Orton/Campbell Matchup

[bigevhfan]

I really look forward to the Denver game. Obviously to boo our pal Chump Bailey, but also to see how Campbell plays. I'm sure he's going to have a major chip on his shoulder to show up Orton and to send McDaniels a message. Ought to be an interesting game. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[BigMike619]

orton is a bum anyways. he lost his job to grossman how many times when he was with the bears?

the media hyped that all up and there was no way that they wanted orton over campbell..they wanted the entire deal.

[SIXX99]

Campbell is probably gonna get a little fired up for that game I would imagine.

[wildbill1952]

Of the three, Campbell, Orton or Cutler, I think Cutler will have the worst season. He is going to suddenly realize what it's like to play without an OL and All-Pro receivers. The 17-20, 86 rated QB is about to become even more average.

Orton will outdo Cutler this year. It's amazing how many more completions are made when you have an extra 2 or 3 seconds to see the field.

Campbell's future is in the hands of his new receivers and the draft. If last year's porous OL is not improved via the draft, it won't make any difference that he's had a second year in this system. NFL QB's seldom look good laid out on their backside with 260 to 320 pounds of DL on top of them.

[Cooley4President]

Big game, and Campbell could very well be in line for a good one considering the Broncos horrendous defense.....

[Ghost of]

Of the three, Campbell, Orton or Cutler, I think Cutler will have the worst season. He is going to suddenly realize what it's like to play without an OL and All-Pro receivers. The 17-20, 86 rated QB is about to become even more average.

Orton will outdo Cutler this year. It's amazing how many more completions are made when you have an extra 2 or 3 seconds to see the field.

You are a bizarre person. Do you even know that Orton had a better overall statistical season than Campbell, more wins, and their offense scored more points, more passing TDs with a worse defense and that ALLEGED terrible offensive line?

What is your explanation for Cassell being sacked so much while Brady was sacked so much less?

You have such an unhealthy fixation on the offensive line that you essentially rewrite history to fit the narrative. Bias is one thing but you totally ignore basic facts, statistics, visual evidence all to fit your bizarre theory that it's the O-line and ONLY the O-line that has any impact on QB success. nevermind Pittsburgh (or even ARizona, frankly) being in the SB.

[PROSCOUT]

Campbell is probably gonna get a little fired up for that game I would imagine.

I would hope Jason woujld be more fired up for the New York game. Last year the Skins were shut out in the 2nd half, and their running game was completely shut down.

To me, THIS is the benchmark game for Jason Campbell, not some game in the middle of the season. If you can't get up for the first game of the season against an NFC rival which beat you TWICE last year, then you shouldn't dress for the game.

I seriously would want Campbell to be prepared to have a good game against the Giants, because that game will speak volumes about where the season is headed and how far Jason Campbell has progressed from last season at the same time.

With that said, I absolutely cannot believe the league scheduled the Redskins the exact same opponent and exact same away location for TWO years in a row. Isn't this a first in the league? Its almost bizarre.

[Thinking Skins]

You are a bizarre person. Do you even know that Orton had a better overall statistical season than Campbell, more wins, and their offense scored more points, more passing TDs with a worse defense and that ALLEGED terrible offensive line?

I'm glad you see that Orton having less yards, a lower completion percentage, more interceptions, and a lower rating implies that he had a better overall statistical season than Campbell.

Orton
SPLIT
       CMP  ATT  YDS  CMP%  YPA  LNG  TD  INT  SACK  RAT  
2008    272  465 2972  58.5  6.39  65  18   12    27 79.6

Campbell
SPLIT
       CMP  ATT  YDS  CMP%  YPA  LNG  TD  INT  SACK  RAT
2008    315  506 3245  62.3  6.41  67  13   6     38 84.3

Now you care to me how his stats are better?

Oh yeah, the more TDs. You're so gooood at reading stats.

[Ghost of]

I'm glad you see that Orton having less yards, a lower completion percentage, more interceptions, and a lower rating implies that he had a better overall statistical season than Campbell.

Oh yeah, the more TDs. You're so gooood at reading stats.

If Jason finished with 9 wins and more TDs, you'd be saying he had the overall better year, especially if he did it with a bad offensive line, no Clinton Portis (not that Forte isn't a good player) and an inferior defense.

And as we saw with Brunell's benching in 2006. QB rating is not a good measure of QB play.

Orton isn't as good a player as Campbell. The point is that Orton had a not-terrible year in spite of the factors that Wildbill lists as guaranteeing Cutler's failure. While I assume Cutler won't have 4500 yards (Windy City, cold, surrounding talent) the idea that he'll have some kind of terrible year and that ORTON will now turn into GOD MC Jay-Hova is absurd.

My issue with wildbill isn't about Campbell, so being an Idolater, you can keep out of the debate, whether I engage in a little hyperbole or not.

[IbleedBnG83]

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as the starter.

Jason Campbell is 16-20.

Just sayin is all...

[Thinking Skins]

Lets look at a few more important stats in the Orton vs Campbell matchup.

