Warhead36 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That explains why Gibbs resigned. He wanted to start Collins this year, or at least have an open competition. Snyder wants to see his investment in his boy Campbell pay off so Gibbs goes. As a result Snyder can't find anyone to be his head coach because no respectable coach thought highly enough of Campbell to stake his job to him except Zorn who decided coaching this trainwreck was better than teaching the slip and slide in Seattle for another year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Still, I think no extension this offseason will clearly show that the organization is of the mind that Campbell is not the guy, and that it will take a significant about-face for that to change.If they were encouraged by his development, they would have offered an extension by now. You don't let encouraging QB prospects get to a lame duck season. The story has always been that they were going to talk about an extension in the offseason. While there were rumors that maybe they would start negotiations early, that probably went south as the team has gone south. I still think they will talk in the offseason about an extension, pending what Zorn thinks of Campbell's overall progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That explains why Gibbs resigned. He wanted to start Collins this year, or at least have an open competition. Snyder wants to see his investment in his boy Campbell pay off so Gibbs goes. As a result Snyder can't find anyone to be his head coach because no respectable coach thought highly enough of Campbell to stake his job to him except Zorn who decided coaching this trainwreck was better than teaching the slip and slide in Seattle for another year... That's really not what LavarLeap56 said at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That explains why Gibbs resigned. He wanted to start Collins this year, or at least have an open competition. :doh::doh::doh: Use Occam's Razor. It will keep you from making stupid statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That's really not what LavarLeap56 said at all. I didn't bother reading 5 pages of mostly...you know what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I didn't bother reading 5 pages of mostly...you know what. At least read LavarLeap56's posts. His information is always reliable. He has a great history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 :doh::doh::doh:Use Occam's Razor. It will keep you from making stupid statements. Why is it stupid? It makes sense. Gibbs wanted to go with the vet who played great down the stretch and led us to the playoffs. Snyder wanted to see HIS BOY play and wanted a coach who would develop HIS BOY. Push came to shove and Gibbs decided it wasn't worth it anymore. Why do you think it was so hard for us to find a coach? Nobody wanted to "coach up" Campbell because they had enough evidence to know he'd never be a good enough QB in this league. Thats why we had to resort to our last option Zorn who wasn't even hired to be the coach at first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidSnake84 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As stupid as it sounds, that's probably the truth! Coach Zorn was the only guy who would agree to keep JC as starter no matter how much he sucked. And i'm not even joking. It should say enough on the subject that Joe Gibbs wanted to bench campbell, and have a open competition for the job this year. Joe Gibbs, in all his knowledge and greatness, had second thoughts on Campbell. And so did any other respectable Head Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As stupid as it sounds, that's probably the truth! Coach Zorn was the only guy who would agree to keep JC as starter no matter how much he sucked. And i'm not even joking. It should say enough on the subject that Joe Gibbs wanted to bench campbell, and have a open competition for the job this year. Joe Gibbs, in all his knowledge and greatness, had second thoughts on Campbell. And so did any other respectable Head Coach. Yes, but Gibbs didn't resign because Snyder told him to play Campbell. It was Gibb's decision to leave, and Danny was blindsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Yes, but Gibbs didn't resign because Snyder told him to play Campbell. It was Gibb's decision to leave, and Danny was blindsided. And how do we know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 My concern is not that Snyder wanted to find out what he had in his young qb. It makes sense.My concern is that so many coaches who either saw Campbell every day in practice or watched him on film told Vinny and Dan they didn't think he was the guy. I mean, Jim Fassel wanted an open competition. Fassel! That guy would do anything for a NFL gig. I hope they were all wrong and JC steps it up. Who are these so many coaches? Fassel and who else? I've heard nothing but praise for Campbell from people like Jaws, Theismann, and other respected analysts when they have evaluated tape of Campbell. I find it hard to believe that there were "many" coaches who felt this way - we don't even know if the Fassel story is entirely true. Riggins has been known to get things wrong in the past. Why is it stupid? It makes sense. Gibbs wanted to go with the vet who played great down the stretch and led us to the playoffs. Snyder wanted to see HIS BOY play and wanted a coach who would develop HIS BOY. Push came to shove and Gibbs decided it wasn't worth it anymore.Why do you think it was so hard for us to find a coach? Nobody wanted to "coach up" Campbell because they had enough evidence to know he'd never be a good enough QB in this league. Thats why we had to resort to our last option Zorn who wasn't even hired to be the coach at first... Honest question: Do you really think Snyder would have more loyalty towards Jason Campbell as opposed to Joe Gibbs? Joe Gibbs selected Campbell - there's no evidence to suggest that Snyder has some love affair with Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Why is it stupid? It makes sense. Gibbs wanted to go with the vet who played great down the stretch and led us to the playoffs. Snyder wanted to see HIS BOY play and wanted a coach who would develop HIS BOY. Push came to shove and Gibbs decided it wasn't worth it anymore.Why do you think it was so hard for us to find a coach? Nobody wanted to "coach up" Campbell because they had enough evidence to know he'd never be a good enough QB in this league. Thats why we had to resort to our last option Zorn who wasn't even hired to be the coach at first... Snyder would have put in whoever Gibbs wanted. In no way did Snyder want Gibbs to leave, as evidenced by their lack of preparation for his departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 And how do we know this? We read: http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=5921425&postcount=28 Gibbs did not criticize players in the media and Was leaning towards going with Collins after 2 years of Saunders being in his ear that Collins could run The Saunders offense. Gibbs and Saunders tried to run a combination of there offenses with Campbell starting but it wasn't working. The death of Sean Taylor and he buffalo