I have found my Redskins freedom

[DCsportsfan53]

You know wednesday is tomorrow and we will all feel a little better and Thursday we'll even better. By the time Sunday rolls around we'll all have ourselves convinced we are the next Patriots.

One of the reasons I made this thread is because, up until this past week, that's the way it had always been for me. The reason I made it is because, for the first time last week, I think it fully set in for me. Wednesday, Thursday, Firday, Saturday came and went for me and I never forgot who we really are and allowed the delusion to take hold. It was the most relaxed Sunday I've ever spent at FedEx Field. I still made plenty of noise, but the nerves were non-existent, the worry was gone because I knew that in the big picture, regardless of what happened that day, we are who we thought we were and we let ourselves off the hook. We're Dan Snyder's Redskins.

[maskedsuperstar]

2003 gave us Derrick Dockery and trash.

2004 gave us Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley and trash.

2005 gave us Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell, and a bunch of trash.

2006 gave us Rocky McIntosh in the 2nd. Reed Doughty, round 6! Kedric Golston, round 6!

2007 gave us Landry and then HB Blades in round 6. London Fletcher thinks this kid can be like him, I like it.

2008 gave us Chad Rinehart in round 3 (looked fine against Tampa). Justin Tryon in round 4.....there are not many dime corners in the NFL better than Tryon. Find me a few, I dare you. Kareem Moore, 6th round, shown huge potential flashes. Everyone's favorite Colt Brennan came in round 6. Rob Jackson in the 7th. We took gambles on three receivers early, and we'll soon find out if it was worth it. It's looking like a no, but we took players that many teams valued highly.

2009 gave us Orakpo (BEAST!) and Marko Mitchell in round SEVEN! Kevin Barnes in round 3 - homegrown product, big potential.

Wanna talk undrafted? How about Stephon Heyer??? Talk about an incredible pickup. Dude is UNDRAFTED and I haven't seen him get beaten once this season in pass pro. Marcus Mason, hometown product, potential to be an every down back. Chris Wilson looks like a legit speed rusher. Lorenzo Alexander is the Leon Washington of the trenches. Put the guy at any position, he'll be serviceable.

The free agents we got this year have been successful. Hall sucked at first but he saved that game against Tampa. Haynesworth and Hunter Smith have made huge impacts.

Our talent evaluation, while not Patriot-esque, has improved by HUGE amounts. How can you say it hasn't?

And to add on this. The defense? Since 2000, the defense hasn't finished in the top 10 twice. 2003 and 2006. So, lets think about that. Can't find talent? This will prove many wrong.

The problem has been too many systems. And if a team is going to be successful, it must stay in that system. Eagles, Patriots, Colts, Steelers etc. Talent has a lot to do with it also, but................constant change=doomed.

[20April1980]

I love this tough guy mentality form behind a key board. I bet you are bumping chests with your mouse right about now.

Question for you, does the fact that I am reading this board right now, and having multiple co-workers walk by and heckle me, mock me, and tell me "it's hopeless" (while laughing the whole time) ... and yet i still want more Redskins talk ... make me a "Fairweather Fan"?

How's about you don't get your panties all in a wad and think you are some hot stuff because you have decided that we are a better team then our record indicates.

I know plenty of folks in this thread are for the most part optimists, homers or whatever you want to call them ... but "Fairweather"? GTFOOH clown.

Oh, and if we do win this Sunday ... at least you will know its because you are a "TRUE FAN."

HAIL.

I said the same **** to some hater at the Rams ES after game tailgate.

And if you were here in person I would say the same **** to you.

[ThePreciating]

Because it is not part of an overall plan/system.

Ideally you draft a guy to be part of a system that will be around for a while and draft them so that they fit within the context of the system you run.

However the system keeps changing, the roles keep changing and a guy we draft in 2007 may no longer fit on the team we are trying to run in 2010.

Despite talent evaluation getting "better" the results on the field, both on offense and defense, have gotten worse

The team is old, its hallow, there is no speed, and the worst part is the team is not improving. Do you think in week 15 you will see a team better then today?

Do you see a team that is being built to compete in 2011?

So if we finally have stability, despite the slow results, why do you want to tear it down now?

