LT Smash Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 My problem is that we're not putting a price on a FRANCHISE QB, so to say, as much as we'd be putting a price on someone who could be our franchise quarterback.A first round bust is bad. A four-first round pick bust is, well, worse. Again, I am PRO Campbell and NOT in the Cult of Colt, but if Campbell stinks it up, then why not just see what we have in Brennan next year? If this were Brady or Manning or Montana, then I'll be jumping for it, but it's not; it's just Jay Cutler at this point, who is still a risk. you cant consider what campbell cost when deciding whether or not to pull this trigger. those picks are gone, they dont have an effect on what we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Based on what I've seen and what I already know, there's no doubt in my mind Cutler right now is the better QB. Still, I'm 100% behind Jason Campbell, and that is in part because I know that he can meet and exceed that level of play. The talent is there, the maturity, and professionalism is all there. If Jason makes anywhere near the kind of leap he made from 2007 to 2008, he a championship winning QB. Maybe not Peyton Manning, but good enough to win us a super bowl, and he'll only be in his 5th season. That's homecooking.:helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofizz Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Once again, I wonder why people on this website waste their time on this. Cutler will NOT be a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I don't want this trade to happen not because Cutler can't play but because we are way more than a QB from the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl is the point. Use those picks we would have spent on Cutler on young linemen and then go get a franchise QB when we can protect him and 4th Quarter leads. The problem with this rationale is, you don't just get an opportunity to acquire a "franchise QB" all the time. In fact, I really don't remember the last time a guy of Cutler's quality and experience at his age, became available. As much as we would like to build the lines and WR corps first, you have to take an opportunity like this. I'd sacrifice this season and even next in order to get a guy like Cutler who can win for the next 8 or 9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleskins Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Cutler's arm makes Candle's look like a wet noodle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The problem with this rationale is, you don't just get an opportunity to acquire a "franchise QB" all the time. In fact, I really don't remember the last time a guy of Cutler's quality and experience at his age, became available... It's never happened before. I think McDaniels seriously misjudged the talent levels of Cassel v. Cutler in bringing this mess about. He's probably aware of it now that there has been so much interest and discussion about Cutler's value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 What you say is true as a general rule, but I think this is the exceptional case. Do you draft a QB and invest three or four years to find out whether he can play or not or take the best young talent in the league?One player like Cutler makes us as good as any team in a league of mediocre teams for the next ten years. I just don't agree...Refresh my memory...has he led his team to the playoffs? Has he even led a team to an above .500 record? Has he won at any level? Sure he has thrown for more TD's and more YD's than JC but has it led to more wins? Plus he turns the ball over A LOT more than JC...45 over the last 3yrs to JC's 32...So why is he guaranteed to make us better? This team is just as mediocre as Denver has been over the last few yrs...what's gonna be different here than what he had in Denver to all of a sudden make him a winner? Cutler positives:Big arm, can drive the ball in Giant's Stadium in December. Young. Killer deep ball. Short motion and good feet. Played in a WCO attack under Shanahan. Cutler Negatives: Huge price tag in picks. Acquisition leaves holes on roster. Team Chemistry? What has he ever won? He has the same playoff record as Campbell. I don't want this trade to happen not because Cutler can't play but because we are way more than a QB from the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl is the point. Use those picks we would have spent on Cutler on young linemen and then go get a franchise QB when we can protect him and 4th Quarter leads. My sentiments exactly... The problem with this rationale is, you don't just get an opportunity to acquire a "franchise QB" all the time. In fact, I really don't remember the last time a guy of Cutler's quality and experience at his age, became available. As much as we would like to build the lines and WR corps first, you have to take an opportunity like this. I'd sacrifice this season and even next in order to get a guy like Cutler who can win for the next 8 or 9 years. What makes him a "franchise QB"? This doesn't make sense at all...If you're willing to throw away 2 seasons just for Cutler...Why not just draft a QB keep our picks and cap space and surround the rookie QB with talent? Instead you'd rather mortgage our future to get a so called "franchise QB", and not be able to put anything around him b/c we have no quality draft picks and we have no cap space...Why does this make sense to people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 jtyler42: I just don't agree...Refresh my memory...has he led his team to the playoffs? Has he even led a team to an above .500 record?.. No, he hasn't. But let me refresh your memory still further -- he only plays one of the 22 positions on offense and defense, he doesn't play special teams, he doesn't coach and he hasn't been in charge of Denver's personnel department (although he could probably have done it better than the previous regime). He just plays one very important position and he did it at a Pro Bowl level in just his third year in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No, he hasn't. But let me refresh your memory still further -- he only plays one of the 22 positions on offense and defense, he doesn't play special teams, he doesn't coach and he hasn't been in charge of Denver's personnel department (although he could probably have done it better than the previous regime).He just plays one very important position and he did it at a Pro Bowl level in just