WP: DC Sports Bog: Is Jason Campbell Un-clutch?

[SoCalSkins]

One last time- Yes, I understand you are using the Collins' run. We got it. Everyone's gotten it.

But when you are using the 05 team vs. the 06 team, just admit you are looking for anything you can to blame Campbell, no matter how shallow and ridiculous the logic.

I am posting the numbers of other QBs since JC has been here. They have made the playoffs with the same roster and won.

The only person here who has shallow and ridiculous logic is you. Seriously, do you know how absurd your posts are?

This is a summary: Let's talk about how bad the other players are instead of blaming JC, even though they had two playoff runs with other Qbs since JC has been here. Collins played well and made the playoffs. We know that so why bring it up. It only hurts my argument. Plus mentioning that JC also took over a playoff team from the year before in his first start is something not to be discussed.

It is not complicated. It doesn't require much analysis. It has been blatantly clear since 2006. Jason Campbell is not an NFL caliber QB. He simply can't win at this level on a regular basis. He is a loser.

[Shilsu]

No double standard (do you know what those words mean?).

When all their teams needed were to be put in FG position, Campbell delivered 1 of 2 times.

In the same situation, Brees delivered 1 of 2 times.

Brees also delivered once when his team needed a TD, but failed once as well.

Of course, the end of the first half could easily be called a "clutch" situation and Brees didn't deliver. He failed to move his team once, got bailed out by the Barnes fluke play. Then on his second chance, he threw a pick and got bailed out by the Moore/Meachem miracle.

Responding to that at the beginning of the second half was definitely "clutch" time and Campbell delivered with two scoring drives.

Trying to assess what the QBs did and removing the performance of the Ks isn't in any way a "double standard".

Yes, what you are displaying is a clear double standard, biased in the favor of Jason Campbell. Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say Drew Brees needed a TD instead of a FG? Can you explain to me WHY he needed a TD instead of a FG? If you are going to credit one, credit both. If you are going to count it as a failure for one, count it as a failure for both. Use consistent standards instead of your bull**** bias.

And how the hell does the end of the first half compare to the end of a game in terms of clutch situations? Yet another stupid statement.

[modazfuk]

When the 'Skins got the ball with GREAT field position (game tied) with more than enough time to get into FG range, did any of the Campbell homers really think the kicker would have another opportunity to redeem himself? Seriously?

[Rufus T Firefly]

I am posting the numbers of other QBs since JC has been here. They have made the playoffs with the same roster and won.

The only person here who has shallow and ridiculous logic is you. Seriously, do you know how absurd your posts are?

This is a summary: Let's talk about how bad the other players are instead of blaming JC, even though they had two playoff runs with other Qbs since JC has been here. Collins played well and made the playoffs. We know that so why bring it up. It only hurts my argument. Plus mentioning that JC also took over a playoff team from the year before in his first start is something not to be discussed.

It is not complicated. It doesn't require much analysis. It has been blatantly clear since 2006. Jason Campbell is not an NFL caliber QB. He simply can't win at this level on a regular basis. He is a loser.

You're using an irrelevant topic (the team was better in 05 than 06) with the flimsiest of rationales (Campbell was "here") to skew your stats.

You know it and I know it. Don't pretend any different.

[Shilsu]

You're using an irrelevant topic (the team was better in 05 than 06) with the flimsiest of rationales (Campbell was "here") to skew your stats.

You know it and I know it. Don't pretend any different.

Quit being delusional. You are the one skewing your stats, and now trying to bring in first half moments as examples of "clutch" or "unclutch". Get a grip.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Yes, what you are displaying is a clear double standard, biased in the favor of Jason Campbell. Do you know how ridiculous you sound when you say Drew Brees needed a TD instead of a FG? Can you explain to me WHY he needed a TD instead of a FG? If you are going to credit one, credit both. If you are going to count it as a failure for one, count it as a failure for both. Use consistent standards instead of your bull**** bias.

And how the hell does the end of the first half compare to the end of a game in terms of clutch situations? Yet another stupid statement.

Nope, not a double standard at all from me. They each had 2 situations where a FG would win the game. They each drove their team into reasonable FG position once. That's what's comparable in "clutch" situations between the two of them in that game.

Brees' team needed a TD to keep Washington from being a FG away from icing the game, a situation Campbell capitalized on, but Zorn, the running game and Suisham did not. Given the way Washington had marched up and down the field, everyone knew that settling for a FG had a real chance to be the moment that Brees blew his chance to win the game.

