jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan He's gotten a raw deal on this, mainly because of lazy reporters and comedians who would rather distort the record by laughing at Gore. He got a raw deal because he said something so stupid and wrong. The Internet was created by about 30 scientest, started with ARPA and then become huge. If it wasn't for one man, J. C. R. Licklider, then there wouldn't be any internet at all. He was the one in charge and for all of you computer geeks they know him as "Lick". The government has been so behind on the internet all along, they just jumped on the bandwagon at the end. This is similar to Papa Bush and his "No New Taxes" quote. Gore should have stuck with what he knew and that was the environment. He offended many people with what he said, so I don't feel sorry for him. Let me guess when I2 is ready will he say he invented that too? :puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by fansince62 the Internet as it exists today really took off with the invention of HTTP, HTML and allied protocols. What did Al Gore have to do with this from a technical, policy or funding pov? Correct, however I would say it really took off after Netscape Navigater was created. At first all the internet was just a bunch of links and text, once Netscape found a way to embed images on the HTML files that is when the internet became popular with the public. When the internet was just text, not a lot of people were interested. I know because I have been working on it since the mid 90's and the growth of web pages didn't explode untill you could use tables and graphics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 So which is it, all-knowing stuffed shirts? The military was way head on everything? Or private scientists were? I gave you the entire quote. Why not pick on the sentence prior to that, where Gore said he's been th "every part" of the country? Clearly that's physically impossible for him to personally touch every atom. For some reason fansince keeps saying "Father of the Internet". I have no idea where that came from but I'll accept a claim that he "invented" it.:laugh: You people are making an intellectually dishonest argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Here is the Timeline http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/ now some points "1969 ARPANET commissioned by DoD for research into networking Nodes are stood up as BBN builds each IMP [Honeywell DDP-516 mini computer with 12K of memory]; AT&T provides 50kbps lines" "1971 Ray Tomlinson of BBN invents email program to send messages across a distributed network. The original program was derived from two others: an intra-machine email program (SENDMSG) and an experimental file transfer program (CPYNET)" "1971 15 nodes (23 hosts): UCLA, SRI, UCSB, Univ of Utah, BBN, MIT, RAND, SDC, Harvard, Lincoln Lab, Stanford, UIU©, CWRU, CMU, NASA/Ames BBN starts building IMPs using the cheaper Honeywell 316. IMPs however are limited to 4 host connections, and so BBN develops a terminal IMP (TIP) that supports up to 64 terminals (September) Ray Tomlinson of BBN invents email program to send messages across a distributed network. The original program was derived from two others: an intra-machine email program (SENDMSG) and an experimental file transfer program (CPYNET) " Now after all the success with the ARPANET then this happened "1982 Norway leaves network to become an Internet connection via TCP/IP over SATNET; UCL does the same DCA and ARPA establish the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and Internet Protocol (IP), as the protocol suite, commonly known as TCP/IP, for ARPANET. This leads to one of the first definitions of an "internet" as a connected set of networks, specifically those using TCP/IP, and "Internet" as connected TCP/IP internets. DoD declares TCP/IP suite to be standard for DoD " Then this happened, without it the WWW wouldn't even exist "1984 Domain Name System (DNS) introduced Number of hosts breaks 1,000" "1993 Mosaic takes the Internet by storm (22 Apr); WWW proliferates at a 341,634% annual growth rate of service traffic. Gopher's growth is 997%. " This was the beginning of Nescape and the ability to use tables and graphics on line. By the time Gore talked about this in 86 as you can see it was wwell already under way. Like I said in a previous post the government jumped on the bandwagon at the end. It was DoD that started all of this with the scientests, then they just continued to work and work on it till we have what we had today. No one can say one man created the internet it was a joint program with many other nations. The military created the ideal, the scientest made it a reality. Our government knew what was going on but were so behind on it. It wasn't till 1996 that the actually passed some sort of bill regarding the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Jesus Christ - doesnt anyone here see the difference between I took the initiative in creating the Internet and I invented the Internet? TOOK THE INIATITIVE IN CREATING and INVENT - they are quite different you know. Why did pundits feel the need to change what Gore