How is drafting a QB in the first not the same old Skins?

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Mark Sanchez 53.8% completion 12 TDs and 20 picks 26 Sacks.

Jason Campbell 64.5% completion 20 TDs and 15 picks 42 Sacks.

Would you really prefer Sanchez to Campbell? I call bull**** on that.

Besides even if you count Sanchez as a franchise QB that's still only 4: Sanchez, Flacco, Ryan, and Rodgers.

It may be hard to admit it, but Jason Campbell is one of the top 5 QBs drafted in the past 5 years.

Stats aren't everything I would take Sanchez over JC any day of the week. Sure his numbers are bad right now but he will only get better.

He may be a 5th on that list but it still doesn't matter JC is not a QB you build your team around. JC is a QB who can't take a team and put it on his back.

[hieverybody]

This is a situation I would be very happy with, I just have a hard time seeing us trading and getting good picks for too many players. I think you need a 2 year plan to rebuild at least, I just do not think that you can fix this team like we are just a few OL away from being good, we aren't, period. It doesn't matter who is at QB or Oline this team needs a lot of wholes filled and I guarantee we won't make the play offs next year. If by some fluke we did, I'd be happy no doubt, but I just do not see this turning around that quick, maybe I'm wrong here, but we've had a really awful season, to expect playoffs is insane right now :/

Absolutely correct. Hopefully our front office is looking more than one year ahead and evaluating not only prospects this year but next year too. That way we can get offensive line help in a good year for offensive linemen and a QB in a good year for QBs.

[wvtbred]

Stats aren't everything I would take Sanchez over JC any day of the week. Sure his numbers are bad right now but he will only get better.

He may be a 5th on that list but it still doesn't matter JC is not a QB you build your team around. JC is a QB who can't take a team and put it on his back.

Same here and Jason is in his 5th year Mark is in his first where he is going into the post season while Jason is spending his day getting massages.

It comes down to Jason does not make those around him better and can't carry a team himself.

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I'm not interested in getting into a JC debate. I'm no longer a JC supporter - I agree that QB is our biggest need. But trying to fill that need by drafting a QB #4 overall is short-term thinking because neither Clausen nor Bradford are franchise QBs.

Franchise QBs don't come around every year. Sanchez is not one. Flacco hasn't proven he is yet either. We got unlucky by drafting high in a QB weak year, but we have to be smart and trade down so that we have enough ammo next year to get a real franchise QB.

To early to tell if Sanchez is one or not. But I am inclined to say Sanchez is a Franchise QB. Flacco has the intagables and the pieces around to him to make him a very good QB. I dont know if next year Draft class is that good past Jake Locker. I like Sam and he is the only QB worth taking at 4.

[Stophovr6]

Because we wouldn't be drafting a defensive back?

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

It may be hard to admit it, but Jason Campbell is one of the top 5 QBs drafted in the past 5 years.

wow.......

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

I dont know if next year Draft class is that good past Jake Locker. I like Sam and he is the only QB worth taking at 4.

exactly. There is no good QB worth taking next year. So then we have to wait until 2012 to get the franchise guy. I would hope that by 2012 we are truning the corner and not grooming a rookie QB

[Oldskool]

exactly. There is no good QB worth taking next year. So then we have to wait until 2012 to get the franchise guy. I would hope that by 2012 we are truning the corner and not grooming a rookie QB

:bsflag:

Every year its a crapshoot.

2 years ago, no one was talking about Sanchez

Last year McCoy/Bradford/Tebow were the big hoopla. No one even talked about Claussen. Now he could go #1.

Now one is a late round pick, one injured and the other looked upon to play a hybrid position.

Locker is the name out there right now, but some other QB will step up next year and be the next big thing.

[hieverybody]

exactly. There is no good QB worth taking next year. So then we have to wait until 2012 to get the franchise guy. I would hope that by 2012 we are truning the corner and not grooming a rookie QB

I disagree. I think if Jake Locker had declared, he'd be the first QB taken this year.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

:bsflag:

Every year its a crapshoot.

2 years ago, no one was talking about Sanchez

Last year McCoy/Bradford/Tebow were the big hoopla.

Now one is a late round pick, one injured and the other looked upon to play a hybrid position.

Locker is the name out there right now, but some other QB will step up next year and be the next big thing.

...and Campbell is a late round pick that shows occasional flashes....a 5th year QB should be doing better than occasional flashes. Look past the stats. Stats are racked up in the 4th qtr when you're down by a bunch and playing catch up. That's been us. Once again, show me what he's done that would call him a winner besides a rating. When has he led a late comeback. He had plaenty of chances this year and didn;t do it.