In the 2nd half of games in 2008, Orton has a 7 TDs and 8 INTs and a rating of 66.1.

In the 2nd half of games in 2008, Campbell has 7 TDs and 5 INTs and a rating of 84.5.

On third down in 2008, Orton has 4 TDs and 3 INTs and a rating of 70.5

On third down in 2008, Campbell has 3 TDs and 1 INTs and a rating of 79.7

When trailing in 2008, Orton has 6 TDs 7 INTs and a rating of 65.3

When trailing in 2008, Campbell has 6 TDs 4 INTs and a rating of 82.6

[PROSCOUT]

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as the starter.

Jason Campbell is 16-20.

Just sayin is all...

And while Jason was facing the Pittsburg defense and the Baltimore defense last season, kyle Orton was busy facing the 0-16 Detroit Lions and the 5-11 Jacksonville Jags during those 2 weeks.

It really does make a difference WHO you play, what your schedule is, and what players surround you. Its a team game.

Lets go another 8 months and see what a difference it makes now that Jason is in the SAME system for consecutive years, and Orton is in a brand new system. The reverse of last year.

I believe you will see a major difference in what you believe is going to happen and what will REALLY occur.

[IbleedBnG83]

And while Jason was facing the Pittsburg defense and the Baltimore defense last season, kyle Orton was busy facing the 0-16 Detroit Lions and the 5-11 Jacksonville Jags during those 2 weeks.

It really does make a difference WHO you play, what your schedule is, and what players surround you. Its a team game.

Lets go another 8 months and see what a difference it makes now that Jason is in the SAME system for consecutive years, and Orton is in a brand new system. The reverse of last year.

I believe you will see a major difference in what you believe is going to happen and what will REALLY occur.

I completely agree. I hate the whole "QB record" stat.

I was simply posting more so as antagonistic. Also to point out the Orton isn't as bad as people think he is.

[Thinking Skins]

If Jason finished with 9 wins and more TDs, you'd be saying he had the overall better year, especially if he did it with a bad offensive line, no Clinton Portis (not that Forte isn't a good player) and an inferior defense.

And as we saw with Brunell's benching in 2006. QB rating is not a good measure of QB play.

The thing is there is no ABSOLUTE measure of better players. But when you make a statement like "player x had a better overall statistical season than player y", it generally means that player x beats player y in every category, or at least almost every category.

The fact that Orton doesn't beat Campbell in 3 significant categories means you can't say that. If you want to rank offensive points and passing TDs as the categories that Orton's better, then just say that. But your first statement was like Orton was like a HOFer and Campbell was lucky to be in the league. Sorry, I aint buyin that.

Orton isn't as good a player as Campbell. The point is that Orton had a not-terrible year in spite of the factors that Wildbill lists as guaranteeing Cutler's failure. While I assume Cutler won't have 4500 yards (Windy City, cold, surrounding talent) the idea that he'll have some kind of terrible year and that ORTON will now turn into GOD MC Jay-Hova is absurd.

My issue with wildbill isn't about Campbell, so being an Idolater, you can keep out of the debate, whether I engage in a little hyperbole or not.

Now I feel I am getting into the discussion between you and wildbill, but at the same time, who is to say that Orton won't benefit from the luxuries that Cutler had in Denver - ya know legit WRs and OL production.

I mean, contrary to your statement, it can be argued that Orton had the worse season of the three last year - and he was playing in Chicago. It can also be argued that Cutler had the best season of the three - and he was playing in Denver.

Oldfan has a thread where he says that QBs get too much of the blame and too much of the credit for offensive production in a passing game. If wildbill is right here, then it may be exactly what Oldfan is talking about.

[bubba9497]

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as the starter.

Jason Campbell is 16-20.

Just sayin is all...

are they pitchers?

BTW the year he got 10 of those wins his stats were

2005- 190/368 51.6% 1,869 yard 5.1 YPA 9 TD 13 INT 30 Sacks 59.7 QBR

just saying

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

jason campbell never gets fired up, so please throw that out the window. whether he wins, who knows.

[Thinking Skins]

are they pitchers?

BTW the year he got 10 of those wins his stats were

2005- 190/368 51.6% 1,869 yard 5.1 YPA 9 TD 13 INT 30 Sacks 59.7 QBR

just saying

And whats funny is that the year he put up those stats and took them to the paloffs, and Lovie was talking about starting Grossman the next year, I was so in favor of them keeping Orton because the guy had proven he could be a good QB.

So many teams want to be flashy instead of being consistent and good.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I asked this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll ask it again here:

Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 3rd round pick for Orton. Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 5th round pick for Orton.

I mean, hey, the guy is 21-12 and allegedly had an "overall statistically better" season last year...not to mention McDaniels feels Orton is a better QB as well.

Hell, raise your hand if you'd get excited for this upcoming season if Snyder and Vinny traded Campbell for Orton straight up.

[PROSCOUT]

I asked this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll ask it again here:

Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 3rd round pick for Orton. Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 5th round pick for Orton.

