Jim Zorn support thread (Merged)

[GrimReefa]

Zorn has to go. First of all, the team needs to completely tear down and rebuild the offense, and at 55, Zorn is too old to preside over a rebuilding project. Secondly, comparing Zorn to Gibbs I is ridiculous, because Gibbs I started the season at 0-5, and had the team playing great ball by the end of the season. Zorn started 4-1, and it's gone to crap ever since then. The team is playing way worse in week 14 than they were in week 5.

We need a young guy who has spent time as a coordinator in a successful system, and I think Arizona OC Todd Haley is the perfect fit.

BTW, Portis needs to be traded, too; he is also too old to be on a rebuilding team.

[SoCalSkins]

Like it or not, I think Zorn HAS to clean house and cut a lot of Gibbs' dead weight this off-season.

Last season was a playoff season and this one was Zorn's cherry-bust season. It was prudent to keep the players we had to see how much farther they could go. However, we know what we have now. If Zorn wants to build a foundation, his foundation, he'll have to cut ties with some of Gibbs' long-standing boys and bring in his own.

If Zorn doesn't do this, we'll have more of the same for the next few years.

First, Zorn is a lame duck. His tenure ends in 3 weeks barring a playoff berth.

Second, Vinny has final say on the roster not Zorn. That was handed to Vinny after his promotion this past offseason. Zorn is nothing but a yes man. That is how he landed the job, but it's the same reason he lost the team.

[Jimbo]

Snyder has no choice but to retain Zorn for another year. If he fires Zorn after what will likely be an 8-8 season, what "real" coach will take him seriously enough to ever want to come work for him. We can do without the Al Davis comparisons, thank you very much.

After this lost season, though, Danny has a right to demand improvement from Zorn. If we end up finishing last in the division and get an improved schedule next year, the heat will be on Zorn big time.

[FCREDSKINS]

I like Zorn, I think he is a high charactor guy and while we all put our foot in out mouths at times he seems like a promising young coach. C.P. is a great back and a true Redskin(which most of the ES posters wouldn't understand) but he is disgruntled. I really think Zorn was doing him a favor. We weren't gonna run the ball with any success Sunday night, just have our starting rb put on IR monday morning. Hope CP is regrouped and ready to get back on the winning track this week, move on CP

[Rypien1191]

I feel sorry for Zorn. Hes doing the best that he can with what he has - he is honest, he is hardworking, and hes trying to do what he thinks is best for the team. He walked into a hornets nest combo of possessed fans, flawed team, a new system, and a volatile organization.

I can understand Portis, and I can understand Zorn. Zorn thought Betts was better prepared because he practiced, and so Zorn thought it was better for the team to have Betts out there. Then the next day Portis goes off on the radio and everyone is calling for Zorn's head.

When we were 6-2 Zorn was coach of the year.

Now we've lost 4 times in 5 weeks because we've played BETTER teams who have BETTER personnel because their BETTER front offices had BETTER drafts and offseason moves? And thats Zorns fault for inheriting it?

Zorn is not Gibbs. No one will be. This is his first go around, and he doesnt have the experience of being able to rally a team just yet. He shouldn't have to be responsible for that - these guys are professionals making millions - its up to them to play up to their potential. And they may be, but for the last month, our team just havent been good enough.

Zorn deserves better and at least a second year.

[FCREDSKINS]

nice post, couldn't agree more

[TheRedfishCo]

I agree 100%. We must be behind Jim Zorn. I am not hating on Portis, but Zorn is our coach and he has already led us to a better record than what we got in the first season of Gibbs II (but yet no one talked about firing him, right?).

Zorn inherited a playoff team with all returning starters. He's no Tony Sparono, Mike Smith or Harbaugh.

[veteranskinsfan]

Look' date=' I don't love the guy's coaching. I'm not convinced he's right for us. I'm not convinced the WCO is right for Campbell. I don't think he's immune to criticism--maybe he's been too steadfast in his beliefs and failed to adapt.

[b']But firing Jim Zorn after one season, as many seem to think the direction we're headed, is absolutely ridiculous.

[/b]For one, it would support the ridiculous notion that Dan Snyder hired Zorn only because he knew he would fail, tolerate one year of mediocrity, and then go to Cowher. That's just a Bush-league way of operating if true, and I pray to God there was never truth to it. 7-6 is about what I would have expected from a first-year-coach. No more, no less. Gibbs really screwed us by leaving for the immediate future, in truth. Whether Zorn will be good or not in the long run is on him and his ability to adapt, but Gibbs leaving from the momentum we had going undoubtedly set us back a bit.

If we fire Zorn, we will be the laughingstock of the national media once again. Everyone will point and laugh at the brash, absurdly nonsensical decision-making of the Redskins. They'll point to the fans as wishy-washy loons who went from loving Zorn boundlessly to calling for his head in weeks. They'll label this an undesirable job for a long long time.

We, the fans, need to stand by Jim Zorn. One year is not long enough to judge a coach. It wasn't long enough to judge Gibbs his first year here (8-8). Or his first year back (6-10?). It wasn't long enough to judge Marty here (8-8). Coaches need a while to implement their schemes, make their stamp on the program, and put their own guys in place.

