TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I bash snyder often, but I will say as a family guy he seems far better than JKC. But that's just based off of what I know which is not much. RA, great post overall...and I wanted to comment on this piece. That's a fantastic point. Anything is possible, but I don't get the impression that the current owner is anything but a dedicated and loving husband and father. To most of us, that's a distant second to his inability to run this organization, but it should not be forgotten. In all this flurry of anti-ownership protests and comments, I think it's very important that we keep it to a professional level. And, to the topic at hand, I think it's easy when teams are winning to laugh off some of the "characters" involved. Those teams under Gibbs had all sorts of questionable events and people. Just off the top of my head: 1) Barry Wilburn was in trouble for drugs 2) Dexter Manley was in trouble for drugs, always running his mouth, etc. 3) Jack Kent Cooke was in the news a lot 4) Gary Clark occasionally showed up his coaches and threw fits 5) Mark Rypien held out for a new contract after being labeled as nothing more than a playoff choker (after 1990) Aside from the Redskins (and football), when Manny Ramirez does something stupid he's just "Manny being Manny". If he did that in a Blue Jays or Orioles uniform, he'd be bashed. Winning is a great deodorant. I'm not saying that this current team doesn't have its share of issues and arguably more than other teams. But when you win, those issues are overlooked and when you lose, they are blamed for your loses. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/book/pages/192.htm Jack Kent Cooke was a loud, bullying, profane man. He had little patience, and he didn't suffer fools lightly. He also was one of the best owners in sports. The Redskins had wonderful days of glory in some of his years, and at least stayed competitive in others, while they played in the NFL's smallest stadium. They lost money virtually every year but continued to spend it because Cooke wanted to win so badly. He had strong opinions, and he challenged his coaches and general managers when they disagreed with him. But he usually followed their recommendations. PCS, the passages you highlighted essentially mesh with what Coach Gibbs has always said about Mr. Cooke. Cooke would bring Gibbs into his office, and Cooke would grill Gibbs on a pending decision or a particular request that Gibbs had made. And Gibbs would have to fiercely justify his position. And at the end of the discussion, Cooke would wag his finger at Gibbs and say, "you better be right." Cooke may have even pushed the limits of an owner's boundaries at times, but hey, once Snyder has won three Super Bowls, I'll probably be somewhat ok with him sticking his nose into things a bit too, within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofMcboof Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 JKC has been the owner for my two favorite sports teams, the Redskins and the Lakers. He knew the sports business inside out amassing 3 superbowls and 7 nba finals appearances. Cherry picking a poll done towards the end of his life and bringing his personal life into the discussion is plain stupid. Yes JKC was very involved but he had a long track record of success in the sports business. Danny Snyder has zero record of sports success and has a fraction of the knowledge that JKC had in producing a winning franchise. There are no rose colored glasses on, his winning percentage is there for everyone to look at. In the 15 or so years with the Lakers he had only THREE losing seasons. For crying out loud, he reached the NBA Finals half the time he was there. In the 23 or so years with the Redskins, he had only 5 losing seasons, three of which came after the last superbowl win in '91. FIVE. IN 23 YEARS. That is a RIDICULOUS record of success. I'm sure he might have been pressing for more wins towards the end of his life if only because he knew that he didn't have much time left. You have to be a special kind of fool to attempt to discredit JKC or diminish his role in attaining all those wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 i'm still a tad UPSET!!!!! with jack for not leaving the team to john. we would not be in this mess today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 JKC has been the owner for my two favorite sports teams, the Redskins and the Lakers. He knew the sports business inside out amassing 3 superbowls and 7 nba finals appearances. Cherry picking a poll done towards the end of his life and bringing his personal life into the discussion is plain stupid.Yes JKC was very involved but he had a long track record of success in the sports business. Danny Snyder has zero record of sports success and has a fraction of the knowledge that JKC had in producing a winning franchise. There are no rose colored glasses on, his winning percentage is there for everyone to look at. In the 15 or so years with the Lakers he had only THREE losing seasons. For crying out loud, he reached the NBA Finals half the time he was there. In the 23 or so years with the Redskins, he had only 5 losing seasons, three of which came after the last superbowl win in '91. FIVE. IN 23 YEARS. That is a RIDICULOUS record of success. I'm sure he might have been pressing for more wins towards the end of his life if only because he knew that he didn't have much time left. You have to be a special kind of fool to attempt to discredit JKC or diminish his role in attaining all those wins. BTW, you left out his ownership of the Kings, which didn't do a damn thing. Course, it