Never said the end of the first half was "comparable" to the end of the game, just that it was "clutch". Tying the game at the half was huge, especially with washington getting the ball to start the second half. Going down by two scores at halftime would have been even more huge, which is the position Brees put his team in twice, but got bailed out by fluke plays.

[Shilsu]

Nope, not a double standard at all from me. They each had 2 situations where a FG would win the game. They each drove their team into reasonable FG position once. That's what's comparable in "clutch" situations between the two of them in that game.

Brees' team needed a TD to keep Washington from being a FG away from icing the game, a situation Campbell capitalized on, but Zorn, the running game and Suisham did not. Given the way Washington had marched up and down the field, everyone knew that settling for a FG had a real chance to be the moment that Brees blew his chance to win the game.

Never said the end of the first half was "comparable" to the end of the game, just that it was "clutch". Tying the game at the half was huge, especially with washington getting the ball to start the second half. Going down by two scores at halftime would have been even more huge, which is the position Brees put his team in twice, but got bailed out by fluke plays.

Wow, your arguments get even more ridiculous. I guess that's desperation sinking in. Nobody refers to what you do at the end of the first half as clutch. Well, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'd have to seriously question what the hell they are talking about. It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Wasn't your original argument that there is no such thing as clutch and that pressure does not effect professional athletes?

Ridiculous statement after ridiculous statement.

Drew Brees brings his team back from a two-score deficit, and you claim he failed. Moronic.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Wow, your arguments get even more ridiculous. I guess that's desperation sinking in. Nobody refers to what you do at the end of the first half as clutch. Well, I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'd have to seriously question what the hell they are talking about. It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Wasn't your original argument that there is no such thing as clutch and that pressure does not effect professional athletes?

Ridiculous statement after ridiculous statement.

Drew Brees brings his team back from a two-score deficit, and you claim he failed. Moronic.

Keep the straw men arguments to yourself and get more creative with the insults. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

[Shilsu]

Keep the straw men arguments to yourself and get more creative with the insults. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about, but this guy accused me of constructing a straw man. Hey sounds like a nifty term, maybe if I use it I'll seem like I know what I'm talking about!

Take some logic courses. Maybe some mathematics and statistics while you're at it. It'll go a long way, and I'm not just talking about fixing your irrational arguments.

[[[ghost]]]

All you had to do last week was look on the other side of the field to find out what a clutch QB is. Down 10 pts with 2 mins left in the game, Breese takes his team down the field to tie and then in OT leads them down for the game winning FG. See ya JC!!!

So, in order to be clutch, you have to have the other team miss the easiest field goal of his career, and then have their safety bite on the same fake as earlier in the game?

No wonder Campbell never wins.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about, but this guy accused me of constructing a straw man. Hey sounds like a nifty term, maybe if I use it I'll seem like I know what I'm talking about!

Take some logic courses. Maybe some mathematics and statistics while you're at it. It'll go a long way, and I'm not just talking about fixing your irrational arguments.

LOL.

Keeping your team from going down two scores at halftime against a team that's going to get the ball to ball to start the second half seems like a pretty "clutch" situation to me.

Likewise, scoring from a TD from the 10 with 7 minutes left, to keep the other team (who have been moving the ball virtually at will) from being able to ice the game with nothing more than a FG seems "clutch" to me.

Go ahead and disagree. Go ahead and call me a moron for thinking it. But it's an opinion that doesn't seem completely ridiculous. Sorry.

[Newera]

It seems like the good late game TD/FG drives were when the team had its starting OL intact and doing well, and that the drives that ended in sacks and fumbles were resulting from a bad OL. I don't know the specifics for all the losses though, as they are not all listed. INTs could be on JC or could be due to lack of decent protection. However, even the Saints game, JC had relatively solid protection most of the game, and he played great overall. But late in the game they allowed defenders to get in his face more, and he threw a pick.

Keep in mind JC had just hurt his ankle and was limping around trying to get it to hold up so he could keep playing. Seems like some of that grit and determination I see some claim he lacks. He's been knocked around, his ankles have been banged up half the season, and he still plays his ass off. That says a lot about the type of player some claim he is not.

Yes the INT was untimely as we were nearing FG range. But how many of you can honestly say the next FG try would have been good after Suisham shanked the 23 yd chip shot? I'm not saying Campbell is 100% a clutch QB, I'm saying with a solid OL he can be, as he has usually given solid play when behind the starting OL.