And frankly, yes I do see a team that is built to compete.

With an upgrade at quarterback and running back, I think you're looking at a championship caliber team. I know it's hard to swallow that after losing to the Lions, but it's truth. I do not understand why we refuse to give this team longer than four games to gel.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You don't hear Cowboys fans ****ing all the time. You're just being a big baby. The Cowboys have two fewer playoff wins than we do since 1996 (the Dan Snyder era) but no one hates on Jerry Jones. It's fans like you that hold this team down instead of offering constructive, objective thoughts. It's not "here's what Snyder should have done," it's "we're not undefeated, Snyder is the worst owner ever." Take your idiocy and go root for another team. I speak for all true Redskins fans when I say WE DON'T WANT YOU.

Have you read the Cowgirl boards?

On top of that, Jerry has some capital because of 3 rings.

What does Dan Snyder have? 1 division title the first year he took over the team? Bringing back Joe Gibbs?

The point is, I could care less what Cowgirl fans think of their team. What Cleveland Brown fans, what Tennessee Titan fans, etc etc

We are the Washington ****ing Redskins. The greatest team in the world. And the current leadership/ownership of the team has not lived up to the tradition and standards of the Washington Redskins.

Instead its destroyed any tradition and is quickly destroying one of the 5 star teams in NFL history.

And I won't stand by and support an ownership group that destroys the best brand in football.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Let them go. I say GTFO!!!!

We won and that was not good enough :doh:

They are all fake fans. Nothing can make me not support the skins. Even 0-16.

rest of these fake fans can go to hell

Pathetic. This thread has nothing to do with abandoning ship on the Redskins, this is just what happens when a few die hard fans reach the acceptance stage of the five stages of grief. We've been through the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and the depression... and I can quite honestly say that its a relief to finally divest yourself of all that false hope.

We are what we are. I will still watch every game from here on out and attend the home games for the rest of the season but I won't live and die on a play-by-play basis to the extent that I have in the past. Things are in perspective.

[Dick Edds]

I said the same **** to some hater at the Rams ES after game tailgate.

And if you were here in person I would say the same **** to you.

oh I bet you would tough guy ... and thanks for further proving my point!

[bird_1972]

Are you kidding? You're not a fan.

I booed when the team was looking abysmal in the first half, but clearly you're one of the guys booing after the win.

I didn't boo at all, actually. I yelled at Campbell every time he threw a pick and did something stupid (so much so that I nearly lost my voice).

I don't need to prove my fanship to you or anyone else.

Snyder has ruined something I love. I've realized it for a while but it wasn't until after the Detroit game that things came crashing down for me. Since that time, I haven't been able to stay off the boards here - I guess I don't know where else to voice my frustration (and yes, I realize the irony of doing this on a site owned by Snyder, himself).

Fans like me "don't hold this team down" - enablers like you hold it down by continuing to support an owner who is either:

a) concerned about money over the fans

too stupid to run an organization properly

c) a huge egomaniac who is too dysfunctional to admit to his own faults

or

d) all of the above

You are a fool, my friend, a fool.

[SkinsHokieFan]

So if we finally have stability, despite the slow results, why do you want to tear it down now?

And frankly, yes I do see a team that is built to compete.

With an upgrade at quarterback and running back, I think you're looking at a championship caliber team. I know it's hard to swallow that after losing to the Lions, but it's truth. I do not understand why we refuse to give this team longer than four games to gel.

Really? You think we are actually 2 players away?

Lets break it down:

1) You have a coach who doesn't have a clue how to run his system, nor have a clue how to set up a defense. He is a terrific QB coach and JC's mechanics are night and day better since Zorn came.

However this team has regressed on Zorn's side of the ball the longer he has been here. At this point last year you actually had a functioning NFL offense. The longer Zorn has been here, the worse it has gotten.

2) You have no o-line depth whatsoever. One guy goes down and the thing falls apart. We can't run to the right side, and barely can to the left

3) You have 3 pass catchers drafted in the 2nd round of 2008 that for some reason or another have failed to develop or were just not that good to begin with. 1 catch for -1 yard between the 3 of them is unacceptable in year 2

4) You have an over rated, getting older defense. I have said enough about D-Hall to write a book. Carlos Rogers got ripped in Detroit. You have no playmakers at the LB spot. AH is not worth 100 million dollars. Laron Landry still cannot read a play and misses tackles and for some reason has not developed. Really you have London Fletcher, who is in his mid 30s and will not be here in 2011, Orakpo (who is a stud) and Horton/Doughty that are providing value and will be around long term.