was an expansion franchise. I think you inadvertently added something to the discussion in that Cooke comes from a different era where it didn't require huge amounts of money to own a sports franchise. It makes it easier to move up in the ranks, so to speak. Nowadays, there isn't any way to get that type of experience before hitting the big leagues. Most of the expansion has happened and it has become hugely expensive to run a sports franchise. I mean, what kind of experience does Zigi Wilf have? Randy Lerner? (Or his father before him) In a lot of ways, all of these guys are learning their way through things. Wilf has some success right now, but the Browns are a mess. BTW, the point of this article isn't to denigrate Cooke. The point is that Cooke was human and made errors, just as Snyder has made errors. Cooke had the good fortune to have a HOF coach and the ability to get players for them. Snyder is still searching for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boofMcboof Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Both owners were/are hands on, but JKC also knew what he was doing. He was great at managing people and putting together a great team of knowledgeable people wherever he went. The mistakes Steinberg is pointing to come after a career of success. JKC earned the fans trust to do what he saw fit. Danny Snyder on the other hand, is hands-on while being completely clueless about football (in relation to his peers) and a poor manager of people. He refuses to put together a competent management team that might endanger is sense of authority. Snyder has not earned the trust of the fans to continually screw up and not be held accountable. That's the difference. Signing big name players is fine, they fill the seats. They just have to fit into the overall strategy. One of the reasons the Lakers win so consistently is that from the top down, era to era, everyone understands that a franchise center is the key to winning consistently. Year to year, they build their team accordingly. Danny Snyder signs big name players to patch holes without an over-arching strategy. Learning the ropes on the job is fine. Mistakes are fine. Just have enough humility and self-awareness to stop making the same mistakes over and over. Lack of experience isn't an excuse for poor people skills and lack of desire to hire the right people to cover for that inexperience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Not to take away from the merits of the article, or the topic.But why are most of these threads that defend Snyder, or paint others in a negative light, often times started by either brand new posters, or posters who have never made even a single thread before. It is just my opinion, and no offense to the OP, but I have to discount the intentions of such a thread when I notice these things. I would gladly start a thread to organize all the fans who have not given up on the team and defend the team but as you see NNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 If it was up to you, we'd still be drinking tea for the queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 If it was up to you, we'd still be drinking tea for the queen. Beats drinking tea dressed up as a queen, but what you do as pregame ritual is none of me business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 BTW, you left out his ownership of the Kings, which didn't do a damn thing. Course, it was an expansion franchise. In fairness, Cooke was the one who initially planted the idea of trading for Gretzky. But Edmonton was not interested until much later in the decade. Cooke had a great quote about the Kings. He pushed for the Kings saying that there were 2 million displaced Canadians in Southern California, which meant there would be a huge built-in fan base. Later he said, "Now I know why they to California. They hate hockey." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanJPD Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I remember The Squire as bing quite a Diva. Big time soap opeara guy, always in the news for one off field thing or another. But when you're winning, those sorts of things all took a back seat to the on field triumphs. Furthermore, JKCs antics were all off the field. One thing that I find interesting is the balance that JKC took with the running of the team. Certainly Bobby and Joe were the hands on guys, but as outlined on numerous occasions, JKC was in on the big big decisions. Or when Bobby and Joe couldn't agree - which was often. So, at the end of the day, he was a diva off the field, but had a good recipe for how to manage the team and produce winners. (Is how I remember it). Precisely. The Sports Bog item was doo doo and clearly it was a slow day. Cooke was the best owner ever in this town. That's indisputable. And he was smart enough to keep his eccentricities off the field and away from the team. And he ALWAYS treated the fans well. They were the LAST team to require that season ticket holders buy the pre-season games for example. And he didn't do the psls with the new stadium even though many others were. Finally, the very fact that he paid for the stadium out of his pocket and didn't do a corporate welfare appeal a la Baltimore is to his everlasting credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanJPD Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 BTW, you left out his ownership of the Kings, which didn't do a damn thing. Course, it was an expansion franchise.I think you inadvertently added something to the discussion in that Cooke comes from a different era where it didn't require huge amounts of money to own a sports franchise. It makes