Geez, how many "What If's" are you going to bring up. Losers make excuses. Jason has yet to be proven "Clutch." That's the fact. His quarterback rating in the pressure situations is 64%. That is not good.

If he would have driven us with the last possession and Suisham missed the kick, then I wouldn't blame Jason. The issue is that when we needed to respond in crunch time, we don't.

[Newera]

What did Brees do when we missed the field goal. He clapped and then promptly took his team down the field for the tieing score. He made plays. Regardless if Landry got burned. Drew performed in crunch time. He had one possession to tie the score. He did.

We got the ball back with one possession. We throw an interception. We were lucky it did not cost us the game. What I want to see from Jason in these last four games is better crunch time performance. It's as if the light has finally come on for him. He is definately playing better.

He's now playing to determine should we at least tag and tender him in the off-season.

[Drastik]

JC outplayed Brees.

Our defense choked (like it always does in the 4th quarter) and put pressure on our QB to single handily win the game again (like they always do to him) after he played an almost flawless game.

If we had a defense that could make a stop when the game is on the line. We'd be on a 4 game winning streak right now. Instead, for 3 consecutive games, the opposing team has marched down the field on their final possession and either tied the game or took the lead.

People will blame JC though, simply because they don't like him.

It's fair to call him unclutch because the defense consistently puts him in those situations though.... I suppose.

[Skinsinparadise]

I defend JC to his detractors on the board, don't think he's great but don't think he's bad either, to me he is so so.

In the clutch, I have little faith thus far in him doing anything, its just not been his drill. When Dallas needed the touchdown to win the game at the end against us, I just knew Tony Romo sits to pee would do it. Not because Romo sits to pee is a great QB, he's far from it, but he has the certain "it" IMO to deliver often when he absolutely needs to.

Our defense though gets on my nerve even more though. They can be stopping the opposing offense for most of the game but when the opposing team needs a key score at the end of the game, seems like the defense folds almost every time.

[TV aka TeeVeli aka BAMBAM30]

...The bottom line is if Suisham makes the chipshot we're not talking about any of this right now - that drive for the FG should have been the "clutch" drive where he made several good throws to get them right near the goalline. Coaches made the decision to run three times and then kick the chipshot - not his fault Suisham failed the team.

Totally agree

[Drastik]

Our defense though gets on my nerve even more though. They can be stopping the opposing offense for most of the game but when the opposing team needs a key score at the end of the game, seems like the defense folds almost every time.

Almost every time?

I cant recall the last time our defense has ever stopped a team when the game was on the line.

They failed against: Detroit, Carolina, Dallas, Philly#2, N.O.....

They didn't fail against Atlanta or the Giants in the clutch... they just let Michael Turner run all over them all day and allowed New York to complete every 3rd down pass they attempted.

Our defense is top 5 though. It's a shame a QB can't win with this spectacular defense.

[Botched]

Almost every time?

I cant recall the last time our defense has ever stopped a team when the game was on the line.

They failed against: Detroit, Carolina, Dallas, Philly#2, N.O.....

They didn't fail against Atlanta or the Giants in the clutch... they just let Michael Turner run all over them all day and allowed New York to complete every 3rd down pass they attempted.

Our defense is top 5 though. It's a shame a QB can't win with this spectacular defense.

2 of our 3 wins this season came after our defense stopped the other team on their final posession. First vs. St. Louis when the offense scored only 9 points, next vs. Tampa Bay after Campbell turned the ball over 4 times.

[Shilsu]

LOL.

Keeping your team from going down two scores at halftime against a team that's going to get the ball to ball to start the second half seems like a pretty "clutch" situation to me.

Likewise, scoring from a TD from the 10 with 7 minutes left, to keep the other team (who have been moving the ball virtually at will) from being able to ice the game with nothing more than a FG seems "clutch" to me.

Go ahead and disagree. Go ahead and call me a moron for thinking it. But it's an opinion that doesn't seem completely ridiculous. Sorry.

I'm glad you place so much importance at what happens after one half. Too bad a football game is made up of four quarters.

[Shilsu]

JC outplayed Brees.

Our defense choked (like it always does in the 4th quarter) and put pressure on our QB to single handily win the game again (like they always do to him) after he played an almost flawless game.