I know there's posts claiming that Zorn is being contradictory in what he wants the players to do and all, but here's the thing: PLAYERS ARE STUPID. Clinton Portis went to "The U." I love CP, generally, but listen to the guy talk. The simple fact is that he's not the smartest tool in the shed. Maybe he's not egotistical, maybe he's incorrectly interpreted as having a me-first-attitude, but the basic fact is that he's not completely sure of what's best for him.

Jim Zorn has spent years and years studying the game, after he played it himself. He learned from one of the best coaches of all time in one of the best coaching circles of all time. He always refused to kiss-ass, network, and do anything he wasn't comfortable with. He worked his way up by listening to those who knew more than him and asserting himself on things he knew more than them about. Jim Zorn, quite simply, knows more about offense than Clinton Portis, or any of the other players supposedly whining about his schemes.

People will say Zorn threw Portis under the bus. I don't think that's true at all. The media is a massive distortionist. The few pull-out quotes you read in the Post, ESPN, etc. are put there to GRAB YOUR ATTENTION. :2cents::gaintsuck:point2sky. They are not even close to the most fair. Zorn, from what I've heard, usually has no problem taking blame for himself. He generally says that it's on all of us--that they're in this together, that no one is immune from criticism, that it's on players and coaches alike. Just because you read a select portion where he blames the players doesn't mean he's not accepting responsibility. And even if he didn't, can you blame him? He's a first-year coach who's worked for years developing a scheme and the way he believes in doing things, and the players are the ones out on the field not getting it done. Have their been playcalling problems at times? Sure, but maybe the hours Portis spends at the Maryland-Michigan basketball game would be better spent in the video room studying defensive tendencies and blocking schemes. But the main thing is that Portis is the one who threw his coach under the bus really, not vice versa. I'm sure Zorn's door is always open and he's more than happy to discuss things with CP. CP, being the attention craver that he is, chose to go right to the media, and now we've got this problem on our hands.

Zorn was responsible and handled this like he should. He agreed with Portis on some things, and again pointed out what he disagreed on. He didn't lash out at CP like CP did at him, and he was always respectful and never condescending. The media just causes problems in all of sports, really. If I ever being an FO executive (my goal in life), I'm just going to instruct no one in the organization to talk to them. Let your play speak for itself. We'll write a few well-thought-out, open letters to fans each week from the coaches and the FO, but that's it. The media does nothing but start nonsense.

The fact is, no matter what you think of Portis as a football player, coming out and criticizing your coach like that out in the open is completely unacceptable. Coach>>>player. Just the way it goes. If you have a problem, tell Vinny or something. Don't go whining behind a microphone.

Players, for the most part, are poor self-motivators and don't truly enjoy the absurd amount of hard work required at such a level. The Giants players, pre-SB, absolutely hated Coughlin. They hated the amount of work he made them put in. They saw absolutely no reason they had to run a lap when they came ten minutes early to a meeting. Coughlin was a disciplinarian though, kept preaching what he believed in, was unfaltering in his strict ways, and as much as the Giants fans and media and players revolted against him, the FO recognized that he is an excellent coach and gave him space to see what he could do with the organization.

Is Zorn Coughlin? Probably not. But can he be a damn good coach? Absolutely. Gibbs gave his approval of Zorn fully. He won his first game in Dallas. Earlier in the season, when our offense was moving the ball, he showed great innovativeness in designing plays and thinking outside the box. He went for the throat, had a burning desire to win, and wanted to beat the **** out of the other guys--the truly best trait of any player or coach in any sport.

Oftentimes, the most successful coaches are the least popular. Maybe Zorn went about some things the wrong way in his first year. Maybe he didn't make sure he had the support of everybody before moving forward. Maybe he was a poor communicator. Certainly, his gameplanning has had some issues, but that is absolutely to be expected in a first year. It is absolutely mindless to fire a guy without at least letting him see a second season with his three passcatching picks in the second round, with Jason Campbell, with his WCO, with his tough offseason regiment.

Look at the Ravens. All season long they've heard whispers that their best players weren't behind Harbrough. McGahee, the prima donna RB (although he truly sucks, unlike Portis who is a great player), Heap, Suggs, even Reed. But Harbrough kept to what he believed in, and although he was quite unpopular with a good deal of the players, the young QB believed in him, the defense rallied for him, and the veterans who can play came out and played, and some of the youngsters hopped on too. That's what we're going for here. It's unfortunate the Ravens seem to have hit that before us, but let's remember that we play in the NFC East--they've had a bit easier run. No doubt they're probably better than us, as Sunday proved, but I don't think, at full strength, we're not too far behind. Both Harbrough and Zorn, I think, are up-and-coming great minds. Harbrough has now ensured he'll be around for quite some time.

Fans, we need to stick up for Zorn and ensure he gets the same chance. Regardless of what you think of him, the fact is that you just don't know. You don't know by listening to the media, you don't know by listening to the players, you don't even know by listening to him because he's a smart guy and not disclosing even a tenth of everything going on. Let's be simply satisfied with our 7-10 wins this year, and demand excellence next year and every year that follows.