[Veretax]

I'm not interested in getting into a JC debate. I'm no longer a JC supporter - I agree that QB is our biggest need. But trying to fill that need by drafting a QB #4 overall is short-term thinking because neither Clausen nor Bradford are franchise QBs.

See I disagree, the short term solution is what the Jets did Last Yaer. They Traded for Favre and tried to catch lightning in the bottle. Very few rookie QBs light it up in their first years. Peyton Manning was AWFUL his first year. When you draft a rookie QB you have to figure he's going to make mistakes, and he's going to take some lumps before he starts to get it. That goes for all rookies but especially QBs, the game is different at this level, period.

Drafting a QB early is most certainly NOT a short term strategy.... It is a strategy that suggests and in fact requires patience.

[GregBroChill]

Stats aren't everything I would take Sanchez over JC any day of the week. Sure his numbers are bad right now but he will only get better.

He may be a 5th on that list but it still doesn't matter JC is not a QB you build your team around. JC is a QB who can't take a team and put it on his back.

I'm just trying to make the point that of the 13 QBs selected in the first round in the past 5 years, JC came out ahead of the majority of them.

JC was a 25th pick, the lowest pick of all 13 QBs. There are 3 QBs selected before the #4 pick that JC is undeniably more successful than.

This is not a particularly strong year at QB.

With all that considered, statistically a QB picked at the #4 spot is likely to have less success than JC has.

I'm not saying we couldn't have great success picking a QB at the #4 spot. But we need to stop treating it as an automatic upgrade. Because more likely than not, it won't be.

Now I would love, as much as the next man, to have a Peyton Manning like player as a QB. But I think the smarter move would be to not gamble on a QB this year, but instead focus on the O-Line, which is a position where the #4 pick is FAR more likely to be an improvement over what we have.

[Oldskool]

...and Campbell is a late round pick that shows occasional flashes....a 5th year QB should be doing better than occasional flashes. Look past the stats. Stats are racked up in the 4th qtr when you're down by a bunch and playing catch up. That's been us. Once again' date=' show me what he's done that would call him a winner besides a rating. When has he led a late comeback. He had plaenty of chances this year and didn;t do it.[/quote']

A QB should have the same system from year to year.

A QB shouldn't have to play behind a patchwork OL

We can go round and round and round with excuses and counter excuses. The fact remains is that Campbell had a career year, played better than most NFL QB's this year, had statistically one of the worst OL, no running game and fans want to run him out of town.

This is stupidity.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

I disagree. I think if Jake Locker had declared, he'd be the first QB taken this year.

The problem is we'd have to be like 1-15 or 2-14 to guarantee it. Just one guy.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

A QB should have the same system from year to year.

A QB shouldn't have to play behind a patchwork OL

We can go round and round and round with excuses and counter excuses. The fact remains is that Campbell had a career year, played better than most NFL QB's this year, had statistically one of the worst OL, no running game and fans want to run him out of town.

This is stupidity.

sure he had admirable numbers, but I watched 16 games where he looked good at times, bad at others and inconsistent from drive to drive in the rest of the games. The double pumps, the hesitation at taking off, the locking in on one receiver, not seeing wide open receivers, overthrowing receivers by five feet on simple screens. His screen passes have always been atrocious.

[Oldskool]

sure he had admirable numbers' date=' but I watched 16 games where he looked good at times, bad at others and inconsistent from drive to drive in the rest of the games. The double pumps, the hesitation at taking off, the locking in on one receiver, not seeing wide open receivers, overthrowing receivers by five feet on simple screens. His screen passes have always been atrocious.[/quote']

No one here is saying he's Peyton Manning. I'm saying he's an adequate stop gap QB until we get the OL fixed and draft a "franchise QB" (in that order).

[ciscofan]

It may be hard to admit it, but Jason Campbell is one of the top 5 QBs drafted in the past 5 years.

But not past 6 years. That statement is misleading. Heck, Cutler has a better winning record and so does Vince Young.

[hieverybody]

See I disagree, the short term solution is what the Jets did Last Yaer. They Traded for Favre and tried to catch lightning in the bottle. Very few rookie QBs light it up in their first years. Peyton Manning was AWFUL his first year. When you draft a rookie QB you have to figure he's going to make mistakes, and he's going to take some lumps before he starts to get it. That goes for all rookies but especially QBs, the game is different at this level, period.

Drafting a QB early is most certainly NOT a short term strategy.... It is a strategy that suggests and in fact requires patience.

Developing a QB may take patience, but drafting one does not. If this front office really has their eyes on the future they will evaluate Bradford and Clausen in comparison with the QBs coming out in the future.