5) You have special teams that loses yardage and provides no big play or spark

6) There is no long term plan in the front office. 2nd and 6th round picks are traded for Jason Taylor. Picks are being offered up for Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez. 100 million spent on Albert Haynesworth. The rumor mill has already buried Jim Zorn unless he makes the playoffs and wins a game

Lets face it, this team needs a new FO, with a real GM that has power, and a long term plan put in place to break the team down and rebuild it with lots of draft picks. It won't happen unless things get very ugly and the fans are borderline ready to riot

Right now this is an old team that is only going to get worse

[maskedsuperstar]

We find out a lot about our fans, when the team goes through some adversity. Things haven't gone well, true enough. We have pointed fingers at everything. Yes, we are frustrated. I don't care how bad things get. Keep your chins up. Things will get better. Wear your colors. You are all proud Redskins fans. If you weren't, you wouldn't be here.

Its okay to vent. But lets not turn on each other. Peace!!!

[KingGibbs]

I did. And 4 years ago when I met you I never would assumed you would post some of the stuff you have posted.

I think some of you need to take a step back.

We got people talking about redskins freedom after a win!!!!

You can love your wife till it hurts that does not mean you get to beat her. See my point.

I have lost faith and most of you.

Hey King we won this week.

I see you ignored my comment about defending JC and Zorn.

No, I don't see your point when using the wife/Redskins analogy. It makes no sense.

I don't think you ubderstand what some of us mean by "freedom." It means that some of us have resigned to the fact that we won't accept Snyderatto lead us to believe that this year will be better then the last.

You fail to look at the big picture.

BTW. You said you respected me when you met me, but your opinion of me changes because my opinion differs from yours? I would think that one could be a better judge of someone that they actually meet in person vs some message board.

[CounterTrey]

I completely agree with the OP. After the Lions game, I just sat there and watched mainly in silence and disbelief. I didn't get too emotional when we screwed up and when we did something great.

Also, I never celebrate now when we have a great play, I always look at the screen and wait to hear if we have a flag on the play because I have been burned so many times in the past.

[SWFLSkins]

So if we finally have stability, despite the slow results, why do you want to tear it down now?

And frankly, yes I do see a team that is built to compete.

With an upgrade at quarterback and running back, I think you're looking at a championship caliber team. I know it's hard to swallow that after losing to the Lions, but it's truth. I do not understand why we refuse to give this team longer than four games to gel.

I agree four games don't make a season. And losing to the Lion's, well someone had to, and the Skins are good at doing that. The Lions played well this week.

I think there are options on this team at RB, and maybe even QB. Jason should be given until the bye to show some consistency, if not, give Todd his shot. Ignoring the OL has again cost this team on the offensive side of the ball. Not being able to pound the ball in from >5 and goal is not championship anything.

[bird_1972]

So if we finally have stability, despite the slow results, why do you want to tear it down now?

And frankly, yes I do see a team that is built to compete.

With an upgrade at quarterback and running back, I think you're looking at a championship caliber team. I know it's hard to swallow that after losing to the Lions, but it's truth. I do not understand why we refuse to give this team longer than four games to gel.

We are old. Very old.

Our running game stinks.

Our run defense stinks.

No one in the front office or coaching staff seem to be accountable to the fans for the overall poor performance of the team.

The players play like they've mailed it in already.

Can you please tell me again what team you are watching, 'cause it ain't the Redskins.

[Die Hard]

As I've mentioned a few times... I didn't renew my NFL Sunday Tickets this year that I've enjoyed and appreciated since 1999.

5 years ago I took up coaching.... because I felt helpless cheering and not having an impact on this frustrating franchise.. that I decided to be proactive about my football participation and actually make a difference. And it's helped immensely.... it started my detachment with the Redskins.

