DC Sports Bog - Concerning the love for Jack Kent Cooke....

[RainSleetSnowHAIL]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/11/concerning_the_love_for_jack_k.html

Very interesting read. Perhaps we look at history through rose-colored glasses?

With that being said, I'm sure this thread will mostly consist of:

"ZOMG!! JKC Won 3 Superbowls and Snyderatto Sucks!!!!1eleventy"

I'm very interested in some of our older members' opinions of these years.

[Stadium-Armory]

I remember The Squire as bing quite a Diva. Big time soap opeara guy, always in the news for one off field thing or another. But when you're winning, those sorts of things all took a back seat to the on field triumphs. Furthermore, JKCs antics were all off the field.

One thing that I find interesting is the balance that JKC took with the running of the team. Certainly Bobby and Joe were the hands on guys, but as outlined on numerous occasions, JKC was in on the big big decisions. Or when Bobby and Joe couldn't agree - which was often. So, at the end of the day, he was a diva off the field, but had a good recipe for how to manage the team and produce winners. (Is how I remember it).

[Redskins Anonymous]

I love that they brought up JKC and the Bolivian drug mule. I think the thing is that JKC's character flaws were buffered from the players and coaches by his management style and staff. Because Snyder controls so much, his character flaws are more visible.

I bash snyder often, but I will say as a family guy he seems far better than JKC. But that's just based off of what I know which is not much.

I just think JKC knew what he was and what he wasn't. He was every bit the ******* that Danny is, but he was in a different era and had a different style. He hired you and trusted you to do your job. If you were performing poorly, he didn't tell you how to do your job. He gave you time and then fired you with your dignity.

Snyder's style is totally opposite. But if JKC had the personal control that Danny has in his life, he wouldn't have married a Bolivian drug mule and left his estate up in the air. Danny would have never been in the position to buy the team and John Kent Cooke would own the team.

The story of the redskins is so unbelievable that you can't make this crap up.

EDIT / ANOTHER THOUGHT

We should also remember that JKC had the privilege of owning the LA Lakers before the Redskins, so he had less of a learning curve as far as owning a professional sports franchise.

[ttr77]

Of course registered voters IN DC didn't like Cooke in '94. He was shopping for land to build a stadium in Maryland and Virginia.

[Larry Brown #43]

Of course registered voters IN DC didn't like Cooke in '94. He was shopping for land to build a stadium in Maryland and Virginia.

Right. In fact, he may have already selected the Landover site by that point...I'm not quite sure. They were playing in the new stadium a mere three years later.

Anyway, while the piece is interesting, Steinberg basically cherry-picks a couple of fleeting moments in JKC's tenure when things weren't so great for the Skins. I'm sure there were moments where George Washington pissed off his constituents, but he still wound up on the dollar bill.

Bottom line, JKC liked to be kept informed, but that doesn't mean he called the shots. Perhaps in part because of his advanced age, JKC had no interest in having the level of involvement in football operations that Snyder has.

Knowing that JKC was up there in years, I remember thinking to myself, "man, what is ever going to happen with the Skins when JKC isn't around anymore?"

Little did I know at the time just how bad things could get.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Knowing that JKC was up there in years, I remember thinking to myself, "man, what is ever going to happen with the Skins when JKC isn't around anymore?"

Little did I know at the time just how bad things could get.

I have to admit. I always thought the guy would live forever

Him actually dying, even though he was an 80+ year old man never crossed my teenage mind

[ttr77]

I'm sure there were moments where George Washington pissed off his constituents, but he still wound up on the dollar bill.

I hear Dan has plans to institute 'Snyder Dollars'...which would be the only valid form of currency for use inside Fedex.

[NewCliche21]

I have to admit. I always thought the guy would live forever

Him actually dying, even though he was an 80+ year old man never crossed my teenage mind

I'm with you on that one. He was just a fixture at that point.

[TheLongshot]

Bottom line, JKC liked to be kept informed, but that doesn't mean he called the shots. Perhaps in part because of his advanced age, JKC had no interest in having the level of involvement in football operations that Snyder has.

