The O-Line Issue is Overrated...

[Rufus T Firefly]

Uh, no, it was 06, the year Portis was hurt. That is what drove the trade.

You're right. I was thinking the Duckett and Lloyd trades were seperate years because they were each a 3rd and a 4th, so they weren't the same year. But, of course, the Lloyd deal was pre-draft.

[Chump Bailey]

I have to respectfully disagree chief. IMO, we pretty much need a new right side - including C. I much prefer Kendall to that of Thomas whose play IMO has dropped off quite a bit. Kendall is a machine and I would have little concern about bringing him back for another season and possibly two. C, RG, RT IMO are weak spots. I know that's not going to happen likely because of cap concerns, but I think that should be the goal in the next two seasons.

[Pounds]

I think the o-line is the weakest unit on this roster and, at this point, probably has most bearing on Campbell's, or an QB playing behind them, development.

Age and injury has ravaged this line. It's still a pretty good run blocking unit, but they sure did have their struggles against more athletic fronts. Pete Kendall, Randy Thomas and Casey Rabach all had their struggles - at different times - in pass blocking, with run blocking serving as their strength. Chris Samuels is still solid, but for how much longer at LT?.

Age, more than any one factor, makes our o-line issue one we have to address.

[IbleedBnG83]

The importance of both defensive and offensive lines are NEVER overrated, especially when we had arguably both in the bottom 10 teams in the league.

[HighOnHendrix]

I'd argue that Jansen is perhaps the worst pass blocking RT starting anywhere in the NFL at this juncture in his career. Randy Thomas, has not only aged rapidly, but has not been even a shadow of his former self since the injury. The entire right side of this OL gets collapsed into the pocket perpetually on passing downs, and can't impose it's will consistently versus the run, nor in short yardage situations.

Yeah, notice how many times Portis ran to the left this year? Barring a draft-pick tree suddenly sprouting on the grounds of Redskins Park, the only starting player we'll be able to replace this year will be Jansen. The other starters will hold up this year, but next year this HAS to be the FO's main focus. The D-line needs to be addressed this year, too, remember; I think our LB's will have to muddle through with present personnel.

[Chump Bailey]

The importance of both defensive and offensive lines are NEVER overrated

They are here for some reason apparently

[GaryGreenMonk]

what we really need is to get rid of all the p***ified prima dona power puff piece of crap players on our team and get some real football players...

I don't want to practice.. whine whine waaaaaahhhhh....

I don't want to participate in offseason work outs... whine whine waaaahhhh....

I dont' want to play this down.... whine whine waaaahhhh

My calf hurts.. i can't play... whine whine waaaaaahhhh

etc.. etc.. etc...

get rid of them all. in case you haven't noticed.. the teams with the real hard nosed players are the ones winning. Teams with whining losers like us, the Bengals, and cowboys aren't winning crap.

those teams are good at 2 things.. inconsistancy and losing when it counts.

[D'Pablo]

Our old, injured O-Line will only regress further in future seasons. If we think these injuries aren't going to occur again, we're being completely unrealistic. It's time to get younger, bigger, and more athletic. Anything an offense does is predicated on an amazing line, so I'd think long and hard before I classify our O-line situation as 'overrated.'

I hate Vinny, but he can make our O-line a whole lot better this offseason. If he takes an OT in the first and signs Jason Brown, we're instantly in better shape. There is also a good chance we can find some depth in the later rounds at guard. Personally, I'd cut Fabini and Jansen. At this point in their careers, those guys drag down the size and athleticism of our line.

[LandryLaysWood]

Casey Rabach at times gets owned. Chris Samuels has been accruing injuries. Jon Jansen is done. Randy Thomas and Pete Kendall are both really old. Heyer is not a starter by any means. Rinehardt has instilled no confidence in the coaches whatsoever.

You're right...the offensive line problem probably is overrated. Let's continue to ignore it. Anybody watch the defensive analysis of both Super Bowl teams during pregame where they showed highlights of the two defenses dominating offensive lines. Hmm...was that the Redskins they showed for both teams? Our offensive line is pitiful wake up!

[Veretax]

It gets redundant listening to people complain about the O-line, and the hate we get for neglecting the lines is way too much. The line was bad for the last 8 games, but we have to consider Heyer and Samuels were hurt.

We have had one of the best O-lines in the NFL for the past 5 years. Our line was getting so much praise early in the Season, Riggins even compared them to the Hogs.

