Midnight Judges Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 How do you know you won't ever benefit? How do you know you won't have a string of bad luck and end up destitute, or disabled?You don't. None of us do. That's the point. I don't think that's his angle. I think he's assuming the entire thing will be completely unsustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I don't think that's his angle. I think he's assuming the entire thing will be completely unsustainable. Well, Lord knows there's been enough political spin being spouted, for the last decade, of the "It's doomed, it'll never work, it's a Black Hole, the sky is going to fall, therefore we should get rid of it right now" formula. I've seen a lot of posters on here who believe it. My opinion of S_S is higher than that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I don't think that's his angle. I think he's assuming the entire thing will be completely unsustainable. I don't think so. We have had this conversation before, and SnyderShrugged understands that if the eligibility dates are moved up, it becomes sustainable. He is just opposed to Social Security on principle, which is a perfectly honorable position to take and in line with his pure libertarian philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peeping Wizard Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 The problem is there are no Republicans a) with the economic knowledge and know how and credibility to offer any alternatives at the moment or in the near futureThey'll keep yelling "tax cuts!" over and over again with no sense of how to apply them and where and how to cut the government and where Until the leaders of the party prove they are not the party of big corporation, social security could collapse and they still wouldn't have a clue, nor the credibility to show they can solve the problem Mitt Romney has forgotten more about finance and economics than Obama, Pelosi or Reid will ever know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Mitt Romney has forgotten more about finance and economics than Obama, Pelosi or Reid will ever know. I don't know about that. Knowing how to leverage your father's multimillions in order to make your own multi-multimillions is a real skill, and I have no doubt that Romney is a smart guy overall. But being good at making money for yourself is not the same as being good at public finance and national economics. If it were, then why not just elect George Lucas, Mark Cuban or Ron Popeil as President? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 SHF,This is how republicans will get back in office ( though once in power they will prove to suck once again and not actually do anything about spending) You mean the same Republicans who were in power for a good bit of the past 20 or so years? They haven't done anything in the past about this and likely won't do anything in the future about it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I don't know about that.Knowing how to leverage your father's multimillions in order to make your own multi-multimillions is a real skill, and I have no doubt that Romney is a smart guy overall. But being good at making money for yourself is not the same as being good at public finance and national economics. If it were, then why not just elect George Lucas, Mark Cuban or Ron Popeil as President? I dunno. Hasn't Sam Walton been in charge for the last 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Wow. Yet another article that claims that the Social Security Trust Fund doesn't exist, because T-bills aren't assets. And who claims that the sky is falling because look how much money there would have to be in the funds to pay benefits forever. (Good thing nobody ever figures out how much it would cost us if we had to come up with enough money, right now, to run the military forever, huh? Bet that number would be really scary.) Are you going to clearly state that the Social Security program is not a ponzi scheme? If it is not a pyramid scheme, then please contrast the difference between a pyramid scheme and Social Security. No economist or politician is arguing about "IF" social security will become unsustainable, the argument is how soon will it become so. Your argument is along the same lines as the people who say they can't be out of money because they still have unwritten checks in their checkbook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 This is ALL Untrue: Social Security / Medicaide / Medicare are doomed in 2020. In reading some of this based on the Universal medical stuff what they fail to mention is. They take the CURRENT rate and push it out 75 years. They do not take into account the Baby Boomers are coming into full effect over the next 12 years that will demolish the current systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 You mean the same Republicans who were in power for a good bit of the past 20 or so years? They haven't done anything in the past about this and likely won't do anything in the future about it either. Republicans never even attempt to solve any of these difficult problems. But that wasn't his point. Republicans CAMPAIGN on these issues very well. Thus they can continue to claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility, even though every objective indication is directly to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Are you going to clearly state that the Social Security program is not a ponzi scheme? If it is not a pyramid scheme, then please contrast the difference between a pyramid scheme and Social Security. No economist or politician is arguing about "IF" social security will become unsustainable, the argument is how soon will it become so.Your argument is along the same lines as the people who say they can't be out of money because they still have unwritten checks in their checkbook... Are you going to clearly state that health insurance is not a ponzi scheme? As long as your debate is going to consist of slinging labels and making things up about what the other person said, and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 This is ALL Untrue: Social Security / Medicaide / Medicare are doomed in 2020.In reading some of this based on the Universal medical stuff what they fail to mention is. They take the CURRENT rate and push it out 75 years. They do not take into account the Baby Boomers are coming into full effect over the next 12 years that will demolish the current systems. You are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Republicans never even attempt to solve any of these difficult problems.But that wasn't his point. Republicans CAMPAIGN on these issues very well. Thus they can continue to claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility, even though every objective indication is directly to the contrary. Well, now that's not quite true. George Bush did, after all, attempt to use fictional claims as an excuse to abolish Social Security, borrow billions of dollars, and give huge gifts to the banking industry. Credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Republicans never even attempt to solve any of these difficult problems.But that wasn't his point. Republicans CAMPAIGN on these issues very well. Thus they can continue to claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility, even though every objective indication is directly to the contrary. Due to the nature of these programs, reform will only come from a Democratic administration. That is the only way to give reform political cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Republicans never even attempt to solve any of these difficult problems. No politician from either side to date has done anything to address entitlement reform. Nobody. It's going to be forced upon some President at some point to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Due to the nature of these programs, reform will only come from a Democratic administration. That is the only way to give reform political cover Only Nixon can go to China? Perhaps. I genuinely think that Obama wants to be that guy. Whether he succeeds remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Only Nixon can go to China?Perhaps. I genuinely think that Obama wants to be that guy. Whether he succeeds remains to be seen. I am not sure how he is going to push for reform and universial health care, but good luck with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I am not sure how he is going to push for reform and universial health care, but good luck with that Obama's economists see comprehensive health care reform as more than paying for itself in the long term. The ballooning of Medicare costs is the single biggest budgetary problem this nation faces, by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Obama's economists see comprehensive health care reform as more than paying for itself in the long term. The ballooning of Medicare costs is the single biggest budgetary problem this nation faces, by far. 1) Agreed. People talk about the Social Security problem, but Medicare/Medicaid is the 8,000 lb gorilla in the budget. 2) And if Obama's reforms can solve that problem, then I'll propose rescinding the 22nd Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 This is sooooo funny. President Bush tried to over-haul Social Security and all the libs like HARRY REID all said that Social Security was fine.....no problem. Ha ha ha ha ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 This is sooooo funny. President Bush tried to over-haul Social Security and all the libs like HARRY REID all said that Social Security was fine.....no problem. Ha ha ha ha ...... President Bush tried to use fake claims about the imminent collapse of Social Security in order to push his agenda which consisted of having the government borrow billions of dollars, loan that money to taxpayers, encourage those taxpayers to then go and throw that borrowed money at the banking industry, and then take the money he'd loaned the taxpayers out of their future Social Security benefits. Bush's proposals, according to Bush, would have done absolutely nothing to extend the bankruptcy date of Social Security. Bush's response to the bankruptcy date was "give me this windfall for the banking industry that I want, and then I'll allow somebody else to propose a way to save Social Security. As long as the way they propose is 'cut benefits'." And Social Security is fine. The new, more pessimistic, projections say that it's fine until 2039. (The previous estimate was 2043.) And on that date, all that will happen is that it will either need to be funded from general revenues, or benefits will have to be cut by, I think, around 20%. (I don't remember that number off the top of my head.) There have been three simple "fixes" mentioned in this very thread that would keep it funded for the next 75 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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