PTI just did a part about JC

[krsone]

So the fact Jansen gets pushed back into JC, or Rabach gets whipped by the Dallas NT is because JC called the wrong scheme :thumbsup:

ive said that jansen gets pushed backwards like he is on rollerskates and i have acknowledge that oline could be better too but what gets me is the fact taht u really seem to believe that jansen get pushed around in every single play or our other olinemen gets abused every single play.

now use a little common sense, if JC keeps calling the wrong scheme... you think he would still being do it in week 13 :rotflmao:

common sense is not being able to comprehend that Oline doesnt get abused every single play just like JC cant side step, step up, avoid rush, read defense in every single play.... common sense is also being able to understand that what JC cant or isnt good at weighs more on the team than what OLINE is not able to do.

so "u" are one of those ignore facts, and the obvious because it doesn't jive with the drivel you are spewing. Sorry but its a proven fact that QB's who struggle with recognizing defenses turn the ball over at a higher rate, and have a low completion rate, JC is #1 in int ratio, and top 10 in comp.%..... just because many of his completions haven't gone for TD's doesn't mean he's not completing them because of this BS

i gave u facts but like in other cases, facts can be deceptive. like against the giants. by the middle of the 4th qt, game was over and JC got cheap yards and so on. ive even stated that day about how fanboys will use the stats to support JC. and guess what, u fell right in to the trap. LOL but what u have failed to realize is the facts that i have given you which i belive is more important your useless 4 INTs in 12 games because u simply dont understand that not all INTs equal a TD or a FG. top 10 comp which are all short ding and dunks or useless screens. i meanwhen u pass short dings and dunks and passing to wide open recivers, your comp% is surely gonna be high. talk about common sense. LOL but the fact that his total yards per game is mediocre is what gets me. can this guy throw for more than 300 yards in consecutive games?

Scoring :doh:... you do understand that we a running, grind it out, control the clock offense... that means lower scoring games... like Tennessee who is ranked 19th in scoring, and Carolina who was ranked below us until this week. You do know, in almost every game were a team scores 30+ points there was a defensive TD and/or a ST TD, sometimes more than one. We have had one ST TD, ZERO defensive TDs... I guess that's because JC can't read defenses

u brag about his COMP% and now emphasize running game. grind out, control the clock offense... WCO? are u little confused there? man, u are all over the place..... but why are we talking about this? we are talking about JC.

Also how many TD's have we had called back? how many missed FGs, how many games we ran out the Clock for most of the 4th QTR instead scoring, to keep from giving the ball back? How many times a reception gets us inside the 10but the receiver is stop short of the goal line

how many TDs? LOL . i assure you, even with the TDs called back, we still would be at the bottom tier of teams scoring TDs.... missed FGs? again we are talking about JC. JC thread. if u want u can go baclk to sunday threads. i posted that suisham is awful and missed crucial FG 3 weeks in a roll.

Doc Walker?? :rotflmao: I like Doc ad he knows football, especially blocking, but he also is a crowd rouser, and says stuff people wants to her, instead of using common sense. He was a TE that was mainly a blocker... I end to believe guys like Jaws, Sony, Troy Aikman, Brian Billick, John Madden know more about the QB position than Doc.... that's just me... and all have praised Campbell at times for his progress and ability to recognize defenses

i mentioned doc walker cause another poster talked about Jaws..... and I stated my reason. u should read it again. very informative.

so let me get this straight. so when a poster shares your point of view , its ok to name somebody that played the game but when i counter by bringing up another player that played the game, its no good? LOL ur a funny guy. and like ive said, majority of them do not watch redskins game in its entirety or watch redskins game period. we do. doc walker does. i explained this in my previous post.

hard to understand?... yes because it makes absolutely no sense.... so he can only read some defenses? or teams? or maybe he just gets lucky from time to time?

no sense when u dont want to believe it. simple as that. werent u the one who didnt want brunell benched as well? i might be mistaking.

I thought when a QB doesn't throw picks, has a high completion rate and a winning record... that was being consistent

good observation. LOL this guy is still using no INT as his main source of debate let alone a deceptive stat.

when a QB doesnt side step, step up, cant roll out from weak side, read defense ... is also being consistent just like being able to throw to wide open receivers when there is perfect protection. its hard to throw INTs when most of completetions come from wide open targets that are screens and ding and dunks.

So from your angle high above you can see what JC see at ground level from a vertical perspective, with big DL, and other players in between him and the receiver...and know that from his angle he has a clear throwing lane to see that WR that looks open to you... :rubeyes: what eyesight, and I guess you know the play to know where the first read is to as well?

do you even go to redskins games? do you know where fed ex field is?

:secret: you know the Skins are in the top have of the league in making 3rd downs... right?

another stat that is deceptive. for the past 5 weeks or so, 3rd down conversions are low. most came early.... regression. what part of that do you not understand? LOL i like ur style though. using useless deceptive stats and ignoring stats that really matters.

and those times we've thrown short, I believe Zorn addressed about receivers not being open or running the wrong route, many of those times, not to mention the defenses role in those plays... it seemed to happen mostly against Pitts. ad NY... the #1, and #3 defense in the NFL

i also belive zorn said campbell is making mistakes...... but again, as i ve said in previous post. i dont need zorn or anyone else telling me what i see. this aint no rocket science.

and you stayed at a holiday express last night :jerk:

im a jerk for voicing my opinion.

sorry but that isn't any proof that you know squat about football, and your answers above confirms that.

why are you sorry?

please provide detailed examples, with some explanation of what the differences are.

by your "logic" if I watch a lot of medical shows so I can treat your sickness

also I noticed you avoided my explanation of how Zorn helped JC avoid the pass rush

oh boy! weve all gone to hell! why is kobe unanimously good. why is big pappi ?why is art monk ?.......... because we are given this natural ability to distinguish what is and what isnt good. do i need to continue? LOL like others, ur trying too hard. ur just making it more complicated.