game with the two timeouts obviously stunned Gibbs and he didn't want to be a hindrance to the players on the team as they had there mind set to honor Sean by winning games and Collins was the best choice to open up the offense and try and get that done. Essentially after the timeout fiasco Gibbs took on the role of maintaining the teams emotional well being vs dictating x's and o's and let go off the offense to Saunders and look what happen. Gibbs left because of the realization that maybe he couldn't make all the right decisions anymore and was holding the team back in some regards, and the realization that his grandson wasn't guaranteed tomorrow with his disease and he turned the keys over and went along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 We read: http://extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=5921425&postcount=28 No offense to Lavarleap56, but does anyone truly know the reasons for Gibbs leaving, other than Gibbs himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Honest question: Do you really think Snyder would have more loyalty towards Jason Campbell as opposed to Joe Gibbs? Joe Gibbs selected Campbell - there's no evidence to suggest that Snyder has some love affair with Campbell. There is no doubt that Gibbs could coach as long as he wanted on his terms for Dan. After he retired, the loyalty was not the same with Saunders and GW. Vinny probably felt that JC in a WCO with the addition of Ocho Cinco would set the stage for long term success. So you bring in an OC who you think can teach the QB then go after a defensive guy like Spagnolo to ease the loss of GW. When that doesn't pan out, you make the OC the head coach and give him a year. If he fails, he is a nobody to begin with, and you have your answer as to what you have at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Okay, so who's decision was it to essentially spend a first, second, and a third rounder on Jason Campbell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 There is no doubt that Gibbs could coach as long as he wanted on his terms for Dan.After he retired, the loyalty was not the same with Saunders and GW. Vinny probably felt that JC in a WCO with the addition of Ocho Cinco would set the stage for long term success. So you bring in an OC who you think can teach the QB then go after a defensive guy like Spagnolo to ease the loss of GW. When that doesn't pan out, you make the OC the head coach and give him a year. If he fails, he is a nobody to begin with, and you have your answer as to what you have at QB. Yes, this is correct - so you basically just proved the point I was making. The poster I was responding to was saying that Gibbs didn't come back because Snyder wanted Campbell to start - basically saying Campbell was the reason Gibbs retired. I'm sure even a seasoned Campbell-basher like yourself would disagree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 There is no doubt that Gibbs could coach as long as he wanted on his terms for Dan.After he retired, the loyalty was not the same with Saunders and GW. Vinny probably felt that JC in a WCO with the addition of Ocho Cinco would set the stage for long term success. So you bring in an OC who you think can teach the QB then go after a defensive guy like Spagnolo to ease the loss of GW. When that doesn't pan out, you make the OC the head coach and give him a year. If he fails, he is a nobody to begin with, and you have your answer as to what you have at QB. Well, Vinny went with the WCO because that's what he knows the best, considering his days in SF. It wasn't a shocker that he decided to go that direction. Now, whether or not that was best for Campbell is another discussion. I honestly think they went with Zorn because he was the most impressive candidate to them, not to mention that he was willing to work with Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Okay, so who's decision was it to essentially spend a first, second, and a third rounder on Jason Campbell... Mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Okay, so who's decision was it to essentially spend a first, second, and a third rounder on Jason Campbell... Who spent a first, second and a third on Campbell? Not us. We traded a first, third and a future 4th for Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Well, Vinny went with the WCO because that's what he knows the best, considering his days in SF. It wasn't a shocker that he decided to go that direction. Now, whether or not that was best for Campbell is another discussion.I honestly think they went with Zorn because he was the most impressive candidate to them, not to mention that he was willing to work with Campbell. Keep believing that. No one wanted to be forced to have their starting QB picked for them, their OC in place before they were hired or work for an organization where the top 2 handpicked coordinators of the retiring HOF coach were not retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Who spent a first, second and a third on Campbell? Not us. We traded a first, third and a future 4th for Campbell. Okay, so who's idea was it to essentially spend a first, third, and a 4th on Campbell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianm23 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 It was lunacy not to have an open competition.Also lunacy for Zorn to announce JC as the starter before even seeing him practice. And, lunacy that Dan or Vinny could dictate that. :doh: That's why I said I believe Zorn didn't have a decision on who to start at QB before announcing this. How can you as a coach announce your starting QB on your team if you haven't even reviewed them? (minus the fact it would be somebody like Manning, Brees, Brady, etc..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derskinsfan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Some of this stuff makes sense and some of it really doesn't. First, if Snyder really didn't want anyone to play QB other than Campbell, then why did we resign Collins even after Gibbs retired? Second, while I buy that Snyder wanted to see what we had in Campbell before resigning him to a big contract, I don't think he would be telling Zorn at this point in the season to stick with Campbell no matter what, even if it meant losing games and scoring no points. That doesn't make any sense. What good would come of that? I do believe that Zorn wants to see Campbell work out and might be hesitant to hurt his confidence by benching him, especially if he believes that the offense has problems beyond just the play of the QB. (Remember, Zorn was a QB himself and probably has first-hand feelings about what being benched can do to a young QB.) History aside, the big question to me is how is this team going to improve? I don't question that Campbell would be better with much better protection and more experience. But what are the chances that our offensive line is going to get so much better so quickly that we can afford Campbell the time to succeed? And shouldn't a franchise QB be able to make the team around him better even when circumstances are less than ideal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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