If we had a defense that could make a stop when the game is on the line. We'd be on a 4 game winning streak right now. Instead, for 3 consecutive games, the opposing team has marched down the field on their final possession and either tied the game or took the lead.

People will blame JC though, simply because they don't like him.

It's fair to call him unclutch because the defense consistently puts him in those situations though.... I suppose.

Another stupid post. Did Drew Brees let the Saints defense allowing the Redskins to score 30 points stop him from being clutch? No. But apparently, the Redskins allowing the Cowboys to score 7 points did, so the interception Jason Campbell throws at the end of that game (or any other game for that matter) is not his fault. Stupid.

[Drastik]

Another stupid post. Did Drew Brees let the Saints defense allowing the Redskins to score 30 points stop him from being clutch? No. But apparently, the Redskins allowing the Cowboys to score 7 points did, so the interception Jason Campbell throws at the end of that game (or any other game for that matter) is not his fault. Stupid.

Did I even speak on the interception that JC threw? Or did I reference the fact that our defense yet again put all the teams marbles on JC's shoulders after he played the best game any QB in the league has played against New Orleans. Stupid.

[Drastik]

2 of our 3 wins this season came after our defense stopped the other team on their final posession. First vs. St. Louis when the offense scored only 9 points, next vs. Tampa Bay after Campbell turned the ball over 4 times.

They can stop the worst 2 offensive teams in the league... that makes me feel better.

[Shilsu]

Did I even speak on the interception that JC threw? Or did I reference the fact that our defense yet again put all the teams marbles on JC's shoulders after he played the best game any QB in the league has played against New Orleans. Stupid.

I guess the Dallas Cowboys failed Tony Romo sits to pee by allowing the Redskins to score 6 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Tony Romo sits to pee's shoulders. The nerve. I guess the Philadelphia Eagles failed Donovan McNabb by allowing the Redskins to score 24 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Donovan McNabb's shoulders. So unfair. I guess the New Orleans Saints failed Drew Brees by allowing the Redskins to score 30 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Drew Brees' shoulders. What a crock.

Poor baby. Jason Campbell can't handle the pressure of winning a game?

[Skinsinparadise]

Almost every time?

I cant recall the last time our defense has ever stopped a team when the game was on the line.

They failed against: Detroit, Carolina, Dallas, Philly#2, N.O.....

They didn't fail against Atlanta or the Giants in the clutch... they just let Michael Turner run all over them all day and allowed New York to complete every 3rd down pass they attempted.

Our defense is top 5 though. It's a shame a QB can't win with this spectacular defense.

Ha, OK I have not quantified it, so its hard to say anything happens ALL of the time. But if you say it has happened every time, I won't argue, I was taking a shot at the defense there not defending it.

As for JC, I like him more than most on the board. Those interceptions in recent games in key drives bring me back to the Sean Taylor year -- he would play good in games like against Dallas and Tampa and then right at the end an INT.

Maybe its coincidence but yeah JC who played very good in the Saints game, still IMO needs to get over the hurdle of making a big play at the end of the game. Throughout the game I was telling people around me, JC is looking like a franchise QB. But two things struck me predictable at the end, and I told the people around me before hand:

1. The defense will give up the score and 2. JC will not lead a comeback. And yeah am far from one of JC's detractors, I have defended him quite vigorously. And still would, with the exception of this point.

[Drastik]

I guess the Dallas Cowboys failed Tony Romo sits to pee by allowing the Redskins to score 6 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Tony Romo sits to pee's shoulders. The nerve. I guess the Philadelphia Eagles failed Donovan McNabb by allowing the Redskins to score 24 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Donovan McNabb's shoulders. So unfair. I guess the New Orleans Saints failed Drew Brees by allowing the Redskins to score 30 points. Putting all the team's marbles on Drew Brees' shoulders. What a crock.

Poor baby. Jason Campbell can't handle the pressure of winning a game?

You're argumentative skills are lacking.

We're speaking on clutch performances here my friend. In case you failed to realize that.

Jason Campbell is NOT a clutch QB, everyone knows this. The fact of the matter is though, in SEVERAL games this season he finds a way to have his team in a position to win. Maintaining leads late into ballgames consistently.

However, out defense CONSISTENTLY relinquishes our team's lead on opponents final possessions. No one looks at this. Everyone just blames JC for being "unclutch".

It is what it is. Thats what comes with being a starting QB in the NFL.

That, and some people just have a personal bias against him, you being one.