goldbean Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I have never seen someone on this board so diligently defend Steve Spurrier. Along with the Shilsu post....Gibbs put in the effort and had less of a result. Truth is our roster sucked under spurrier, and while better under gibbs produced even less of a result. It wasn't the amount of work Spurrier put in.....and I know Gibbs put in lots of hours. It was a poor roster with poor talent. Less for Spurrier than Gibbs. In the end, the results were the same. Gibbs had "less of a result" than who? Spurrier? What kind of a result? Embarrassing the franchise? Finding new ways to get his QB killed? Doing cool tricks with a football while his players were practicing? Losing the respect of the locker room? Our roster sucked under Spurrier because he made it that way. He cut one of our best players--Stephen Davis--because he didn't fit Spurrier's scheme. Do you remember Stephen Davis? The guy who set the single-season rushing record for the Skins? The guy who rushed for 1405/17, 1318/11, and 1432/5 before he missed a couple games in 2002 and rushed for "only" 800/7 in 12 games? The guy who rushed for 1444/8 the next year in Carolina to help lead them to the Super Bowl? The guy who was the primary reason we won a division title in 1999? So then the genius went out and replaced him with Trung Canidate. Brilliant. Why? Because Stephen Davis didn't fit Spurrier's scheme. Unbelievable. In a nutshell: Spurrier was a loser. He didn't have the organizational skills, maturity, or personnel acumen to be an NFL head coach. He didn't want to win badly enough, and he didn't hate losing enough. Spurrier was lazy. He didn't work hard enough to be a successful NFL head coach. Spurrier's scheme was fundamentally flawed. Its inability to cope with NFL pressure renders it, yes, a failure. His OL was not pathetic; in 2003, other than C, it was essentially the same as our current line (just a few years younger). Sorry, but the scheme sucked. Again, I don't know what "results" you care about, but anyone who has paid attention over the past 6-7 years knows that Spurrier's and Gibbs' tenures and levels of success were fundamentally different. I could cite example after example, but let's face reality: Gibbs got us into the playoffs twice, won a playoff game, led the team through perhaps its worst tragedy in history, and left us with a ridiculous number of great Skins-'Boys memories. Spurrier leaves us with what? A resounding victory in Osaka? Quitting on the golf course? Flapping lips in slo-mo on TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryman of the North Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Our Oline was not suited to spurriers offence AT ALL and frankly the only offence it would have been suited to was a run heavy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryman of the North Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 One MAJOR difference is Gibbs rebuilt the team from the Spurrier fiasco. Gibbs inherited a losing team. Zorn inherited a team that made it to the playoffs! YUP, people seem to forget that when Joe came back, the cupboard was bare and we were well on our way to being far worse than mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peeping Wizard Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Remember when we all thought Chris Doering was going to be the next Jerry Rice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbean Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Our Oline was not suited to spurriers offence AT ALL and frankly the only offence it would have been suited to was a run heavy one. ?? Norv Turner directed an offense with more than 4000 passing yards with a less talented, less agile/pass pro line: Andy Heck (v. Chris Samuels), Keith Sims (v. Derrick Dockery), Cory Raymer (v. Lennie Friedman), Tre Johnson (v. Randy Thomas), rookie Jon Jansen (v. seasoned Jon Jansen). And all Spurrier could muster was ~3100 passing yards with his group? Please. But let's assume you are right--the personnel wasn't a good fit. Ask yourself a question: If the personnel does not fit the system, should you try to force the personnel to fit the system or should you adjust your system? Sometimes you need to scrap Air Coryell and go with Riggo. Perhaps Spurrier should have adjusted his system to...I don't know...score points and get yards without getting every one of his QBs destroyed? Spurrier was a failure as an NFL coach. It was nobody's fault but his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Spurrier's work ethic was not the scheme, it was the man. It's been widely reported that Spurrier spends more time at the golf course than at the office. That never would have adapted well to the NFL game...it's a shame Snyder didn't do more thorough research before making the hire. I've always felt with some tweaking, better personnel, and better work ethic, Spurrier could have been an excellent HC in the NFL IMO. The man beat a Bill Belichick Patriot's team in their prime with Brady at the helm. Granted they had several players out, but it was still a solid win in my book. Andy Reid handed his butt to him once or twice though for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins77 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Spurrier had Trung Candidate blocking Michael Strahan 1 on 1........ /end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 YUP, people seem to forget that when Joe came back, the cupboard was bare and we were well on our way to being far worse than mediocre. I really am ALWAYS amused how people memory is so poor. You want a bare cupboard. Look at what Spurrier was handed. Gibbs had a buffet compared to what Spurrier was given. Not only did Gibbs have a better roster in year 1 but he also won less games. Year 2 Spurrier had a worse roster than Gibbs year 1. Gibbs got the gold card to buy anyone he wanted. Spurrier got a bunch of gators...course maybe thats what he wanted...but please stop the madness that somehow Spurrier ever had more to work with than Gibbs. Spurrier NEVER had the free roster pass Gibbs got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins77 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I really am ALWAYS amused how people memory is so poor.You want a bare cupboard. Look at what Spurrier was handed. Gibbs had a buffet compared to what Spurrier was given. Not only did Gibbs have a better roster in year 1 but he also won less games. Year 2 Spurrier had a worse roster than Gibbs year 1. Gibbs got the gold card to buy anyone he wanted. Spurrier got a bunch of gators...course maybe thats what he wanted...but please stop the madness that somehow Spurrier ever had more to work with than Gibbs. Spurrier NEVER had the free roster pass Gibbs got. Spurrier had Trung Candidate block Michael Strahan 1 on 1...... /endthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Spurrier had Trung Candidate block Michael Strahan 1 on 1....../endthread You obviously missed the point. Whether Spurrier's offense was a failure in the NFL. My point is we really don't know because his roster was probably worse than Norv Turners, Gibbs II, Zorn, Schottenheimer. I mean what GM would have brought Trung in in the first place? Spurrier had a god awful roster and still eeked out more games than Gibbs II first year. What is the commonality with all the above coaches mentioned? None of them had championship rosters...oh and none of them were very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins77 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 You obviously missed the point.Whether Spurrier's offense was a failure in the NFL. My point is we really don't know because his roster was probably worse than Norv Turners, Gibbs II, Zorn, Schottenheimer. I mean what GM would have brought Trung in in the first place? Spurrier had a god awful roster and still eeked out more games than Gibbs II first year. What is the commonality with all the above coaches mentioned? None of them had championship rosters...oh and none of them were very good. Ok, he traded Stephen Davis to the Panthers, obviously a dumb move since Davis was a featured back. Then he took Dung Candidate and had him blocking Michael Strahan 1 on 1........are you missing something Chip? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that back then, Strahan demanded double teams and you cannot take a 5th string RB and block him one on one. At least double teaming him would have shown some sign that Spurrier knew the basic concepts of pro football. He didn't, he thought he could bring in every active Florida Gator and throw the ball all day. What is even more baffling is he was shown a statistic that when the skins ran the ball 30+ carries (something like that) a game they won. He comes out and throws 3 straight downs to a 3 and out and fails to run the ball with Davis. After the game, his comments......."It looked like a good day for throwing the football" The guy was a failure at the pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Ok, he traded Stephen Davis to the Panthers, obviously a dumb move since Davis was a featured back. Then he took Dung Candidate and had him blocking Michael Strahan 1 on 1........are you missing something Chip? Not familiar with the specific play you mentioned. I am sure I could call some bad plays by gibbs...back to back timeouts as an example. But you are missing the key to the whole conversation. If Spurrier made any personnel decisions, then who is to blame? If Stephen Davis was traded and Trung Candidate brought in, I have a hard time running around having Steve Spurrier first on my list of idiots at Redskins Park. Simple fact is someone brought Spurrier in for a record payday and then someone didn't give him a team worthy of even smelling Gibbs II year ones players jocks. Who is to blame? The Redskins can't bring in a HOF coach and field a consistently winning team much less a college hot shot. Who is to blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 His offense was a lot like the Run & Shoot according to a lot of "experts"...and which NFL Franchise first showed how to take apart the Run & Shoot...The Washington Redskins. (A little touch of Irony) There was an assistant coach who worked with the guy who created the Run & Shoot who got fired for no real reason...during the 1991 Off-Season Richie Pettibon called him up and picked his brain about the Run & Shoot...within 2 hours of the conversation Richie Pettibon told Joe Gibbs he had figured out how to stop the run & Shoot. The fun & gun, like the run & shoot, once you threw the timing of the recievers & QB off consistantly and had more guys comng than you could block was dead in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Remember when we all thought Chris Doering was going to be the next Jerry Rice? No..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Spurrier lacked simple intelligence. He played in the NFL for almost 10 years and yet came from Florida and refused to admit that he faced a transition that would cause him to modify how and what he did to fit the better defensive talent he was going to face in professional football. In college he had the luxury of playing 5 men across the front and sending everyone out on pass patterns. Few college teams had a front seven with enough athletes to make Florida pay by battering their quarterbacks. In the NFL, teams DO have the talent to disrupt these type of unbalanced offensive formations and schemes. Hence the same failure for the run and shoot. Eventually the quarterback gets taken off the field in a stretcher. As far as personnel goes, Spurrier dug his own grave by insisting on bringing Danny Wuerffel to Washington. If the Redskins had not made the move to bring in Shane Matthews on their own the Spurrier team would have lost even more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 No..... That makes two of us....I swear Spurrier called on anyone who ever played for him and there was reason these guys who so readily availible....they sucked on the pro-level...text-book defintion of "System Players." