Opposition to Health-care Reform Revives Christian Right

[The 12th Commandment]

Can't any issue be reduced to money vs. helping people?

Not as easily as this one.

I don't approve of church gatherings on political issues,but to assert opposition to a certain health plan is unchristian or unspiritual is a load of crap.

It's so intertwined with the whole entitlement (as long as I don't have to pay for them) issue that maybe I'm reading some peoples motivation for opposition incorrectly? I can see opposition where it puts making sure everyone can receive treatment when they're sick as a given and might argue about other parts of the plan, as spiritually sound.

But go ahead and send what ya can spare,I'll put it to good use.

Hardy har har har.

[Smoot Point Really]

Liberals like doing "God's work" TO you, if you want it or not, with other people's money. How pious of them.

[Baculus]

Probably had a hidden Kenyan birth certificate as well.

INCOMING :geek:

Was he a fraud is a valid question , after all how could the all powerful son of God ignore the sickness and destitution in the world.

Not very loving of him,and I'm assured by religious scholars:hysterical: on here that Love and helping others in need is what Christianity is all about.

So basically what Jesus and the Apostles said was irrelevant, and we sort of pick and choose what we want out of the new Testament?

No surprise there!

[Baculus]

Liberals like doing "God's work" TO you, if you want it or not, with other people's money. How pious of them.

What does that have to do with any of the quotes I have provided? And how does your health care position jive with anything in the New Testament?

Oh yeah, I forgot: Jesus was a capitalist.

[Vicious]

If you believe that than there is really no room for debate. What private sector company can compete with a government agency that can operate at a loss indefinitely?

By slashing people who are sick. Oh wait, they already do that.

[twa]

He helped to feed the poor in addition to his hands-on healing and his spiritual enrichment. After all, he also said, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

John the Apostle also said (John 3:16-19), "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth."

If Jesus and his disciples were around today, I have a feeling they wouldn't be well accepted by some on the Right.

Kinda skirting the question there Padre,sure he did some good...BUT

How could the loving,all powerful,epitome of Christianity ignore the suffering,sickness and hunger in the world?

btw ,by Christian doctrine Jesus and his disciples ARE around today:silly:

[Vicious]

Liberals like doing "God's work" TO you, if you want it or not, with other people's money. How pious of them.

Are you implying Republicans are more "Pious" than Democrats? Because that sure looks like that's what you're trying to say. Saying they are the ones that claim to do "God's Work" is pretty freaking ridiculous too.

[The 12th Commandment]

Liberals like doing "God's work" TO you, if you want it or not, with other people's money. How pious of them.

I don't believe in God, so to speak, but I know it's better as a nation to take care of our own. I'm proud of my piousitivity.

[Smoot Point Really]

Are you implying Republicans are more "Pious" than Democrats? Because that sure looks like that's what you're trying to say. Saying they are the ones that claim to do "God's Work" is pretty freaking ridiculous too.

Have you even read this thread? I think in context, my post makes complete sense.

[twa]

So basically what Jesus and the Apostles said was irrelevant, and we sort of pick and choose what we want out of the new Testament?

No surprise there!

It appears you are doing the picking and choosing of principles and verses, I'm just seeking enlightenment....and a answer:)

[Baculus]

Kinda skirting the question there Padre,sure he did some good...BUT

I gave you specific quotes. How did I skirt around the issue?

How could the loving,all powerful,epitome of Christianity ignore the suffering,sickness and hunger in the world?

Well, besides feeding thousands with some loaves of bread and some fish . . . .

http://www.ebibleteacher.com/children/lessons/feeds.htm

You're asking an age-old question. It's like asking, "How does a good God allow evil in the world?"

btw ,by Christian doctrine Jesus and his disciples ARE around today:silly:

O.K.

[Stadium-Armory]

I love where this thread is going..

[Baculus]

It appears you are doing the picking and choosing of principles and verses, I'm just seeking enlightenment....and a answer:)

Of course I am picking and choosing verses that apply to what we are discussing. What else would I use? Do you have anything to demonstrate counter to what I am saying? Do you have anything that supports your position? Do you have anything to demonstrate why a pro-Business right-wing Christian organization is more Christ-like in their approach?

I guess the words I have quoted are inconsequential to you since they have no bearing on your political stance.

But hey, who am I to judge.

[Baculus]

Have you even read this thread? I think in context, my post makes complete sense.