I guess people forgot it was JKC who hired Norv. Casserly had no power to hire or fire coaches and never seemed to get along with Norv. While Norv was here, there was never any discussion of firing him, and even his son said that he felt Norv needed more time here.

It has been different in that JKC stuck with the same thing over and over again, while there has been a lot of turnover with Snyder's reign, but the results were not much different.

Cooke gets a pass because he presided over a winner. If Snyder also presided over a winner, he'd get just as much of a pass.

[DexterSackMachine]

Cooke was meddlesome at times. Joe Gibbs tells a story of Cooke trying to interfere in some football matter during training camp one year, in one of his books.

The proof is in the pudding though, Cooke amassed 3 championships and Snyder has never even made a conference championship.

[TheLongshot]

Cooke was meddlesome at times. Joe Gibbs tells a story of Cooke trying to interfere in some football matter during training camp one year, in one of his books.

The proof is in the pudding though, Cooke amassed 3 championships and Snyder has never even made a conference championship.

Let's correct that. Joe Gibbs amassed 3 championships, with Beathard and Casserly getting him the players. Cooke mostly just signed the checks. Hell, Cooke wanted to fire Gibbs in his first year and replace him with George Allen.

[88Comrade2000]

Why do you think he left the bulk of his estate to benefit charity.

[Redskins Anonymous]

Let's correct that. Joe Gibbs amassed 3 championships, with Beathard and Casserly getting him the players. Cooke mostly just signed the checks. Hell, Cooke wanted to fire Gibbs in his first year and replace him with George Allen.

Let's correct that; that is what the owner is SUPPOSED to do so JKC DID amass 3 championships as an OWNER.

[bluecrab]

Of course registered voters IN DC didn't like Cooke in '94. He was shopping for land to build a stadium in Maryland and Virginia.

Yeah, after Sharon Fat Dixon did everything in her power to keep JKC from building a stadium in DC or did you forget?

[bluecrab]

Right. In fact, he may have already selected the Landover site by that point...I'm not quite sure. They were playing in the new stadium a mere three years later.

Anyway, while the piece is interesting, Steinberg basically cherry-picks a couple of fleeting moments in JKC's tenure when things weren't so great for the Skins. I'm sure there were moments where George Washington pissed off his constituents, but he still wound up on the dollar bill.

Bottom line, JKC liked to be kept informed, but that doesn't mean he called the shots. Perhaps in part because of his advanced age, JKC had no interest in having the level of involvement in football operations that Snyder has.

Knowing that JKC was up there in years, I remember thinking to myself, "man, what is ever going to happen with the Skins when JKC isn't around anymore?"

Little did I know at the time just how bad things could get.

Wrong. He had the site on RT1 in Arlington near National Airport as the next site for his stadium and ran into heavy public opposition there.

Landover was his last stop before he died.

[suze109]

I remember JKC as very eccentric, slightly egotistical (most highly successful business people probably share that quality I'd guess), cantankerous, but also very charming, classy and just generally likeable.

You saw him occasionally on the sidelines at training camp, and in his box at all the games, interviewed by all of the local stations before the really big games, and of course after the SBs at the presentation of the Lombardi trophies.

But I don't think we ever got the feeling that the Redskins were his life and his "occupation". It was his hobby. A beloved hobby that made him exceedingly happy, but a hobby nonetheless. Maybe that was a key component to the success of the organization, I dunno ...

I know memories have a way of being colored in a more positive way as time goes on, but I definitely remember him very fondly.

[Larry Brown #43]

I guess people forgot it was JKC who hired Norv. Casserly had no power to hire or fire coaches and never seemed to get along with Norv. While Norv was here, there was never any discussion of firing him, and even his son said that he felt Norv needed more time here.

First off, JKC and his son are two different people. So just because John said Norv needed more time, that doesn't mean JKC would have agreed.

And to be fair to John, Norv was fired in-season in 2000--a move that even Snyder later said was a mistake. So Snyder and John apparently now agree on that issue.

For all we know, Norv would have been fired after the '97 season had JKC lived beyond April of '97. We just don't know.

It has been different in that JKC stuck with the same thing over and over again, while there has been a lot of turnover with Snyder's reign, but the results were not much different.