said? Especially if you guys feel they mean the same thing? Exactly. They don't mean the same thing. That will be all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Jesus Christ - doesnt anyone here see the difference between I took the initiative in creating the Internet and I invented the Internet? TOOK THE INIATITIVE IN CREATING and INVENT - they are quite different you know. Yes they are different, but he wasn't either. That is what I have been trying to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma Yes they are different, but he wasn't either. That is what I have been trying to say So you are saying that Cerf's assertions have no merit? The guy (Cerf) who is labeled "Father of the Internet" by some? The guy (Cerf again) who was a co-creater of the TCP/IP protocol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius So you are saying that Cerf's assertions have no merit? The guy (Cerf) who is labeled "Father of the Internet" by some? The guy (Cerf again) who was a co-creater of the TCP/IP protocol? I am not saying that, but as you said SOME think of him as the father of the Internet. TCIP was huge, but what made the INTERNET as we know it big was HTTP, HTML, Email, Graphics, Browsers, without the browser there is no internet. Gore might have brought some people in congress to see it, but the internet was it's own beast. Similar to when a baby is born, the cells and neurotransmittes grow at an incredible pace. If Gore said something along the lines of "In my years in Congress I tried to make the others see how important the Internet would become", then we wouldn't be having this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 jbooma, surely you must grasp that Gore was not making some sweeping claim, he was giving an unrehearsed answer to an interviewer's question. You be the judge: Al Gore, off-the-cuff: During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system. George W. Bush, off-the-cuff: There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again! If you believe the first shows Gore to have credibility problems, you must believe the second shows the President to be a babbling moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma I am not saying that, but as you said SOME think of him as the father of the Internet. TCIP was huge, but what made the INTERNET as we know it big was HTTP, HTML, Email, Graphics, Browsers, without the browser there is no internet. Gore might have brought some people in congress to see it, but the internet was it's own beast. Similar to when a baby is born, the cells and neurotransmittes grow at an incredible pace. If Gore said something along the lines of "In my years in Congress I tried to make the others see how important the Internet would become", then we wouldn't be having this debate. I pointed out earlier that what Gore said was clumsily worded. But the fact remains, if the pundits hadn't twisted what was truly said (like Dowd has done recently with Dubya), then we really wouldn't be having this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius I pointed out earlier that what Gore said was clumsily worded. But the fact remains, if the pundits hadn't twisted what was truly said (like Dowd has done recently with Dubya), then we really wouldn't be having this argument. I agree, but also we have to look at when he said it and what was happening, this was the time of the big Internet Boom, if anyone in the public eye were to say what he said then the same result would have happened to them. It was on everyone's mind at the time. That is why it turned to such a big deal, like I said before similar to what Dad Bush said about taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma similar to what Dad Bush said about taxes. Oh, come on. Bush Sr. ran his entire 1988 campaign with his greatest applause line (probably in hundreds of speeches) being: "Read my lips: no new taxes." I saw one of those speeches in person. By then it had become a kind of audience mind-meld mantra, like a religious invocation. So, you're saying Gore in essence gave hundreds of speeches with the cardinal applause line being: "Read my lips: I invented the Internet"? There are lots of ways Gore can be tarred and feathered (many appropriately), but this Internet smear is truly unfair. It managed to transform a genuine strength into distortion and ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan Oh, come on. Bush Sr. ran his entire 1988 campaign with his greatest applause line (probably in hundreds of speeches) being: "Read my lips: no new taxes." I saw one of those speeches in person. By then it had become a kind of audience mind-meld mantra, like a religious invocation. So, you're saying Gore in essence gave hundreds of speeches with the cardinal applause line being: "Read my lips: I invented the Internet"? There are lots of ways Gore can be tarred and feathered (many appropriately), but this Internet smear is truly unfair. It managed to transform a genuine strength into distortion and ridicule. ASF if you read what I said, I brought up the point about Bush Sr because he said that during a time of economic problems, that is whay that quote hurt him. Gore did the same thing with his quote during the internet boom. The question I ask did Gore ever apoligize for what he said and word it correctly? Bush at least did apoligize later. I don't think he should be tarred and feathered, but the Internet is a major part of history and if you say something like Gore said you can see why it became such a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Gore should apologize for Republican dishonesty? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by JimboDaMan Gore should apologize for Republican dishonesty? :doh: yep he invented that too, hahahahha i was saying i wondered if Gore ever apoligized for how he worded his internet speech?? Thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 jeepers Mr Wilson....I sure don't see much credit receiving it's due if this (possibly politically motivated) recommendation is so... not one mention of the co-Father here INTERESTING HISTORY, BUT...NOPE...NOT HERE EITHER! not here hmmm...not here from the representative whose company MCI has done such an outstanding job... not here either or here I don't get it.....why no mention in any of his bios or histories on Big Al's seminal role? geez...I'm contracting ASF-syndrome..."HELP MR WIZARD"!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Those people were in the Congress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 "After all this I do remember that there 'is no legal controlling authority ' on who invented the creation of the internet even though I did have an intiative to do it for the children, I think" Al Gore circa 2025. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by fansince62 jeepers Mr Wilson....I sure don't see much credit receiving it's due if this (possibly politically motivated) recommendation is so... not one mention of the co-Father here INTERESTING HISTORY, BUT...NOPE...NOT HERE EITHER! not here hmmm...not here from the representative whose company MCI has done such an outstanding job... not here either or here I don't get it.....why no mention in any of his bios or histories on Big Al's seminal role? geez...I'm contracting ASF-syndrome..."HELP MR WIZARD"!!!! Excellent - post multiple bios. Now, tell me again, how did you ignore the letter that was posted in the previous page. You know, the one that was co-written by Cerf? Selectively ignored, I guess, would be your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by aREDSKIN "After all this I do remember that there 'is no legal controlling authority ' See, that's more like it. There are lots of fair ways to tar and feather Al Gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan I'll toss in two cents here, because I've worked in the computer industry since 1985 and have authored a number of long-term strategic studies during that time, with a particular focus on the Internet. Wait a minute, you invented the internet too! Unbelievable! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 TEG... That was an excellent explanation. I never knew that the Gore comment has any bit of truth until I looked it up myself and found that he actually did have a hand in "officially creating the internet as we know it today through legislation". People want to make it out as he was the Tech Geek that physically invented the internet, but he never claimed anything as such. Regardless, I still think he's a doofus.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Excellent - post multiple bios. Now, tell me again, how did you ignore the letter that was posted in the previous page. You know, the one that was co-written by Cerf? Selectively ignored, I guess, would be your answer. Cert wrote that article since he gave money to Gore to run for president and wanted to see something out of his investment :jerkoff: Let me guess you still think Gore won the election :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I guess its Al Gore that just convinced Microsoft to let AOL to use its browser for the next seven years. The end of Netscape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 TEG....my point was that all of the biographies/histories Cerf himself has posted on the Internet about the genesis of the Internet do not accord one iota of recognition to Big Al. Beyond the technical niceties...if Big Al played such a crucial role wouldn't you think he deserved some mention from little Vinton? Or do you think there might be some politics behind this? just a wee bit that the rest of you neglected to mention....perhaps Cerf received an award from the Clinton adminstration? Nope.....I'm with ASF on this one. This is another blatant obfuscation of the truth. Another attempt to distort history. The media is again misleading us. How do I know that really was from Cerf? Maybe the love letter was really cyber-penned by the DJ (Cerf) who used to work WHFS in the 70s. Is it digitally signed? while your appeals to "authority" are entertaining....I have taken the remonstrations on this board to heart: I don't believe anything I read or hear anymore. They're all lieing!!!!! The Horror! The Horror!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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