Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The problem with that is the younger generations have been pounded with these beliefs since Kindergarten. They are ingrained to a certain extent, in their thinking. The Govt owes me happiness. Not the pursuit of happiness, but happiness. This country was founded on you and I having the opportunity.....to succeed or fail. That was up to you and me. Nowadays, we have little leagues that don't keep score, Everybody is a winner. Failure is not you fault, it is the fault of those teaching/evaluating you. Hence why graduation standards are basically eighth-grade equivalence exams. College and a good paying job are rights, not something you have to work to attain. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 What does that have to do with government buying better windows from private companies and having them installed by American workers in order to save taxpayer money on heating costs?Are the American people foregoing new windows because of a down economy? Then the govt should be forced to tighten the belt as well. Turn the heat down and demand the employees dress warmer. Tax payer money saved and capital saved that can be spent on something that benefits the masses, not the few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Political arguments are indeed the most frustrating.....I can talk, yell, and scream until I'm blue in the face and some of you on the other side can do the same - we will never change each others' minds. All the meanwhile, we can find 1,0000,00,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 sources throughout history and today to not only agree with our viewpoints but in our eyes justify them as well. I have began to view the tailgate as more of a venting process which therefore allows me to deal with my girlfriend and her mother with a more patient approach. For that I thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dude, you are in such a partisan box that I'm surprised you're not labeling George Washington as a Democrat.This has nothing to do with political parties. Money doesn't care whether you have a D or an R next to your name. Money doesn't care whether or not you've spent the past eight years defending Bush. Money doesn't care whether or not you have an Obama t-shirt. All money cares about is what works, and the past 200 years have proven that what you're saying is fundamentally incorrect. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dude, you are in such a partisan box that I'm surprised you're not labeling George Washington as a Democrat.This has nothing to do with political parties. Money doesn't care whether you have a D or an R next to your name. Money doesn't care whether or not you've spent the past eight years defending Bush. Money doesn't care whether or not you have an Obama t-shirt. All money cares about is what works, and the past 200 years have proven that what you're saying is fundamentally incorrect. I believe all I said is that there exists government spending that produces tangible and necessary benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 What does that have to do with government buying better windows from private companies and having them installed by American workers in order to save taxpayer money on heating costs? Do you even realize that the fundamental crux of every argument you're making is identical to what's supposed to make communism "work"? That somehow the government is better at allocating resources than individuals? And please, don't equate what I'm saying with the idiotic "uR a SOciAlIST!!1!" attacks from the Republican camp in the last election cycle. Those were moronic vote-bribing ploys. I'm talking about a basic understanding of economic efficiency, which has very little to do with taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Dude, you are in such a partisan box that I'm surprised you're not labeling George Washington as a Democrat.This has nothing to do with political parties. Money doesn't care whether you have a D or an R next to your name. Money doesn't care whether or not you've spent the past eight years defending Bush. Money doesn't care whether or not you have an Obama t-shirt. All money cares about is what works, and the past 200 years have proven that what you're saying is fundamentally incorrect. Beautiful. Post of the year so far in the tailgate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Are the American people foregoing new windows because of a down economy? Then the govt should be forced to tighten the belt as well. Turn the heat down and demand the employees dress warmer. Tax payer money saved and capital saved that can be spent on something that benefits the masses, not the few. How about a tax cut that would allow the American people buy those new windows and thus stimulate the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I wish the republicans were pushing for the elimination of the corporate income tax and a payroll tax cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I wish the republicans were pushing for the elimination of the corporate income tax and a payroll tax cut. I wish they hadn't sold their souls the last 8 years It is very very tough to argue good individualistic ideas because of what happened the past 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Do you even realize that the fundamental crux of every argument you're making is identical to what's supposed to make communism "work"? That somehow the government is better at allocating resources than individuals? How do you get that from me saying that there are cases where government investment is needed, beneficial, and lays down foundation for economic growth? It seems you are fundamentally mistaken about the fundamental crux of my every argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I believe all I said is that there exists government spending that produces tangible and necessary benefits. No, you've spent most of this thread arguing that "Republican" economics are bad, and therefore "Democrat" economics are good. In other words, if you throw a bunch of quadriplegics in a pit with a bunch of dyslexic retards, whichever group controls the pit is somehow justified in determining how everybody else should spend