I mean, hey, the guy is 21-12 and allegedly had an "overall statistically better" season last year...not to mention McDaniels feels Orton is a better QB as well.

Hell, raise your hand if you'd get excited for this upcoming season if Snyder and Vinny traded Campbell for Orton straight up.

No, but I'd trade Campbell for Halle Berry.:laugh:

[Califan007 The Constipated]

No, but I'd trade Campbell for Halle Berry.:laugh:

:rotflmao:

[TSO]

I'm glad you see that Orton having less yards, a lower completion percentage, more interceptions, and a lower rating implies that he had a better overall statistical season than Campbell.

Orton
SPLIT
       CMP  ATT  YDS  CMP%  YPA  LNG  TD  INT  SACK  RAT  
2008    272  465 2972  58.5  6.39  65  18   12    27 79.6

Campbell
SPLIT
       CMP  ATT  YDS  CMP%  YPA  LNG  TD  INT  SACK  RAT
2008    315  506 3245  62.3  6.41  67  13   6     38 84.3

Now you care to me how his stats are better?

Oh yeah, the more TDs. You're so gooood at reading stats.

Lets look at a few more important stats in the Orton vs Campbell matchup.

In the 2nd half of games in 2008, Orton has a 7 TDs and 8 INTs and a rating of 66.1.

In the 2nd half of games in 2008, Campbell has 7 TDs and 5 INTs and a rating of 84.5.

On third down in 2008, Orton has 4 TDs and 3 INTs and a rating of 70.5

On third down in 2008, Campbell has 3 TDs and 1 INTs and a rating of 79.7

When trailing in 2008, Orton has 6 TDs 7 INTs and a rating of 65.3

When trailing in 2008, Campbell has 6 TDs 4 INTs and a rating of 82.6

The thing is there is no ABSOLUTE measure of better players. But when you make a statement like "player x had a better overall statistical season than player y", it generally means that player x beats player y in every category, or at least almost every category.

The fact that Orton doesn't beat Campbell in 3 significant categories means you can't say that. If you want to rank offensive points and passing TDs as the categories that Orton's better, then just say that. But your first statement was like Orton was like a HOFer and Campbell was lucky to be in the league. Sorry, I aint buyin that.

The points in these posts should be taken and accepted, with no room for counter-argument. It's unfortunate if that's not the case. At this point, that'd be like arguing that the sky isn't blue.

Now I feel I am getting into the discussion between you and wildbill, but at the same time, who is to say that Orton won't benefit from the luxuries that Cutler had in Denver - ya know legit WRs and OL production.

I mean, contrary to your statement, it can be argued that Orton had the worse season of the three last year - and he was playing in Chicago. It can also be argued that Cutler had the best season of the three - and he was playing in Denver.

Oldfan has a thread where he says that QBs get too much of the blame and too much of the credit for offensive production in a passing game. If wildbill is right here, then it may be exactly what Oldfan is talking about.

Not just Oldfan, Thinking Skins... but every single QB and Head Coach in the NFL believe that to be the truth. Or at least that's what they say.

And while Jason was facing the Pittsburg defense and the Baltimore defense last season, kyle Orton was busy facing the 0-16 Detroit Lions and the 5-11 Jacksonville Jags during those 2 weeks.

It really does make a difference WHO you play, what your schedule is, and what players surround you. Its a team game.

I agree. Not to mention the Cowboys, Eagles, and Giants Defense's twice. Of course, we'll be told that's just an excuse, nevermind the fact that Campbell managed above average stats in a year where he played against top defenses consistently.

[TSO]

jason campbell never gets fired up, so please throw that out the window. whether he wins, who knows.

Really? How about his first year starting when he ran for a first down, got up, and threw his hands up in the air for the crowd to get louder? How about last year after he threw the TD bomb to Moss against NO? That don't count?

And before you fire back with "oh, fine, he rarely does then", you should've thought about saying that in the first place instead of your constant gross exaggerations.

I asked this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll ask it again here:

Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 3rd round pick for Orton. Raise your hand if you'd be all for Snyder and Vinny trading Campbell and our 5th round pick for Orton.

I mean, hey, the guy is 21-12 and allegedly had an "overall statistically better" season last year...not to mention McDaniels feels Orton is a better QB as well.

Hell, raise your hand if you'd get excited for this upcoming season if Snyder and Vinny traded Campbell for Orton straight up.

Nice, Califan. I won't hold my breath for any takers here though.

[ExoDus84]

Campbell had a statistically better year than orton, but the skins still had significantly more offensive talent around him. Who the hell was kyle orton throwing to last season? Devin hester? Please. Moss, Cooley, portis, thomas, and randle-el, while collectively being only a little above average, were still much better than what orton was working with. Orton also played in a less quarterback friendly environment (cold, windy, etc), and had an inferior defense. I think he did well given what he had last season. There's no reason to think Orton couldn't at least put up campbell's numbers if he was in B&G.