Lets analyze our O-lineman:

Samuels- Perrenial Pro-bowl tackle, no need to draft early round tackle yet.

Randy Thomas- He used to be one of the better guards in the NFL, and he still plays at a high level IMO. He was playing great the last few seasons, so I can't knock him.

Rabach- He was playing SOLID when we got him from the Ravens. And he was only 26. I Can understand why we didn't view it as a weakness.

Dockery- Although he isn't with us anymore, I think he would have been a great fit with us and he was young, but he wanted too much money. He is not great, but he is obviously talented due to the big deal he got.

Jansen- I know this guy gets a lot of hate, but this guy used to be Mr. Redskin. He was one of the better tackles in the NFL a few years ago, and he has been with us his whole career.

If you ask me, that lineup is not to shabby. The age is now starting to catch up though, but I can certainly see why we didn't use 1st or 2nd round picks for lineman, when we have had one of the better lines in the league.

Don't get me wrong, O-line is a weakness on our team. But this is a weakness that has just surfaced, with the aging of Jansen and the releasing of Dockery. With a few solid moves, we can still have a solid O-line. Samuels is still a pro-bowler, and Randy Thomas still plays at that level as well.

Our O-line was barely workable last year. Barely, if Heyer or Fabini had really been any good, do you think we would have suffered so much when guys got hurt? I don't think so. We have no depth, we've ignored the lines, have no groomed the depth, and why? Because with Gibbs we were always a player or two away from Super Bowl. He didn't have time to groom anyone.

[SKOALSKIN]

if this were an 8 game league the offensive line would be great. Unfortunatley it's a 16 game marathon. When your old the body breaks down. Here is my assesment of the Oline.

Samuels- Best lineman on the team by far. Still playing at a high level and worthy of protecting the blind side. He is operating in a 3 year window in which we will see a dramatic decline. Has trouble with the athletic hybrid pass rushers i.e. Harrison, Ware, Suggs

Thomas- Old unathletic. Still a brawler and might be able to get through one more year. Overall was a disapointing acquisition. At one point was considered a top 5 guard in the NFL. Play has slipped dramatically and is injury prone.

Rabach- Still capable of playing for a couple more years. Had some critical holding calls late in games. Needs to rid himself of those. I would deem him to be serviceable.

Kendall- Designed to be a stop gap to fill the void left in the Dockery departure and the failed todd wade experiment. Athritic knees a problem. He's cheap though and could be a valued backup. I would not rely on him for 16 games.

Janesn- Signifigant lower body injuries (Achilies/mangled ankle) have this relic of a right tackle on his last legs. He is like old yeller. Beloved by all but its time to take him out back and put him out of his misery. God Speed Jon thanks for your years of service. Enjoy working the booth.

Backups:

Heyer- Not a starter in this league (at this point). He needs work.

Chad Rinehart- was projected to be a 5-7th round pick. He is a Heyer clone. 6-6 314. Decent athlete but not going to be much of anything.

none of these guys are what we need. We need guys that are defined as "Maulers" "plays with a mean streak" people that take pride in beating the opposition up. Instead I see an oline that takes pride in cashing checks and is getting JC killed.

[cheeks]

samuels didnt play at probowl level at all this year, jansen is always commin off an injury an cant pass block anymore he's a back up now thomas is good as long as healthy an rabach gettin weak so many times this year we gave up sacks from him gettin blown up, pete kendall is on the way out his knees are gonna crumble soon, i wanna see more of reinhart an heiyer can be a good starter, he played better than samuels at times

[MumboSauce]

Well, I agree it may be a bit overblown but it needs to be addressed. The online is an injury away from disaster, and at the age these guys are they aren't playing top football for the duration of the season, playing good for a stretch of 4-7 games won't cut it. We need "quality" depth. and a couple guys that can step in without a huge drop off.

[36HAMMER]