[hieverybody]

But not past 6 years. That statement is misleading. Heck, Cutler has a better winning record and so does Vince Young.

The point is that franchise QBs aren't available every year. This year is one of them.

[wildbill1952]

"Hey Yogi, It's deja vu all over again."

I have to agree with the OP. This is just the Cutler deal except we don't throw away two draft picks to get a guy that will stink behind our OL. There are no franchise QB's in this draft. At best, we'll have a number 12 pick that we drafted at number 4. A la Shuler, a la Ramsey, a la Campbell.

The first year excuse will be "He's learning the system. Give him time."

The second year excuse will be "He needs a better running game to complement his passing. Let's draft a running back to help him."

The third year excuse will be "We need to get some tall WR's or some short, fast WR's to open up the field for him."

The fourth year will be a return to, "We have to get a stud defense to shorten up the field."

The fifth year will be "It's time to draft a franchise QB and get a new Head Coach." And probably lots of threads about how a good QB makes the OL better.

Of course, during years 1 through 5 we'll have spent 3 picks somewhere between the 4th and 6th round drafting those stellar OL that can be found in the later rounds. Or like the Skins do now, we'll just take other team's OL rejects and Maryland's graduating OLine.

I'll believe Dan Snyder has changed his spots when I see it, but not until then. Unlike others, I didn't have the privilege to see Allen's contract where it says he gets to pick the players and Dan Snyder sits on the sidelines. I hope I'm wrong, but just changing the court jester doesn't usually make for a better king.

[generals01]

Just to recap from another thread - Of the top 10 QBs by passer rating this year, their draft positions are as follows:

Drew Brees - 2nd Round

Tom Brady - 6th Round

Brett Farve - 2nd Round

Aaron Rogers - Late first round

Tony Romo sits to pee - Undrafted

Kurt Warner - Undrafted

Matt Schaub - 3rd Round

That's 7 of the top 10 not an upper tier draft pick (yeah, sure, I hate Romo sits to pee too - Make it 6 then). Tell me again why its "necessary" that we draft a QB with the 4th pick of the draft???

Fact is, its easier to find QB busts in the beginning of the draft - worse, they cost lots more. While I'd be fine with an Olineman as the #4 pick, the more I think of it, the more I want us to trade down. We have LOTS of needs. I think most here would be fine if we traded down and got one QB and two Olinemen in the first two rounds (personally I'd prefer a RB over the QB but such is life).

This isn't the way to look at it.

First off, throw out Farve, Brees, Warner and Schaub since they were all free agent QBs. It is not often that you will be able to sign a high level qb in free agency.

And if you want to keep Schaub, for example, the way you are looking at this is idiotic. You don't look at one third rd qb and assume its easy to find a franchise qb in the third rd. You need to know how big the sample size is.

Take Matt Schaub. How many 3rd round qbs have been drafted in the past decade and how many have been effective starters?

Here is a list of every QB drafted in the 3rd round this decade (not including Schaub):

Kevin O'Connell, Trent Edwards, Charlie Whitehurst, Brodie Croyle, Andrew Walter, David Greene, David Ragone, Chris Simms, Josh McCown, Quincy Carter, Giovanni Carmazzi, and Chris Redman

Out of 13 quarterbacks, ONE is a decent starter/ let alone a freaking franchise quarterback. I would not want a single other player on this list other than Schaub as my qb.

Not to mention Schaub was in the same draft as Big Ben, Rivers and Manning. I would take these three over Schaub (who can't even stay healthy) any day.

Would you rather have pulled the trigger at the top of the draft in 2004 on a potential franchise qb like Rivers, or gone the "safer" route with an OL like Robert Gallery who had to switch to freaking guard. Great pick by the Raiders.

And while we are on that topic, first rd OL BUST AS WELL. Chris Williams (book is still out on him), Gosder Cherilus, Alex Barron, Robert Gallery, Leonard Davis (had to switch to G), Jeff Backus.

Hell, our own OL has one top 10 OL bust, Mike Williams, and another who did not live up to his status, Levi Jones.

And by your moronic logic that since Romo sits to pee was undrafted we don't need a 1st rd qb, than we also don't need a 1st rd OT since Jason Peters was undrafted

[BruinSkin]

Of those teams listed, I wanted to look at the numbers for the quarterback's second season with the team as opposed to the season right before the team drafted him. I believe the rookie year is always a crapshoot but the second year can tell you a little bit more about the player.