his third year in the league. Let's not make excuses for him...People won't accept excuses from JC17 supporters...When it pertains to JC17 it's cut and dry, either he got it done or he didn't, other players on the field, special teams, coaching and the front office were all irrelevant when it came to him...So lets treat Cutler the same... He made the Pro Bowl...Big whoop, so he individually accomplished something but his team still stunk...He didn't make his team better, he didn't put the team on his back and carry the team to the playoffs...All things JC17 has been bashed for on this board for not doing...So I guess it's better to be 8-8 with a QB who throws for 4500yds 25td's/20to's, than a QB who throws for 3200yds 13td's/7to's and still finishes 8-8... Tell me how he is going to make us better, when he hasn't proven he can do the things JC17 supposedly can't either: win the big game, and take a team to the paloffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 What makes him a "franchise QB"? This doesn't make sense at all...If you're willing to throw away 2 seasons just for Cutler...Why not just draft a QB keep our picks and cap space and surround the rookie QB with talent? Instead you'd rather mortgage our future to get a so called "franchise QB", and not be able to put anything around him b/c we have no quality draft picks and we have no cap space...Why does this make sense to people? Thanks for the high hanging curve ball. You do this because Cutler is a proven commodity. Drafting a 1st round QB is a crap shoot. (See Campbell, Jason). The reason Denver has been mediocre has obviously been their LACK OF DEFENSE. Our mediocrity has been from LACK OF OFFENSE. This is how Cutler makes us a winner sooner rather than later. Put on your thinking cap. We always make cap space. We almost always draft poorly. The sooner we realize that if we can get young, proven players, we need to do it...the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Let's not make excuses for him...People won't accept excuses from JC17 supporters...When it pertains to JC17 it's cut and dry, either he got it done or he didn't, other players on the field, special teams, coaching and the front office were all irrelevant when it came to him...So lets treat Cutler the same... That's a nonsensical argument no matter which QB it's used against. Team stats aren't individual stats. He made the Pro Bowl...Big whoop.. Here are the opinions of a few experts who disagree with you. Boomer Esiason to the New York Post -- March 21, 2009 "I'm telling you, if I could get this kid, I would go guns a-blazing and try to get him," Esiason said. "I don't know what it would take, but he's a kid that can play here for the next 10 years. This is not Brett Favre, a one-year Band-Aid. This is a totally different story. "This is a kid who, if he does get traded - which I think is going to happen - you're getting him . . . smack dab in midst of his prime." I doubt that Cutler's 2008 Pro Bowl season changed the minds of the experts quoted in December of 2007. ESPN.com granted anonymity to two pro scouts, one personnel director, a defensive coordinator and a defensive backs coach in exchange for unvarnished evaluations. "The kid in Denver, to me he is the future of this league," an AFC pro scout said. "I would jump on that boat," an NFC personnel director said. "He isn't quite there, but you see those flashes of a guy who, once he has the whole playbook in his mind and he's made all the mistakes he needs to make in learning it, man, he's going to be a special player." "I love him," the AFC scout said. "He's athletic, poised, smart, accurate -- and there was just something about that kid coming out, the way he was wired." "He has an unbelievable career ahead of him," the NFC personnel director said. "He is Romo sits to pee [in terms of confidence] with the physical tools to match. He's fun to watch because he's kind of like the kid who plays quarterback down at the playground. 'Let's just go play.' "He has a cannon of an arm, obviously, and when he's in the pocket, he has the arm strength to make all the throws," an NFC pro scout said. "Throw in the fact that he can move around and buy additional time, and he's got a pretty impressive arsenal in terms of ability and arm strength and feet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Unless Cutler is dead set on getting out to point of sitting out OTA's and holding out of camp I dont see him getting traded. If does want out teams like the Browns or Jets can probably offer Denver a more attractive package of players and picks than we can. Having looked deep into my crystal ball here is what I see happening. Cutler and the Broncos smooth things out and he ends up going nowhere. Opening day JC is under centre for the Burgundy and Gold and ....then my ball goes cloudy and I have no idea. This is put up or move out year for Jason and I think in the right situation he can be a good NFL QB. Is this the right situation? Getting better pass protection and the development of one of Thomas or Kelly will be key. It will also be really interesting to see how Colt goes in preseason. Could he push Colins for the #2 spot? For the record I'm not pro Campbell, pro Colt or pro Cutler for that matter. I will support whomever is under centre for us. I'm just hopeful that one day soon someone puts up their hand and by consistent demonstrated performances makes the position their own for the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks for the high hanging curve ball. You do this because Cutler is a proven commodity. Drafting a 1st round QB is a crap shoot. (See Campbell, Jason). The reason Denver has been mediocre has obviously been their LACK OF DEFENSE. Our mediocrity has been from LACK OF OFFENSE. This is how Cutler makes us a winner sooner rather than later. Put on your thinking cap. We always make cap space. We almost always draft poorly. The sooner we realize that if we can get young, proven players, we need to do it...the better. ooooooh...so they didnt make the playoffs because their defense didnt score enough points? gotcha :thumbsup: Im sure that the losing of 7 RBs didnt cause any of that. Or the fact that Cutler just folded under the pressure and lost out to Philip Rivers. I mean they went 8-8 and lost in the sorry ass AFC West!! they werent even able to win in that division and you think theyll do ok in the NFC East? come on man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 ooooooh...so