it easier to move up in the ranks, so to speak. Nowadays, there isn't any way to get that type of experience before hitting the big leagues. Most of the expansion has happened and it has become hugely expensive to run a sports franchise. I mean, what kind of experience does Zigi Wilf have? Randy Lerner? (Or his father before him) In a lot of ways, all of these guys are learning their way through things. Wilf has some success right now, but the Browns are a mess. BTW, the point of this article isn't to denigrate Cooke. The point is that Cooke was human and made errors, just as Snyder has made errors. Cooke had the good fortune to have a HOF coach and the ability to get players for them. Snyder is still searching for both. Cooke was smart enough to hire good people and get out of their way. Snyder doesn't do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanJPD Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 RA, great post overall...and I wanted to comment on this piece. That's a fantastic point. Anything is possible, but I don't get the impression that the current owner is anything but a dedicated and loving husband and father. To most of us, that's a distant second to his inability to run this organization, but it should not be forgotten. The Redskins could be headed to their worst season since integration of the team in the early 60's and we're supposed to sing Kumbaya because Snyder isn't cheating on his wife? I'll take Cooke any day along with his Super Bowl trophies and his wild latin women riding down Wisconsin on the hood of a car. You can keep the lousy teams and Danny Boy's Leave it to Beaver family life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_da_wood Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yeah, after Sharon Fat Dixon did everything in her power to keep JKC from building a stadium in DC or did you forget? He should have kept his hands to himself instead of pinching your mayor's butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The Redskins could be headed to their worst season since integration of the team in the early 60's and we're supposed to sing Kumbaya because Snyder isn't cheating on his wife? I'll take Cooke any day along with his Super Bowl trophies and his wild latin women riding down Wisconsin on the hood of a car. You can keep the lousy teams and Danny Boy's Leave it to Beaver family life. So much for being fair and objective. Luckily, I never said I preferred the current owner over Cooke. I just think it's occasionally OK to compliment or give credit to someone you disagree with. But, keep changing arguments around in an attempt to make points. That's working out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanJPD Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So much for being fair and objective. Luckily, I never said I preferred the current owner over Cooke. I just think it's occasionally OK to compliment or give credit to someone you disagree with. But, keep changing arguments around in an attempt to make points. That's working out well for you. Sorry guy, it is a meaningless point. Kind of like Mrs. Lincoln saying that the play was good. Or a Titanic survivor complimenting the dance band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sorry guy, it is a meaningless point. Kind of like Mrs. Lincoln saying that the play was good. Or a Titanic survivor complimenting the dance band. Disagree buddy. All of this anger and dissatisfaction is within the context of football. Everyone involved is a human being with many more dimensions than how poorly they perform their jobs. Just as you aren't defined by whatever it is you do, the same goes for the incompetent people running the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsair_joe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I remember that this team was complete ass for 7 years before Snyder bought it and has continued to be **** since. We have to realize that this team hasn't been quality since 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Here is an interview of Jack Kent Cooke late in his time. I think you will see why we loved the guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rma4BT23Nw Here is one of the first interviews Dan Snyder gave after he was approved to own the Redskins. 10 years later, he has not achieved his goals, at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAtOW2AnAjM&NR=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Cooke was smart enough to hire good people and get out of their way. Snyder doesn't do either. As Cooke says in his interview I put up earlier, sports was a hobby, and he wanted to have fun, so he hired the best. For Snyder, it is a business, and he has made the team into one of the most profitable sports enterprises, one which is no fun for any of us bill payers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMeast Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Maybe he was a crazy old geezer but I will forever cherish the JKC years. So far there isn't much to love from the Danny years. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGibbs3.0 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 How could anyone argue with long shot. He is comparing a guy who built dynastys in the Lakers and the redskins. To a owner who is the laughing stock of sports. This is like comparing a cuban super model to a generic girl in terms of looks. You can't compare. I understand longshot is one of those guys who defends everything we do. But it takes away credibility when you argue everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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