Jim Zorn support thread (Merged)

[Redskins Fan in Richmond]

excuse my ignorance, but were you watching the same games? we were dropping passes, blowing coverage, and not blocking and overall, not getting it done.

I get your point. It just seems like everyone is trying to live up to their share of the blame except JZ. Players failing to execute this far into the season or not knowing the playbook is a direct reflection of the coaching staff as well as the individual player.

[“Misdirection”]

Before the ravens game I would have agreed with you...but after seeing him put a backup center at strong side tackle...I just don't know anymore...not only that but geisinger is now hurt because of it.

Just a really really REALLY dumb move.

He was the only other O-lineman active at the game. Which is most likely Buges doing because he knows who he wants in the games. I wouldn't call that Zorn's fault.

We tried to do with what we had available.

However, not helping the backup center at Tackle was not a smart move. He should have had a chip or a double on every play he was in there, but he didn't. That is Zorn and Smith's doing.

Be angry for the right reasons.

[TheSkins2006]

He was the only other O-lineman active at the game. Which is most likely Buges doing because he knows who he wants in the games. I wouldn't call that Zorn's fault.

We tried to do with what we had available.

However, not helping the backup center at Tackle was not a smart move. He should have had a chip or a double on every play he was in there, but he didn't. That is Zorn and Smith's doing.

Be angry for the right reasons.

To be honest we don't know whose decision it was to put him in there. He might have been our last active o-linemen but if so why don't we adjust the o-line? Why put him on the STRONG SIDE instead of the weakside and move heyer over to that side in the first place? Stupid moves on all the coaches parts, and stupids plays overall.

[glsjr2277]

I agree. After following the team for 40 years I've pretty much seen it all.

We got into the playoffs last year on sheer grit and the determination of JG to overcome tremendous adversity. The coaching hire did start out a little squirrely but DS finally thought outside the box. Fassel would have been a disaster. Zorn has excellent knowledge of the game,presence on the sideline, and solid teaching skills. He's a competitor. His hire was to see if JC has it or not. Big question. Everyone needs to keep it in perspective. Other Teams have great turnarounds and get into the Playoffs, we for some reason, can't consistently get to where we need to be. A lot of talent, not a lot of results. First year coaches historically are losers, this year is the exception with the Ravens, Atlanta, and Miami. I think Zorn will work out. CP can play the matinee idol. His timing and choice of venue. Not good. Zorns to smart to take the bait. He'll turn a negative into a positive, while subtlety making a point. He'll scratch CP behind the ears and CP will be fired up for Cincy. It's called coaching.

[1972FAN]

I understand CP's frustration, But absolutely disagree throwing the coach under the bus. You feel that way go into his office and let him know. DOn't take the cheap shot way and on the radio and call the coach a idiot, (He's a genius, sarcastic) Negative ways, selfish move.

[Monkfan63]

Never been a big Portis fan myself. The guy is a good football player. But he is a prima donna. I have tired of his act.

[McD5]

I support Zorn 100%.

It is the guy's first year coaching.....how much did you really expect?

I just read someone in another thread state that his plays are too predictable, and his clock management sucks.

Guess what? Gibbs' 2 plays were nauseatingly predictable, and he was the worst in the league at clock management. And he is a hof'r.

How good of a driver were you the first year you had a driver's license?

How good were you the first year on the job?

Are you improved now?

If anyone is to blame.....it continues to be Danny and Vinny.....and on this issue too.

They ran the embarrassing interview process. They picked his coordinators first--making him look weak in the player's eyes.

They told him that JC was the quarterback....even before he saw JC practice one time.

The bufffoons above him deserve 100% of the blame.

Did you really expect him to work miracles with our pathetic o and d lines?

:2cents:

[texasthunder]

I liked Zorn. Until he started throwing his players under the bus. He may not directly call them out (other than the recent portis incident) but i have yet to hear him take blame for anything in the game. Its always "the line didnt block", "we didnt catch the ball", "couldnt convert on 3rd down" ...that kinda garbage wears on the players and dosent settle well.