How does it make complete sense?

[Predicto]

I love where this thread is going..

Straight to Hell, with all the rest of us. :laugh:

[The 12th Commandment]

It appears you are doing the picking and choosing of principles and verses, I'm just seeking enlightenment....and a answer:)

Babe in the woods?

[Oldskool]

Amazing. Yet another thread goes down in flames. :doh:

[Baculus]

Amazing. Yet another thread goes down in flames. :doh:

Or going UP in flames! It depends on how you look at it. See! Turn that frown upside down!

[SnyderShrugged]

The New Testament teachings of Jesus are clear on helping poor people, but that is an injunction laid on each person individually. You will search in vain for any suggestion that anyone is supposed to force others to help poor people whether they want to or not.

A moral act must involve choice. A coerced act says nothing about the morality of the person acting. (It does say something about the morality of the person performing coercion, however.)

[twa]

I gave you specific quotes. How did I skirt around the issue?

Well, besides feeding thousands with some loaves of bread and some fish . . . .

http://www.ebibleteacher.com/children/lessons/feeds.htm

You're asking an age-old question. It's like asking, "How does a good God allow evil in the world?"

That age old question is fairly simple...how can there be good w/o evil

Why didn't Jesus replicate the feeding of the multitude again?

Why doesn't manna simply fall from the sky?

I'm glad ya'll turned to preaching...I need some answers since ya'll seem to know God's will.

[Baculus]

The New Testament teachings of Jesus are clear on helping poor people, but that is an injunction laid on each person individually. You will search in vain for any suggestion that anyone is supposed to force others to help poor people whether they want to or not.

A moral act must involve choice. A coerced act says nothing about the morality of the person acting. (It does say something about the morality of the person performing coercion, however.)

Choosing to support a universal health care system is not coercion: It is fulfilling a desire to help your fellow neighbor or the sick. It is only coercion if you don't want to help out those in need with such a health care system.

We all cannot lay hands and heal people. But what can we do? Perhaps contribute to a system those sick can get help from healers.

Of course, everyone isn't going to give all their belongings to the poor, either.

[Baculus]

That age old question is fairly simple...how can there be good w/o evil

Why didn't Jesus replicate the feeding of the multitude again?

Why doesn't manna simply fall from the sky?

I'm glad ya'll turned to preaching...I need some answers since ya'll seem to know God's will.

Well -- if I knew all those answers I certainly would be a good padre. But, alas, I do not, my friend.

I know the feeding, which was done twice, was supposed to have a symbolic meaning as well. The feeding wasn't just about food, but a miracle and a sign of the divinity of Jesus.

[SnyderShrugged]

Choosing to support a universal health care system is not coercion: It is fulfilling a desire to help your fellow neighbor or the sick. It is only coercion if you don't want to help out those in need with such a health care system.

We all cannot lay hands and heal people. But what can we do? Perhaps contribute to a system those sick can get help from healers.

Of course, everyone isn't going to give all their belongings to the poor, either.

That still doesnt rationalize the coersion that will take place if a "public" plan is put in place and those that do not want it are forced to take part in it.

I believe the context of many of the mocking posts in this thread that attempt to claim Jesus woould desire coersion to attain a certain end is out of bounds and the province of those that somehow think coersion is "christian" when its in the name of public good. That is simply not the case.

[twa]

Of course I am picking and choosing verses that apply to what we are discussing. What else would I use? Do you have anything to demonstrate counter to what I am saying? Do you have anything that supports your position? Do you have anything to demonstrate why a pro-Business right-wing Christian organization is more Christ-like in their approach?

I guess the words I have quoted are inconsequential to you since they have no bearing on your political stance.

But hey, who am I to judge.

Your verses only underline my asking WHY,Jesus had the means and ability(and demonstrated them)

Perhaps you need to move past the kiddie lessons to find a answer?

I'm not the one proclaiming God on their political side of a healthcare plan.

You gonna claim it,you better justify the reasons WHY.

And no,your interpretation of God's will holds little interest w/o understanding WHY:)

[Predicto]

The New Testament teachings of Jesus are clear on helping poor people, but that is an injunction laid on each person individually. You will search in vain for any suggestion that anyone is supposed to force others to help poor people whether they want to or not.

A moral act must involve choice. A coerced act says nothing about the morality of the person acting. (It does say something about the morality of the person performing coercion, however.)

Then I choose to vote for national health care. :laugh: