

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We only have 5 picks. 3rd went to get Jarmon, 6th Jason Taylor Trade. (unless we are getting a supp pick I am not aware of).

I'm just saying, we need to be smart and realize this change is not going to happen in one year.

Correct. Which is why we will pick a QB this year and begin his development :)

QBs take 3 years to really develop in the Shanahan system (see Cutler, Jay)

O-lineman are much quicker. See Mr. Clady

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