WOW- Portis can call out the OL in public and most everybody thinks its great.

Coach Zorn opens up to the media, most everybody thins its great.

But now that there is controversy, people want to blow it up in the coaches face.

He's a first year head coach who has exceeded most everybodys expectations. He deserves the benefit of any doubt.

[WizSkinsO's]

Look, I don't love the guy's coaching. I'm not convinced he's right for us. I'm not convinced the WCO is right for Campbell. I don't think he's immune to criticism--maybe he's been too steadfast in his beliefs and failed to adapt.

But firing Jim Zorn after one season, as many seem to think the direction we're headed, is absolutely ridiculous.

For one, it would support the ridiculous notion that Dan Snyder hired Zorn only because he knew he would fail, tolerate one year of mediocrity, and then go to Cowher. That's just a Bush-league way of operating if true, and I pray to God there was never truth to it. 7-6 is about what I would have expected from a first-year-coach. No more, no less. Gibbs really screwed us by leaving for the immediate future, in truth. Whether Zorn will be good or not in the long run is on him and his ability to adapt, but Gibbs leaving from the momentum we had going undoubtedly set us back a bit.

If we fire Zorn, we will be the laughingstock of the national media once again. Everyone will point and laugh at the brash, absurdly nonsensical decision-making of the Redskins. They'll point to the fans as wishy-washy loons who went from loving Zorn boundlessly to calling for his head in weeks. They'll label this an undesirable job for a long long time.

We, the fans, need to stand by Jim Zorn. One year is not long enough to judge a coach. It wasn't long enough to judge Gibbs his first year here (8-8). Or his first year back (6-10?). It wasn't long enough to judge Marty here (8-8). Coaches need a while to implement their schemes, make their stamp on the program, and put their own guys in place.

I know there's posts claiming that Zorn is being contradictory in what he wants the players to do and all, but here's the thing: PLAYERS ARE STUPID. Clinton Portis went to "The U." I love CP, generally, but listen to the guy talk. The simple fact is that he's not the smartest tool in the shed. Maybe he's not egotistical, maybe he's incorrectly interpreted as having a me-first-attitude, but the basic fact is that he's not completely sure of what's best for him.

Jim Zorn has spent years and years studying the game, after he played it himself. He learned from one of the best coaches of all time in one of the best coaching circles of all time. He always refused to kiss-ass, network, and do anything he wasn't comfortable with. He worked his way up by listening to those who knew more than him and asserting himself on things he knew more than them about. Jim Zorn, quite simply, knows more about offense than Clinton Portis, or any of the other players supposedly whining about his schemes.

People will say Zorn threw Portis under the bus. I don't think that's true at all. The media is a massive distortionist. The few pull-out quotes you read in the Post, ESPN, etc. are put there to GRAB YOUR ATTENTION. :2cents::gaintsuck:point2sky. They are not even close to the most fair. Zorn, from what I've heard, usually has no problem taking blame for himself. He generally says that it's on all of us--that they're in this together, that no one is immune from criticism, that it's on players and coaches alike. Just because you read a select portion where he blames the players doesn't mean he's not accepting responsibility. And even if he didn't, can you blame him? He's a first-year coach who's worked for years developing a scheme and the way he believes in doing things, and the players are the ones out on the field not getting it done. Have their been playcalling problems at times? Sure, but maybe the hours Portis spends at the Maryland-Michigan basketball game would be better spent in the video room studying defensive tendencies and blocking schemes. But the main thing is that Portis is the one who threw his coach under the bus really, not vice versa. I'm sure Zorn's door is always open and he's more than happy to discuss things with CP. CP, being the attention craver that he is, chose to go right to the media, and now we've got this problem on our hands.

Zorn was responsible and handled this like he should. He agreed with Portis on some things, and again pointed out what he disagreed on. He didn't lash out at CP like CP did at him, and he was always respectful and never condescending. The media just causes problems in all of sports, really. If I ever being an FO executive (my goal in life), I'm just going to instruct no one in the organization to talk to them. Let your play speak for itself. We'll write a few well-thought-out, open letters to fans each week from the coaches and the FO, but that's it. The media does nothing but start nonsense.