Jim Zorn will not and cannot be fired after one season as Head Coach of the Washington Redskins.

Thanks for reading my :2cents:.

Good post. I agree with you that we should keep Zorn. Portis should talk with Zorn one on one and not through the local or national media. Portis is a good player but he cannot put himself ahead of the team itself. We need Portis to do well these next 3 games but we should play Bettis when Coach Z believes it is in the team's best interest to do so each game.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

First, Zorn is a lame duck. His tenure ends in 3 weeks barring a playoff berth.

I'll take that bet, thank you.

[SoCalSkins]

I'll take that bet, thank you.

What do you want to bet? I am not making a sig bet.

[Spitfire71]

You see, it's people like you that keep me around here. It's hard being a young guy that tries to stand up and make a rational argument around some of the older fans that remember the Super Bowl runs of the late '80s-early '90s because the older fans don't take you seriously and some of them even assume that, because you're young, you know nothing. You're probably going to take a lot of heat from some of the drama queens on this forum, but stand your ground and keep doing what you're doing.

HAIL.

[corrupt3d]

What do you want to bet? I am not making a sig bet.

I'll take a sig bet and when you lose, I'll make sure your current sig is incorporated into your new one, as big as it is now and not in any negative light.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

SoCal,

My PM feature is busted for some reason so...

First time forum bet here.

1) You may change my sig to whatever you want.

2) You may start a thread showing how little I know and how wise you are.

3) Have me NNT'd.

4) If you have a better suggestion, propose.:applause:

I don't want anything from you unless you insist.

[redman]

Thanks for backing me up there in my absense... It's called reading between the lines and taking everything into consideration. Some of these guys need to try that.:2cents:

This is what's so funny to me. You get a small picture issue - Portis' dissatissfaction - right, and then you decide to play "I told you so" in a thread about whether Zorn should be retained.

Is it your position that the only, or even most important criteria for retaining Zorn as head coach is Portis' attitude? If so, your outlook is as limited as I thought it was.

More likely is that you're in such a hurry to show off your "insider info" that you can't contain yourself even to threads where a given piece of information is relevant.

Run along, little boy, and look for "backup" elsewhere.

[jrfriedm]

Only thing that I have to say to Zorn is:

:ciao:

[heatman28]

I am behind Zorn all the way! Finally a coach who openly admits what and where our problems lie instead of covering it up for the media and the fans sake. Zorn was handed this team without any time to really address any of the problems left from Gibbs, Bugle, Williams and Cerato! Now after this season, hopefully we get most (if not all) of these problems corrected and build from there. Zorn has done a great job for a first time/year coach!

[herb mul-key]

Go Z- Man!

[Silencer6091]

I'm all for Zorn...at least for another year.

[jmyers75]

I'm behind Coach Z 100%! There is a heirarchy here, and CP needs to understand that. With the money he gets paid, if Coach tells him to stand on his head for 60 minutes on Sunday, he best do it.

CP showed his true colors, first with the O-Line (although less blatant) and now with Coach Zorn.

I think we have a great, young HC here; and the powers that be hopefully won't let this prima-donna influence them.

[Skinz4Life12]

give him another year. he needs to overcome this adversity and unite the team. if he can't do that after another year, then we will see

[Dirk McGirk]

I hate to see our fan base so easily divided over something like this where it has to be one or the other. I like Zorn, he is a rookie coach who im sure deserves plenty of "blame" for how things are going. We all knew we werent hiring Parcells or Belechik here, it takes time. Its not like we got rid of Portis when he came here from Denver and struggled. We MUST keep Zorn. At some point we need to stop F-ing around and build a team. The fans need to shutup for a year, the media needs to shutup for a year and give it some time. People are reacting like we were supposed to go all the way this year and we are in a crisis mode here. Keep Zorn, and honestly, I like portis as a player, he works hard and has a lot of talent, and thats why we could maybe get a couple of decent draft picks now comming off a great year. I say trade portis for picks because its the right business decision for the team. Get rid of Jason Taylor too, anyway you can that might get us some cap room. I would seriously be happy to trade him to the raiders for a piece if gum if they will take his contract with him

[cober]

I am behind Zorn because he has made the tough decisions this season

Jansen under performing Vet. Easy move would been to let him coast. If Heyer haded been injured then Jansen would not gotten 2nd chance.

At worst it fired up rest the line. And made them realise they need to perform to keep there place.

Benching Portis was right move. Betts got the job done in 2nd half. He turned some short passes into really good Gaines. So it was proven to be right choice.

2nd point is Portis is now back to decent health. So he might be able to finish a game. Everyone was calling for him to be forced to take a game off. Yet Zorn benchs him vs a defence which was smashing him in the run game.

My opinion his moves have been sound.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

I'm behind Zorn.

Go Skins!

[skinsaddict]

i'm even more behind zorn today than i was yesterday

:notworthy:

[Gart Monk]

I support Jim Zorn and Sonic burgers.