I watched the first 2 games this year on TV (national broadcast).... and I watched football while the Lions game was on. I couldn't help but go to the computer every once in awhile to watch the meltdown

And this past Sunday..... I was on the golf course with my brother. He checked NFL scores on his Iphone between holes. And all we did was laugh at the score.

Art asked me if I wanted to attend any games this year on behalf of ES.com for coverage. I declined.

This franchise has lost me a long time ago... for a variety of reasons that have been stated before. They're not getting another penny from me.

I'm just a casual Redskins observer now.... until I witness a change I can BELIEVE in... like signing Bill Cowher and handling over FULL control.... and firing Cerrato.

Until then.... it's all a sham.

Other than ES.com... I don't talk Redskins football. I talk all kinds of football OTHER than the Skins. And if somebody approaches me about the Skins.... I say "I know... we suck." And I change the topic.

[bird_1972]

Really? You think we are actually 2 players away?

Lets break it down:

1) You have a coach who doesn't have a clue how to run his system, nor have a clue how to set up a defense. He is a terrific QB coach and JC's mechanics are night and day better since Zorn came.

However this team has regressed on Zorn's side of the ball the longer he has been here. At this point last year you actually had a functioning NFL offense. The longer Zorn has been here, the worse it has gotten.

2) You have no o-line depth whatsoever. One guy goes down and the thing falls apart. We can't run to the right side, and barely can to the left

3) You have 3 pass catchers drafted in the 2nd round of 2008 that for some reason or another have failed to develop or were just not that good to begin with. 1 catch for -1 yard between the 3 of them is unacceptable in year 2

4) You have an over rated, getting older defense. I have said enough about D-Hall to write a book. Carlos Rogers got ripped in Detroit. You have no playmakers at the LB spot. AH is not worth 100 million dollars. Laron Landry still cannot read a play and misses tackles and for some reason has not developed. Really you have London Fletcher, who is in his mid 30s and will not be here in 2011, Orakpo (who is a stud) and Horton/Doughty that are providing value and will be around long term.

5) You have special teams that loses yardage and provides no big play or spark

6) There is no long term plan in the front office. 2nd and 6th round picks are traded for Jason Taylor. Picks are being offered up for Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez. 100 million spent on Albert Haynesworth. The rumor mill has already buried Jim Zorn unless he makes the playoffs and wins a game

Lets face it, this team needs a new FO, with a real GM that has power, and a long term plan put in place to break the team down and rebuild it with lots of draft picks. It won't happen unless things get very ugly and the fans are borderline ready to riot

Right now this is an old team that is only going to get worse

:applause::applause::applause:

[20April1980]

I see you ignored my comment about defending JC and Zorn.

No, I don't see your point when using the wife/Redskins analogy. It makes no sense.

I don't think you ubderstand what some of us mean by "freedom." It means that some of us have resigned to the fact that we won't accept Snyderatto lead us to believe that this year will be better then the last.

You fail to look at the big picture.

Big picture?

You are given up on the team you claim to love 4 games into a 16 game season.

When we are 2-2

What am I missing?

[SWFLSkins]

Pathetic. This thread has nothing to do with abandoning ship on the Redskins, this is just what happens when a few die hard fans reach the acceptance stage of the five stages of grief. We've been through the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and the depression... and I can quite honestly say that its a relief to finally divest yourself of all that false hope.

We are what we are. I will still watch every game from here on out and attend the home games for the rest of the season but I won't live and die on a play-by-play basis to the extent that I have in the past. Things are in perspective.

Dude does therapy for a living, or should.^

[SkinsHokieFan]

Other than ES.com... I don't talk Redskins football. I talk all kinds of football OTHER than the Skins. And if somebody approaches me about the Skins.... I say "I know... we suck." And I change the topic.

And to think, you cared so much that you started ES.

Clearly you are a fairweather hater :hysterical:

[SkinsHokieFan]

Big picture?

You are given up on the team you claim to love 4 games into a 16 game season.

When we are 2-2

What am I missing?

That the team is regressing and not getting any better

[ThePreciating]

Really? You think we are actually 2 players away?

Lets break it down:

1) You have a coach who doesn't have a clue how to run his system, nor have a clue how to set up a defense. He is a terrific QB coach and JC's mechanics are night and day better since Zorn came.