The fact is, no matter what you think of Portis as a football player, coming out and criticizing your coach like that out in the open is completely unacceptable. Coach>>>player. Just the way it goes. If you have a problem, tell Vinny or something. Don't go whining behind a microphone.

Players, for the most part, are poor self-motivators and don't truly enjoy the absurd amount of hard work required at such a level. The Giants players, pre-SB, absolutely hated Coughlin. They hated the amount of work he made them put in. They saw absolutely no reason they had to run a lap when they came ten minutes early to a meeting. Coughlin was a disciplinarian though, kept preaching what he believed in, was unfaltering in his strict ways, and as much as the Giants fans and media and players revolted against him, the FO recognized that he is an excellent coach and gave him space to see what he could do with the organization.

Is Zorn Coughlin? Probably not. But can he be a damn good coach? Absolutely. Gibbs gave his approval of Zorn fully. He won his first game in Dallas. Earlier in the season, when our offense was moving the ball, he showed great innovativeness in designing plays and thinking outside the box. He went for the throat, had a burning desire to win, and wanted to beat the **** out of the other guys--the truly best trait of any player or coach in any sport.

Oftentimes, the most successful coaches are the least popular. Maybe Zorn went about some things the wrong way in his first year. Maybe he didn't make sure he had the support of everybody before moving forward. Maybe he was a poor communicator. Certainly, his gameplanning has had some issues, but that is absolutely to be expected in a first year. It is absolutely mindless to fire a guy without at least letting him see a second season with his three passcatching picks in the second round, with Jason Campbell, with his WCO, with his tough offseason regiment.

Look at the Ravens. All season long they've heard whispers that their best players weren't behind Harbrough. McGahee, the prima donna RB (although he truly sucks, unlike Portis who is a great player), Heap, Suggs, even Reed. But Harbrough kept to what he believed in, and although he was quite unpopular with a good deal of the players, the young QB believed in him, the defense rallied for him, and the veterans who can play came out and played, and some of the youngsters hopped on too. That's what we're going for here. It's unfortunate the Ravens seem to have hit that before us, but let's remember that we play in the NFC East--they've had a bit easier run. No doubt they're probably better than us, as Sunday proved, but I don't think, at full strength, we're not too far behind. Both Harbrough and Zorn, I think, are up-and-coming great minds. Harbrough has now ensured he'll be around for quite some time.

Fans, we need to stick up for Zorn and ensure he gets the same chance. Regardless of what you think of him, the fact is that you just don't know. You don't know by listening to the media, you don't know by listening to the players, you don't even know by listening to him because he's a smart guy and not disclosing even a tenth of everything going on. Let's be simply satisfied with our 7-10 wins this year, and demand excellence next year and every year that follows.

Jim Zorn will not and cannot be fired after one season as Head Coach of the Washington Redskins.

Thanks for reading my :2cents:.

[CRobi21]

I agree with you Wiz. Very well put. I'm hoping to God that CP and Zorn sit down and talk about this. And that Zorn learns from CP, and vice versa. My hopes is that by the end of the season, Zorn will be made into a better Head Coach, and CP into a better player and communicator.

And for goodness sakes they start to look at some lineman in the draft. Hehe.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

I would like Zorn to have at least three years. Anything less would be a shame and would put a stain on this franchise. No legitimate coach would want a job here if we fired Zorn before that.

[Loyal2Washington]

Oh yeah I'm sure the cool level headed Dan Snyder will do just that. I'll beat dollars to doughnuts the feelers for certain people(Cowher) are already out.

[StJoe4Life]

I AGREE! This is on the whole team - the WHOLE TEAM! Very well put!