JKC endured three losing seasons ('93, '94, and '95) in what was a clear rebuilding situation, and then the team went 9-7 in '96 in JKC's last season as owner before his passing. This after a decade of brilliance on the field that included four Super Bowl appearances and three Super Bowl wins. I don't see how those results could in any way be considered similar to Snyder's results.

Cooke gets a pass because he presided over a winner. If Snyder also presided over a winner, he'd get just as much of a pass.

Well sure. And if Steve Spurrier went to four Super Bowls, he'd be in the Hall of Fame. But he didn't.

[Larry Brown #43]

Wrong. He had the site on RT1 in Arlington near National Airport as the next site for his stadium and ran into heavy public opposition there.

Landover was his last stop before he died.

So my entire post is wrong because of one minute detail that I admitted to being unsure of? Thanks pal.

[TheLongshot]

First off, JKC and his son are two different people. So just because John said Norv needed more time, that doesn't mean JKC would have agreed.

And to be fair to John, Norv was fired in-season in 2000--a move that even Snyder later said was a mistake. So Snyder and John apparently now agree on that issue.

Not really. The mistake is that Snyder fired him in the middle of the season instead of waiting til the end of the season. Norv was gone in 2000 no matter what. Snyder is also the guy who told Casserly later that he fired the wrong guy, suggesting that he should have kept Casserly and fired Norv. Personally, Casserly had enough issues and his time with the Texans hasn't changed my opinion of him much.

For all we know, Norv would have been fired after the '97 season had JKC lived beyond April of '97. We just don't know.

Actually, He gave him a new contract that year, so I don't think it was likely that after one season he was going to fire Norv, particularly since the 97 season wasn't bad.

JKC endured three losing seasons ('93, '94, and '95) in what was a clear rebuilding situation, and then the team went 9-7 in '96 in JKC's last season as owner before his passing. This after a decade of brilliance on the field that included four Super Bowl appearances and three Super Bowl wins. I don't see how those results could in any way be considered similar to Snyder's results.

My point was to not to give him too much credit for that superbowl run. Let's face it: aside from managing the relationship between Gibbs and Beathard and occasionally getting involved with contracts, Cooke didn't have much to do with the success of the team. It is apparently what people want of Snyder: stay out of the way of the football people doing their job. Course, Cooke was the one who chose Norv to succeed Pettibon, just as Snyder chooses his head coaches. Also, other than that and negotiating the big free agent deals, Snyder doesn't have much direct involvement with football operations. Snyder DOES mostly stay out of the way nowadays. Course, you can question Vinny's ability to run a team, but you could do the same for Casserly, and many fans did for years.

Well sure. And if Steve Spurrier went to four Super Bowls, he'd be in the Hall of Fame. But he didn't.

Snyder still has the opportunity to produce winners here as long as he's willing to try to bring the best people in here and spend the money.

[Larry Brown #43]

Not really. The mistake is that Snyder fired him in the middle of the season instead of waiting til the end of the season. Norv was gone in 2000 no matter what. Snyder is also the guy who told Casserly later that he fired the wrong guy, suggesting that he should have kept Casserly and fired Norv. Personally, Casserly had enough issues and his time with the Texans hasn't changed my opinion of him much.

Well, the Skins became a division-winning, playoff team by '99. So the misery we endured during the 90s actually did build up to something. To me, it's not shocking that things went south in 2000, after Snyder had a chance to exert his influence on the roster. Let's not forget...one of the first things Snyder said when he bought the team was he felt the Skins gave up too much for Brad Johnson. The fact that he even voiced an opinion on that was alarming to me at the time. And of course, just a year later we had Jeff George on the team.

I'm not saying that Norv was a great coach by any stretch. But I can understand how John feels in retrospect. All the lumps he and his dad took in the 90s finally built up to a playoff appearance in '99, and then Snyder goes hog wild in free agency in 2000 and spoils the broth of that team, and he blames it on the coach John and his dad worked with all those years. Not saying Norv wasn't at least partly to blame for what happened in 2000, but I can certainly understand John's frustration over the way things went down.