they didnt make the playoffs because their defense didnt score enough points? gotcha :thumbsup: No, Mike, Denver's defense couldn't stop the other team from scoring just like the Chargers defense couldn't stop anyone. Both teams were effective on offense. Im sure that the losing of 7 RBs didnt cause any of that. If Denver had a running game, Cutler's numbers would be better. Or the fact that Cutler just folded under the pressure and lost out to Philip Rivers. The QB plays just one position on offense, none on defense or special teams. Rivers and Cutler played their positions well according to most experts and knowledgeable football fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No, Mike, Denver's defense couldn't stop the other team from scoring just like the Chargers defense couldn't stop anyone. Both teams were effective on offense. They played 6 games against sorry ass teams like The Chiefs, the Chargers and the Raiders. You mean they couldnt put up big enough numbers against those teams? they lost to the Chefs 33-19. They lose to the Raiders 31-10. They lose to the Chargers 52!!!!-10. You mean thats a winner right there? If you look at his win/loss record when they win they win BIG but when they lose they collapse. If Denver had a running game, Cutler's numbers would be better. and if my uncle had boobs he would be my aunt. you do what you can with what you have. he had great numbers but he folds when under pressure. The QB plays just one position on offense, none on defense or special teams. Rivers and Cutler played their positions well according to most experts and knowledgeable football fans. Philip Rivers is a head case just like Cutler. They are both too highly emotional and talk WAY too much. They are distractions to their teams when they do interviews and its not shocking that the 2 big mouths dont like each other. They run off at the yapper too much. You really think a QB who goes 3-3 against the sorry ass AFC West can do better in the NFC East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I've been reading more than posting on this debate, but I have to hand it to BigMike. I usually don't agree with what he says, but he's got some very intriguing and interesting points that he's making here. There's really a good debate going on both sides, for that matter. But BigMike definitely deserves some props for post #115. I may chime in at some point declaring my stance, or I may keep reading. Good entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I've been reading more than posting on this debate, but I have to hand it to BigMike. I usually don't agree with what he says, but he's got some very intriguing and interesting points that he's making here.There's really a good debate going on both sides, for that matter. But BigMike definitely deserves some props for post #115. I may chime in at some point declaring my stance, or I may keep reading. Good entertainment you mean you dont fully agree that I am Captain Awesome? I know a litlte about Cutler living out here in San Diego. He is better then Campbell but I think he benefits from the weak division. Everyone has a good point in here as well. I also think our frustration levels with Campbell are so high that we just want ANYTHING that can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 They played 6 games against sorry ass teams like The Chiefs, the Chargers and the Raiders. You mean they couldnt put up big enough numbers against those teams? So, your argument is that, no matter how bad his defense, special teams and running game was, Cutler's passing game should have been able to cover their ineptitude if he was a winning QB. Is that it? Philip Rivers is a head case just like Cutler. Pure baloney. You really think a QB who goes 3-3 against the sorry ass AFC West can do better in the NFC East? If he comes alone and plays with our team instead of Denver's, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 :I know a litlte about Cutler living out here in San Diego. Very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 So, your argument is that, no matter how bad his defense, special teams and running game was, Cutler's passing game should have been able to cover their ineptitude if he was a winning QB. Is that it? No, what Im saying is that Peyton Manning has never been able to benefit from a good D and he won a ring. So did Kurt Warner. Jay Cutler has not proven anything and he snuck in to the Pro Bowl last year. If any QB deserved to get in it was Rivers. Pure baloney. which part? the fact that Rivers is a head case or that Cutler is? You cant tell me that Cutler didnt fold under pressure when he gave up a 3 game lead in the weak division he is in. And then when he was able to play the team he could beat and get in to the playoffs he CRUMBLED!! they were outmatched and outplayed by the Chargers on all sides of the ball. The Rivers head case part is a different thread. If he comes alone and plays with our team instead of Denver's, why not? why not? because Philly is NOT Oakland. The Cowbums are NOT the Chefs. The Gnats are NOT the Chargers. All of the teams in our division are extremely competitive and very strong. You cant tell me you expect the Raiders or the Chiefs to make the playoffs every year but you can say that about any team in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Very little. ouch man, thats uncalled for and just shows youre acting out here. I have come to you with respect and addressed the thread as is without taking cheap shots. cant you do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I may chime in at some point declaring my stance, or I may keep reading. Good entertainment Ah, c'mon, Dawg. Don't tease us. I'm interested in your opinion on Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 ouch man, thats uncalled for and just shows youre acting out here. I have come to you with respect and addressed the thread as is without taking cheap shots.cant you do the same? My apologies, Mike. I should have put a smiley on it. I didn't mean the crack maliciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 My apologies, Mike. I should have put a smiley on it. I didn't mean the crack maliciously. aah...then my bad for being an overreactive little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 How about... Let's merge this thread with sticky thread on Cutler. Why are we evaluating someone we are not going to have on our team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.