age and injuries screwed this line and the franchise as well as the fans of an oppurtunity to see this line really kick. this last year i just wanted these guys to be albe to stay together for once and see what they where capable of together.unfortunately they didn't have much left. they where great one time but not any more. age and injuries especially of the legs hurt lineman more than any other position.jansen was the man on the line , i always felt that he was the real leader of that line not samuels.thomas was great when we got him but at 300 to 305 he is slight at guard by nfl standards anymore. rabach was good when he got here but he was never dominate but he was smart and a blocker who used leverage and angles much more than brute strength or physical traits.but now his have deminished and this last year saw some of the brain part begin to slip,he made many more crucial mental errors this last year than any sense he's been here. kendall, at 35 and with fragile knees is done.maybe, just maybe if his price is low enough we could keep him as a back up. that leaves Samuels,our best olineman. and its seems that every year he's fighting injuries and after awhile that begins to rob you of your abilities.the dline has taylor who never got started after coming in late and getting hurt blew up his year. griffen while a good dt is not the dominate dt he was the first year and injuries are beginning to be a regular problem with him again. that is why the giants let him go in the first place.daniles is done, i believe that the heart burns as bright for football as ever but the body is done. especially the legs and knees.we have a couple of young dt's we should keep but they are not capable at this time to be our full times starters together.and thats just the two lines, which is where the game is won and lost.we won 3 and could have won 4 with a back to back and been the team of the eighties with an oline that was as dominate as any that every was put together.3different qb's with the last one being of back up quality only,but that years oline was soo dominate that they only gave up 12 sacks that whole year.basically carring him and that team to the superbowl in what was one of the most dominateing seasons a team every had at 17-2.we also had 3 diferent rb's as well.if we had the cap space,there are some guys we can get in conjunction with some draft picks that could turn this oline around incredibaly fast, and into a dangerous one at that.if it where possible a line that had at lt-Samuels,lg-D Robinson,C-Mack,rg-only question mark possibly thomas,rt-of either Gross or V Carey.much younger bigger, stronger.but for this to take place the fo would have to trade down from the 13th and somehow get back up into the bottom of the first or top of the second and hope that the center from california is still there.he's been destroying everyone he's played against in the all star game practices.robinson is the best guard. believe me i would be all for getting a young rt out of the draft, but right now i firmly believe that the biggest area of concern is the middle of our oline. meaning the two guards and center, with the rt right there.fa can take care of one takle, and to pull off getting robinson and mack would take some luck and working of the phones by the front office.it really hurt hearing that their 3rd rd pick last year (reinhardt) is sooo far behind and just maybe a bust.when you use soo few picks on lineman you can't afford any busts. i hope he turns it around this offseason.and becomes al that he is capable of because this team needs him. maybe he should move in with buges.ti can be done but the only thing is all that work would really square away our oline. but then we have such needs at dline, lb cb depth.back up qb, signing collins at 3mil a year was a big mistake. the man is soo slow he can't even get out of his own way. his arm is brunnell strong, and he was having alot of trouble picking up this offense.andwe need a true no.1 wr, there, i said it. i really like moss but he disappears to often to be a bonified no.1 wr, but he's dominate no.2. but after spending all the picks on wr last year and all of our other area's of need to go after a dominate wr now would bes soo wrong it would show a fo out of touch with reality.going to be an interesting offseason. can they get some people to buy in and give up some dead presidents.thats what it's going to take for them to do what they need in fa.they just don't have the picks.

[eljeasel]

The OL might be a chicken or egg sort of deal.

Having a healthy Samuels lets you forget about that edge except for the elite edge rushers. It allows you to double the other side which is what we did with Heyer (although hes looking better in pass pro). When Samuels's knee hindered his mobility, we had to keep all the personell possible to protect the edges restricting the passing game further. Hopefully Samuels comes back with no complications securing short term the left side. That really cant be relied on 100% but he will be back in some capacity.

Jansen doesnt have the legs to be the Island at the RT anymore outside of power running plays. Some people think Heyer is the solution, some think hes nothing more than a backup. I think hes in the middle. A capable starter but not the A+ tackle we want. Hes also 25 and works hard as hell, hes a guy you keep cause he will play anywhere you ask.

So, basically adding another tackle could short term do more than people realize by securing one side and then let scheme protect the other side. Of course, thats just step one. The next step is securing both sides, then with quality backup. Easier said then done but we will see what Morroco Brown and Scott Campbell can do this offseason.

The interior is maybe even more confusing to me. People point to Thomas's play as slipping. But I tend to wonder how much of that is Rabach's fault. Pretty consistently I saw Rabach doubling unnessesarily on Kendall's man, not blocking anyone at all, or releasing his man way before he should. Now, I dont pretend to understand the inner workings of the OL but what Casey Rabach is doing cannot be how Center is supposed to be played. Negating 2 touchdowns in one drive is not right. I know there were writers who claimed he was playing at a probowl level. I dont have an explanation for that but that just cannot be right. But it could be that Rabach is doing his job and Thomas and Kendall are the ones not up to par. The interior line needs new dogs too, I would point to the C but maybe Im wrong.