My point was to not to give him too much credit for that superbowl run. Let's face it: aside from managing the relationship between Gibbs and Beathard and occasionally getting involved with contracts, Cooke didn't have much to do with the success of the team.

And that's PRECISELY why he does deserve credit. No one ever claimed that Cooke won those championships because he was in charge of personnel and picked great players. He deserves credit for the championships because he knew his place as an owner. Unlike Jerry Jones, he didn't win three rings and then decide he knew football better than the people most responsible for getting him those rings. If Gibbs hadn't retired the first time, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because JKC never would have fired Gibbs.

It is apparently what people want of Snyder: stay out of the way of the football people doing their job. Course, Cooke was the one who chose Norv to succeed Pettibon, just as Snyder chooses his head coaches. Also, other than that and negotiating the big free agent deals, Snyder doesn't have much direct involvement with football operations. Snyder DOES mostly stay out of the way nowadays.

Fair point about Cooke hiring Norv, but I can live with the owner selecting a coach if he generally stays out of the way otherwise.

But I don't buy your assessment of Snyder's involvement one bit. Nor does Snyder's friend George Michael, who recently said on the air that Snyder chooses to go after guys like Haynesworth and other big-name players. Michael's assessment was that Vinny essentially handles the later-round draft picks, and Snyder picks the big-name guys. I like getting good players as much as anyone, but there are ramifications to signing big-name, big money players, and I just feel more comfortable with having someone who knows what they're doing handling those decisions.

Course, you can question Vinny's ability to run a team, but you could do the same for Casserly, and many fans did for years.

Sure. But the fact that Casserly was a less-than-stellar GM doesn't mean Vinny should be retained. As long as Vinny's here, I'll continue to blame Snyder. Snyder could fire Vinny this evening, if he wanted to.

Snyder still has the opportunity to produce winners here as long as he's willing to try to bring the best people in here and spend the money.

He has the opportunity to, sure. Snyder could be beloved in this town if he could keep his own ego in check, hire quality people, and let THEM win him a Super Bowl. As long as he wants to be the straw that stirs the drink, I think we'll struggle. But yes, he certainly could be beloved in this town if he chooses to do things the right way.

[dinkymark67]

Personally I don't remember that much about Cooke except when he accepted the Super Bowl trophies. Back then I just didn't pay much attention to what happened between the week and in the offseason. I didn't really give much thought to Cooke or what type of person he was. Of course the internet wasn't available for me to read up on every encounter someone may have had with the man. For me people like Gibbs and the players were the faces of the franchise.

BTW, people may want to read Mark May's book about his playing days. That was an entertaining read in my opinion.

[ttr77]

Yeah, after Sharon Fat Dixon did everything in her power to keep JKC from building a stadium in DC or did you forget?

Did I forget? No. Just because Dixon was likely to blame didn't make DC residents less angry at Cooke. Did YOU forget how important the Redskins were to the city of DC?

[Metskins]

I guess people forgot it was JKC who hired Norv. Casserly had no power to hire or fire coaches and never seemed to get along with Norv. While Norv was here, there was never any discussion of firing him, and even his son said that he felt Norv needed more time here.

It has been different in that JKC stuck with the same thing over and over again, while there has been a lot of turnover with Snyder's reign, but the results were not much different.

Cooke gets a pass because he presided over a winner. If Snyder also presided over a winner, he'd get just as much of a pass.

In all fairness, everyone thought that Norv coming here was a great hire.

[McD5]

Not to take away from the merits of the article, or the topic.

But why are most of these threads that defend Snyder, or paint others in a negative light, often times started by either brand new posters, or posters who have never made even a single thread before.

It is just my opinion, and no offense to the OP, but I have to discount the intentions of such a thread when I notice these things.

[Mark The Homer]

Not to take away from the merits of the article, or the topic.

But why are most of these threads that defend Snyder, or paint others in a negative light, often times started by either brand new posters, or posters who have never made even a single thread before.

It is just my opinion, and no offense to the OP, but I have to discount the intentions of such a thread when I notice these things.

Me too.

The difference is extreme fans (who are extremely well-informed of everything that's going on) vs casual fans (who know little more than what they occasionally read in the newspaper and who develop opinions based on ****).