BTW: There is no way you are only 17. Rational thought coming from a "kid"? Well I never! (I'm only 21)

[krsone]

what does it matter? if snyder gonna get rid of him, he will. he aint gonna listen to us. and as for zorn, he has been annoying how he calls out players and balmes everything on everybody except himself. everytime u listen to his post game interviews, he seems to have answers for everything that went wrong during the game but doesnt do jack about it the following week calling same plays and so on. Gibbs is predictable? please!

not only the predictable play calls but man, he is rubbing on me the wrong way for some reason., is it me or this guy comes off as some peace loving hippy when i hear him talk? i know, i know. that has nothing to do with football but...

[Loyal2Washington]

No legitimate coach would want a job here if we fired Zorn before that.

Isn't that what people where saying about the Skins after Shotty got canned, in fact didn't Shotty, on ESPN, tell Snyder to not waste his quarter before taking the job a couple months later? Money talks my man, money talks.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Some of us never stopped.

Hail.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

Isn't that what people where saying about the Skins after Shotty got canned, in fact didn't Shotty, on ESPN, tell Snyder to not waste his quarter before taking the job a couple months later? Money talks my man, money talks.

Apparently not, hence the last coaching search.

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

Snyder has grown a bit, he won't get rid of Zorn so quickly. I'll bet a steak dinner on it.

[argentina_redskins]

I agree 100%. We must be behind Jim Zorn. I am not hating on Portis, but Zorn is our coach and he has already led us to a better record than what we got in the first season of Gibbs II (but yet no one talked about firing him, right?).

[dustinwhylee]

Snyder has grown a bit, he won't get rid of Zorn so quickly. I'll bet a steak dinner on it.

Well, he and Vinny picked Zorn before they picked a HC. I'm pretty sure the two like Zorn quite a bit.

[More Complete]

If Snyder gets rid of Zorn he will essentially be admitting that he has no clue what the hell he is doing.

[SirClintonPortis]

Well said. It's not all Zorn's fault that this skid has occured. The ones responsible for the current state of the trenches is the FO because they didn't bother to draft players who can protect the 'Skins QB and rush the opp. QB. If there was a pass rush, the D would be a monster. If there was protection, Campbell would be having a much smoother transition into the WCO and it would help the execution of plays by a far degree. Then there is Jansen...

[WizSkinsO's]

Well, he and Vinny picked Zorn before they picked a HC. I'm pretty sure the two like Zorn quite a bit.

I think you're right, but let's not forget that they are people and, stupidly, at least partially influenced by what we think. I honestly think, as do many on here, Fassel would have been our coach if not for the outrage started on these boards. So, we've just got to remember as fans to remain level-headed. Call into the talk-shows and say what CP said was wrong. Don't blindly support the anti-Zorn nonsense posters like that Lavar person are spewing--players, remember, are complete idiots. In all honesty, even them strongly disliking Zorn only makes me like Zorn more. The players don't know what's best for them, most of the time. Seriously. Look at the Giants. I could give two ****s that Fred Davis is upset about his playing time. Don't oversleep for your first practice. I could give two ****s about CP's confusion over his blocking scheme. Suck it up, study more, and practice once in a while--you're just uncomfortable, you're not going to get more hurt. I trust Jim Zorn, and so should you, at least for now.

[ballin86]

If we fire Zorn' date=' we will be the laughingstock of the national media once again. Everyone will point and laugh at the brash, absurdly nonsensical decision-making of the Redskins. They'll point to the fans as wishy-washy loons who went from loving Zorn boundlessly to calling for his head in weeks. They'll label this an undesirable job for a long long time.

[/quote']

oakland won that title already, sorry

[BuddyLeeGhostHunter]

Well, he and Vinny picked Zorn before they picked a HC. I'm pretty sure the two like Zorn quite a bit.

Like it or not, I think Zorn HAS to clean house and cut a lot of Gibbs' dead weight this off-season.

Last season was a playoff season and this one was Zorn's cherry-bust season. It was prudent to keep the players we had to see how much farther they could go. However, we know what we have now. If Zorn wants to build a foundation, his foundation, he'll have to cut ties with some of Gibbs' long-standing boys and bring in his own.

If Zorn doesn't do this, we'll have more of the same for the next few years.