However this team has regressed on Zorn's side of the ball the longer he has been here. At this point last year you actually had a functioning NFL offense. The longer Zorn has been here, the worse it has gotten.

2) You have no o-line depth whatsoever. One guy goes down and the thing falls apart. We can't run to the right side, and barely can to the left

3) You have 3 pass catchers drafted in the 2nd round of 2008 that for some reason or another have failed to develop or were just not that good to begin with. 1 catch for -1 yard between the 3 of them is unacceptable in year 2

4) You have an over rated, getting older defense. I have said enough about D-Hall to write a book. Carlos Rogers got ripped in Detroit. You have no playmakers at the LB spot. AH is not worth 100 million dollars. Laron Landry still cannot read a play and misses tackles and for some reason has not developed. Really you have London Fletcher, who is in his mid 30s and will not be here in 2011, Orakpo (who is a stud) and Horton/Doughty that are providing value and will be around long term.

5) You have special teams that loses yardage and provides no big play or spark

6) There is no long term plan in the front office. 2nd and 6th round picks are traded for Jason Taylor. Picks are being offered up for Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez. 100 million spent on Albert Haynesworth. The rumor mill has already buried Jim Zorn unless he makes the playoffs and wins a game

Lets face it, this team needs a new FO, with a real GM that has power, and a long term plan put in place to break the team down and rebuild it with lots of draft picks.

Right now this is an old team that is only going to get worse

1. I agree. Let's not fire him NOW though, let's see if this season we get better towards the end. All of us know 4-0 means more in the last four than in the first four.

2. The depth is gone because we just had a youth infusion. We took about 18 years off the right side of our line, 10 years off the left guard. That's almost 30 years of age taken off our line. We will replenish the depth with picks.

3. You are absolutely right. However, I still like Kelly's prospects, and I think most people here agree.

4. Our D is not old nor overrated. They just got new personnel....this will be a top-flight defense again this year. Let it come together. We are actually generating TURNOVERS this year for once!!!

5. I agree we could use a better returner. However, our special teams became WAY better this year when we got Hunter Smith, and you know it.

6. Albert Haynesworth would fit into EVERY team's long term plan. Who else can play 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT?!? Dude is a FREAK. Snyder tries to replace Campbell, everyone says he's following his same old ways. Snyder keeps Campbell, everyone ****es that Campbell sucks. Talk about a no-win! By the way, the two QB's Snyder tried to get are looking like they'd have been pretty amazing pickups.

Aside from the left tackle, fullback, and middle linebacker, what position are we old at? You're just making things up. I know you're frustrated, but calm down! It's been four games!

[JCSMCPCCrskins]

I did. And 4 years ago when I met you I never would assumed you would post some of the stuff you have posted.

I think some of you need to take a step back.

We got people talking about redskins freedom after a win!!!!

You can love your wife till it hurts that does not mean you get to beat her. See my point.

I have lost faith and most of you.

Hey King we won this week.

Sorry, but all of your posts in this thread are retarded. You can be a fan however you want, dont think that the fact you have a more positive outlook on the redskins makes you a better or more true fan. If anything youre just a blind sheep who refuses to see how this organization has been run the last decade.

People are not upset about a 2-2 record. People are not upset about the fact we won this week. FANS are upset because they have been watching the same thing every year for over a decade now, and have not seen any great results. Every other team in our division has a better overall record then us, we do not have more wins against any NFC east team. This is not about winning or losing this week, it is about what has been going on for a very long time now.

Stop talking about this week, and anyway do you know anything about football? We won against the bucs by 3 points and only put up 16, our only other win was against the rams where we scored 9 points. The Lions and the Rams got slaughtered this week, something we could not even come close to doing. We beat the bucs and the rams just barely, and we lost to detroit. You think its fairweather to be pissed and have little faith in what this team can do? I will always cheer for the skins an watch every game, but not being blind as a bat and just following snyder like a sheep does not make me fairweather.

Fans like you that think they are better then everyone else are pathetic. You are no better and no worse. We are all fans with different opinions, so do not sit up on your pedestal because you think you are a better fan, because trust me, youre not. Stop looking at one season, and look at the last 10 years. IF you want to look at this season, then really look at it man, look at the teams we beat and by how much, look at all the mistakes. Look at how the teams we barely beat or even lost to are getting CRUSHED by other average teams.