1997 Colts (Adam Meadows, Doug Widell, Jay Leeuwenburg, Tank Glenn, Tony Mandarich) 3-13 record, 41 sacks, 20th scoring offense

1999 Colts (Tarik Glenn, Steve McKinney, Larry Moore, Waverly Jackson, Adam Meadows) 13-3 record, 14 sacks, 3rd scoring offense

In Peyton's second season, he had 3 new starters (McKinney, Moore, and Jackson) with the returning two (Glenn and Meadows) switching positions along the line. McKinney was drafted in the 4th round of Peyton's draft, Moore was an UDFA, and Jackson was a free agent.

1998 Eagles (Tra Thomas, Jermane Mayberry, Hegamin, Steve Everitt, Ian Beckles, Richard Cooper) 3-13 record, 56 sacks, 30th scoring offense

2000 Eagles (Tra Thomas, John Welbourn, Bubba Miller, Jermane Mayberry, Jon Runyan) 11-5 record, 45 sacks, 12th scoring offense

In McNabb's second season, he had 3 new starters (Welbourn, Miller, and Runyan) with Mayberry switching to RG. Welbourn was a 4th round pick out of McNabb's draft, Miller was an UDFA from 2 years prior, and Runyan was a free agent.

2003 Giants (Luke Petitgout, Rich Seubert, Chris Bober, Wayne Lucier, David Diehl, Ian Allen) 4-12 record, 45 sacks, 30th scoring offense

2005 Giants (Luke Petitgout, David Diehl, Shaun O'Hara, Chris Snee, Kareem McKenzie) 11-5 record, 28 sacks, 3rd scoring offense

In Eli's second season, he had 3 new starters (Snee, O'Hara, and McKenzie) with Diehl switching from RG to LG. Snee was taken in the 2nd round of Eli's draft, and O'Hara and McKenzie were free agents.

2003 Steelers (Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith, Keydrick Vincent, Jeff Hartings, Kendall Simmons, Oliver Ross, Todd Fordham) 6-10 record, 42 sacks, 19th scoring

2005 Steelers (Marvel Smith, Alan Faneca, Jeff Hartings, Kendall Simmons, Max Starks) 11-5 record, 32 sacks, 9th scoring offense *Super Bowl Champs

In Ben's second season, they had 1 new starter (Max Starks) who was drafted in the 3rd round of Ben's draft.

2007 Falcons (Quinn Ojinnaka, Justin Blalock, Todd McClure, Kynan Forney, Tyson Clabo, Todd Weiner) 4-12 record, 47 sacks, 29th scoring offense

2009 Falcons (Sam Baker, Justin Blalock, Todd McClure, H. Dahl, Tyson Clabo) 9-7 record, 27 sacks, 13th scoring offense

In Ryan's second year, he had 2 new starters (Baker and Dahl). Dahl was a free agent and Baker was drafted in the 1st round of Ryan's draft.

2007 Ravens (Jonathan Odgen, Adam Terry, Jason Brown, Mike Flynn, Ben Grubbs, Chris Chester, Marshall Yanda) 5-11 record, 39 sacks, 24th scoring offense

2009 Ravens (Jared Ganther, Omiel Cousins, Ben Grubbs, Chris Chester, Matt Birk, Marshall Yanda, Michael Oher) 9-7 record, 36 sacks, 9th scoring offense

In Flacco's second year, they had 3 new starters (Gaither, Birk, and Oher). Ganther was a 5th round supplemental pick, Birk was a free agent, and Oher was a 1st round pick in this year's draft.

Alright, so I wanted to post this to say that if we do draft a QB with the #4 pick, there is no reason we can't shift players, draft guys, and acquire them through free agency. By (insert your favorite qb)'s second year, we could have a revamped line and be on the way to building long-term stability with a franchise qb. Then as the years progress like with a Peyton Manning or McNabb, you can continue to plug pieces around your quarterback.

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

A QB should have the same system from year to year.

A QB shouldn't have to play behind a patchwork OL

We can go round and round and round with excuses and counter excuses. The fact remains is that Campbell had a career year, played better than most NFL QB's this year, had statistically one of the worst OL, no running game and fans want to run him out of town.

This is stupidity.

So when Bruce Allen runs him out of town, will you blame the fans?

[SirClintonPortis]

I don't have a problem with a QB in the first round if he really has God-given talent ability. I doubt Shanahan would drafted a 1st round QB for the sake of drafting one though; the only first round QB he has EVER drafted was Cutler, and anyone can see that Cutler's physical skillset is amazing.

He's drafted more first round DBs, tall WRs, LBs, and OTs(although they turned out to be duds for the most part).

[icbmayday]

If we draft a QB it will be the same old Redskin tatics to me