their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How about a tax cut that would allow the American people buy those new windows and thus stimulate the economy? Isn't that what we've been telling you?! Holy God, I'm gonna pull my hair out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How about a tax cut that would allow the American people buy those new windows and thus stimulate the economy?A tax cut? In bad times? Where is the govt getting the money to replace the money it is losing with the tax cut? You add it to the debt the next generation will have to deal with. And, the tax multiplier is low because people save a tax break because that is a fundamental sign the govt thinks there is a problem. If the govt is cutting me a check, something doesn't pass the smell test. To answer my own question, there are only two ways to increase revenue for the govt: raising taxes, and cutting spending. We know Obama promised to increase spending, while cutting taxes for "95% of Americans". What about that smell test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How get to that from me saying that there are cases where government investment is needed, beneficial, and lays down foundation for economic growth?It seems you are fundamentally mistaken about the fundamental crux of my every argument. Because you started this whole thread with the premise that the government is better at generating economic growth than individuals. Not once in all of history has this proven to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 How get to that from me saying that there are cases where government investment is needed, beneficial, and lays down foundation for economic growth?It seems you are fundamentally mistaken about the fundamental crux of my every argument. In that case, i think everyone is totally confused as to what point or points you are trying to make. It sounds very much like you are making the points that Hubbs has been shooting down for the past 45 minutes, non-stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Isn't that what we've been telling you?!Holy God, I'm gonna pull my hair out. My next point is that actually purchasing these windows by the government is the best way of making sure these windows are purchased. It seems that's what the "stimulus for the buck" thing is all about: http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6086963&postcount=33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I wish they hadn't sold their souls the last 8 years It is very very tough to argue good individualistic ideas because of what happened the past 8 years It's easy, since the last 8 years we had Corporatism and nothing regarding Individualism. The social aspect of George Bush was approaching fascism, the rest was a mixture of corporatism and militarism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 In that case, i think everyone is totally confused as to what point or points you are trying to make. It sounds very much like you are making the points that Hubbs has been shooting down for the past 45 minutes, non-stop. I submit that there is not a single sentence that I wrote that would point to conclusions you, Hubbs, and others made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I wish they hadn't sold their souls the last 8 years It is very very tough to argue good individualistic ideas because of what happened the past 8 years Did they sell soul or just use free market rhetoric to push for their corporate agenda? People who honestly believe in small government and free markets should oppose the republican party. The party is an albatross for any champion of individual liberty and free markets. At some point you get tired of being a useful idiot, SHF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 My next point is that actually purchasing these windows by the government is the best way of making sure these windows are purchased.It seems that's what the "stimulus for the buck" thing is all about: http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6086963&postcount=33 http://www.whereisthemoney.org/1.1trillion.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I submit that there is not a single sentence that I wrote that would point to conclusions you, Hubbs, and others made. Ok, everyone made the exact same conclusion, but it's everyone else's fault, you are still right. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 My next point is that actually purchasing these windows by the government is the best way of making sure these windows are purchased.It seems that's what the "stimulus for the buck" thing is all about: http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=6086963&postcount=33 But "making sure these windows are purchased" is an inefficient and ultimately negative goal in and of itself, because you're deciding what the people want. Cutting taxes versus spending on stimulus is, at its core, about the people deciding what to do with a certain amount of money versus the government deciding what to do with the same amount of money. The role of the government is not to generate economic growth, because, as the 20th century has shown us, that doesn't work. If you want economic growth, you let the people decide if they want windows, or trucks, or ice cream, or guitars, because it has been utterly proven that they'll make more efficient decisions than the government will. And efficiency, at the end of the day, creates more jobs than inefficient decisions made with good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Did they sell soul or just use free market rhetoric to push for their corporate agenda? People who honestly believe in small government and free markets should oppose the republican party. The party is an albatross for any champion of individual liberty and free markets. And here's where I couldn't agree with you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I submit that there is not a single sentence that I wrote that would point to conclusions you, Hubbs, and others made. You've been arguing that the government is better at "stimulating the economy" than individuals. This simply isn't true, and never has been. Hell, one look at where the "stimulus" money is actually going should tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.