[DaMuller7]

After 10 years of watching the Snyder Redskins bumble around the field and make the same management mistakes over and over again I am finally at peace. I've finally, finally managed to divorce myself from expectation and hope. Danny has completely broken my football spirit. I see the light now, I accept that run as we currently are, the best one can hope for is occassionally lucking into a wilcard birth. Sustained success is a logicial impossibility. I tried this approach at the Bucs game this past weekend and it went great. I shook my head and laughed and said to myself, "that's our dysfunctional, lovable losers" when we screwed a play up, clapped in surprise when we made a play. It feels great.

When you finally understand that wins and losses don't have to matter, that they're less important to the owner than doing it his way and under his control, when you accept that Danny is going to run this team the way he wants and won't allow us the opportunity to be a quality organization, it sets you free. For me, I'm at the place where I watch every game and cheer on our boys without letting it leave my mind who we are, what our true identity is. I've also decided, rather practically and without emotion, that I work too hard for my money to spend my money on an organization that denys itself the chance for anything beyond mediocrity. As such, unless a real GM who has total and complete roster control emerges, I won't be renewing my season tickets or buying anymore merchandise. My money will go to Caps tickets instead. I'm not mad about it, I just don't want to support the insanity of it all. I don't want to support a team that refuses to build for the future and, most importantly, refuses to show they're a quality, well run organization that won't shoot itself in the foot at every level possible.

So, if you dare, fall in love with next offseason's high profile coach and free agent acquistions. He'll over come the lack of a GM, honest, this guy's the one. Besides, as always, we truly are only one player away. Or turn to your practical side, free yourself of expectations and dissapointment and enjoy the games because that's our team playing and nothing more. The truth will set you free my friends.

You know what man, I feel just like you do... You basically took the words right out my mouth because after all these years I think I aged a lot more cheering and screaming at the TV waiting for a great team/product to take the field. When I was younger and the years of Dan Snyder taking over the team, I was intense in watching the games with my father and grandfather to the point that women (even my ex throughout these times) couldn't be in the room, I always needed silence, and after a loss it would make my week break into shambles... When back in college from 2001-2006, I couldn't even concentrate on work just thinking about how the Redskins will do each week maybe pulling out a bunch of wins and getting to the playoffs.

Now after going to the Bucs game this past Sunday in person and sometime after last season, I started to feel differently and have a different outlook on our team. I still love watching the Redskins with my pops and granddad since I will never stop loving the game/team, but I've come to the realization that our team, being under Snyde,r we don't really have a shot at anything and have been accustomed to being a losing franchise with no shot of being a Patriots/Colts/New York Giants/Philadelphia/Pittsburgh kind of team. It's sad because I want that intensity back that I use to have with having a bad week after a loss, or a great week after a win. Even after a win, I just shrug my shoulders and say "Who knows what'll happen next week because we're never consistent"

[SWFLSkins]

And this past Sunday..... I was on the golf course with my brother. He checked NFL scores on his Iphone between holes. And all we did was laugh at the score.

Art asked me if I wanted to attend any games this year on behalf of ES.com for coverage. I declined.

This franchise has lost me a long time ago... for a variety of reasons that have been stated before. They're not getting another penny from me.

I'm just a casual Redskins observer now.... until I witness a change I can BELIEVE in... like signing Bill Cowher and handling over FULL control.... and firing Cerrato.

Until then.... it's all a sham.

Other than ES.com... I don't talk Redskins football. I talk all kinds of football OTHER than the Skins. And if somebody approaches me about the Skins.... I say "I know... we suck." And I change the topic.

Die Hard

Ring of Fame

Join Date: May 2000

Location: Brantford, Ontario

Age: 35

Posts: 12,345

Wow, just wow. post 12345, did you catch that before you post again?

I saddens me to see a real fan like you feel this way, and I can't blame you.

[20April1980]

That the team is regressing and not getting any better

And you probably are right.

So that means you stop supporting them 4 games in?

My support is not results based. I am a real fan.