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 That makes two of us....I swear Spurrier called on anyone who ever played for him and there was reason these guys who so readily availible....they sucked on the pro-level...text-book defintion of "System Players." Yeah Spurrier was all to blame, but our geniuses in the front office just didn't get it. Trung Candidate wasn't a gator. I guess it was all Spurriers fault....and Norvs....and Schottenheimers...and Gibbs...and now Zorns.... Here is my 2 cents. Zorn is the first coach since Snyder took over the Redskins where any GM actually makes decisions based on a player decision and not on who the coach is. I truly don't believe Spurrier thought his only chance in the NFL was to bring in ex gators. I gotta believe it was a front office brain fart. As a matter of fact, I would say if the front office was stupid enough to think Spurrier could only be successful with Gators then it was definitely a brain fart. But hey, if you want to put ALL the problems squarely on Spurriers shoulders...well OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yeah Spurrier was all to blame, but our geniuses in the front office just didn't get it.Trung Candidate wasn't a gator. I guess it was all Spurriers fault....and Norvs....and Schottenheimers...and Gibbs...and now Zorns.... Here is my 2 cents. Zorn is the first coach since Snyder took over the Redskins where any GM actually makes decisions based on a player decision and not on who the coach is. I truly don't believe Spurrier thought his only chance in the NFL was to bring in ex gators. I gotta believe it was a front office brain fart. As a matter of fact, I would say if the front office was stupid enough to think Spurrier could only be successful with Gators then it was definitely a brain fart. But hey, if you want to put ALL the problems squarely on Spurriers shoulders...well OK. Point taken...in the end it took two to make the mess that happened...the front office, for whatever reason, didn't step in and say, "Are you sure about this one?" It was a mess and hopefully one we won't be seeing again anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceDragon38 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Spurrier's offense would've been a failure if it were ran by the 2007 Patriots. The guy had 3rd string tight ends blocking Pro Bowl DEs, and never established any kind of hot reads or blitz packages. It looked like 5 offensive lineman, 1 QB, and whatever package of WRs, TEs RBs etc, and they were going to run whatever play regardless of what the D was showing. You can't win without making adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Point taken...in the end it took two to make the mess that happened...the front office, for whatever reason, didn't step in and say, "Are you sure about this one?"It was a mess and hopefully one we won't be seeing again anytime soon. Your right it takes two to tango..... And the front office was so STUPID to bring in all Gators and you want to lay that squarely on the coaches shoulders???? Even a stupid GM isn't that stupid. Fact is the Redskins roster sucked pre spurrier and it sucked post spurrier and even a HOF coach trading multiple draft picks couldn't make the roster even above laughable. And if you want to keep it real, year 3 of Joe Gibbs 2 might have been the most embarassing year in all of Redskins history based on the drama that happened...but yeah lets just punk on Spurrier. There is a problem, and it still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 There is a problem, and it still exists. Okay let's say Snyder throws you the keys to franchise what do you say or do first to fix the problems here? Not saying this to put you on the spot or cause trouble or anything like that...just general knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggins77 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Trung Candidate versus Michael Strahan One On One /Endthread!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Trung Candidate versus Michael StrahanOne On One /Endthread!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That and going for it on 4th & 20 deep in your own territory...John Riggins said, "That is the sign of a man who wants to be fired." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 From time to time I work with a guy out here who was Spurrier's right hand man at Florida. He's told me lots of interesting stuff, like --Spurrier feels his offense would have worked and well -- he just never had the right qb. It took him too long to realize Woeful and Shane M didn't have the physical tools. And he could never get Ramsey to see the field and make a decision quickly -- which we all saw meant disaster for both Ramsey and the offense. On tape guys were open. Often wide open. Also, he had no interest in evaluating personnel and realized he just wasn't that good at it anyway. He just wanted to "coach em up." Thing is, he quickly realized Cerrato wasn't particularly good at evaluating talent either. Apparently Spurrier wanted Ron Wolff to be the GM -- something Snyder at least implied to him might be the case when trying to hire him. Spurrier felt snookered by Snyder later on. Basically he feels he would have done much better with a better qb and front office. You know, same as every other losing NFL coach. He never thinks about the NFL anymore. He only went for the money -- Snyder more than doubled his college salary. That's pretty much how I see it. Cerrato is OK, even good, when he is given good direction, like from Gibbs, and now under Zorn. He's a guy you can tell "I need X type of player, at y position and he will do his damnedest to get it done. Give him credit for that. But for a guy like Spurrier, he was the wrong sort of "GM". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Spurrier's offense would've been a failure if it were ran by the 2007 Patriots. The guy had 3rd string tight ends blocking Pro Bowl DEs, and never established any kind of hot reads or blitz packages. It looked like 5 offensive lineman, 1 QB, and whatever package of WRs, TEs RBs etc, and they were going to run whatever play regardless of what the D was showing. You can't win without making adjustments. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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