[krsone]

<Note-to-Self>

Don't start an argument against bubba.

why? cause he is popular here?

[[[ghost]]]

I'm sick of the O-line getting the blame for a guy who holds the ball way too long, and doesn't have the keen ability to spot the open receiver down the field (the way Romo sits to pee, Eli, and Favre can.....Romo sits to pee immediately spots the open WR down the field, and never hesitates to fire him the ball!) I'm also sick of the excuses of learning a new system and getting used to a rookie head coach. Rookie QBs like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are doing just fine aren't they?

Wow, rather than come to the logic assumption that Sacks are directly related with Poor OL play, you'd rather find another pathetic attempt to blame JC.

Tell me 5 times when JC has had a wide open player that he refused to throw to. Prove that he holds onto the ball all day and that is why he gets sacked.

There are 32 reasons as to why our OL sucks. You're just pulling **** out of your ass.

In case you've forgotten them, here are 7 of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_I99jqTI

Notice how even when our OL decides to at least hold up the DL, they still flush him out of the pocket, throwing off timing and pretty much the entire play.

What the hell am I saying, JC holds onto the ball and continously misses Wide Open WRs. The same ones everyone says can't seem to get open. The same WRs who, when they do get open, drop the damn ball.

[AAARedskin]

];5893505']Wow' date=' rather than come to the logic assumption that Sacks are directly related with Poor OL play, you'd rather find another pathetic attempt to blame JC.

Tell me 5 times when JC has had a wide open player that he refused to throw to. Prove that he holds onto the ball all day and that is why he gets sacked.

There are 32 reasons as to why our OL sucks. You're just pulling **** out of your ass.

In case you've forgotten them, here are 7 of them.

[url']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9_I99jqTI[/url]

Notice how even when our OL decides to at least hold up the DL, they still flush him out of the pocket, throwing off timing and pretty much the entire play.

What the hell am I saying, JC holds onto the ball and continously misses Wide Open WRs. The same ones everyone says can't seem to get open. The same WRs who, when they do get open, drop the damn ball.

Oh, sorry to spoil your little Jason Campbell pep rally, fella. Hey, if you think that the Todd Collins thing last season (with the same talent and the SAME O-Line) was just a fluke, that's fine. Yeah, Todd Collins actually held the ball longer right? And Todd was awful at quickly spotting an open receiver right? Hey, I'll be the 1st to admit that the O-line could do a better job at protection, but if Campbell needs 7 to 8 seconds on each pass play to be a winner, the Skins are in more trouble than you realize.

[LaxBuddy21]

krsone, some of your arguments have validity but most of them do not. I agree with you that Campbell has seem to hit a funk and as goes the QB goes the team for the most part but it works the other way as well. If other parts of the team (receivers, line, backs) are not firing on all cylinders, there is not much a QB can do.

Your movie comparison just does not work at all. You really think you can appreciate the technical aspects of a movie without understanding them? Oh wow, you can look at special effects and say that was cool just like you can look at a touchdown and say that was cool but that doesnt mean you can understand when someone is doing something right in either arena.

Your argument about Romo sits to pee being able to make plays is not exactly spot on either. I agree Romo sits to pee does a great job at turning a broken play into something positive but have you seen the amount of time he gets in the pocket normally? He doesnt have to make nothing into something very often. He sits back in the pocket many times a lot longer than Campbell holds on to the ball and that allows his receivers to beat coverage. His receivers also make plays after they catch the ball and besides Moss, we have not seen a lot of that this season.

As far as the experts go, I agree with you that most of them say what they say to get attention. I never thought Campbell was the MVP or even close to it but I also think he is better than many of the QB's out there.

All that being said, everyone needs to stop bashing you for expressing your opinion. I disagree with you but its not like you just came in here and said Campbell sucks. You are taking the time to support each of your points and thats exactly how discussions should go around here. Too many times people are like get lost and stop watching football. We are all supporting the team just the same and we are all happy when they win. We are just breaking down the aspects of the team the way we see them since none of us can actually be out there playing and have nothing better to do until Sunday!

Hail skins!

[herb mul-key]

we have beaten bad teams mostly and the really good teams beat us...which means we are a medium team not really good not really bad.

Hopefully we can start giving the really good NFL teams (Pit, NYG, Titans, Panthers, Colts) a good game instead of getting our asses kicked.

So basically I think we are pretty good but better teams kick our ass.

The Ravens game will tell a lot. A real test because they play like the Steelers on D. Violent and Nasty...which we are not.

Even if we don't win we need to score some points and not get manhandled.

The offense needs to provide for the defense a little now. Give the D some hope.

[LaxBuddy21]

Oh, sorry to spoil your little Jason Campbell pep rally, fella. Hey, if you think that the Todd Collins thing last season (with the same talent and the SAME O-Line) was just a fluke, that's fine. Yeah, Todd Collins actually held the ball longer right? And Todd was awful at quickly spotting an open receiver right? Hey, I'll be the 1st to admit that the O-line could do a better job at protection, but if Campbell needs 7 to 8 seconds on each pass play to be a winner, the Skins are in more trouble than you realize.

Go back and look at the games, he does not sit in the pocket for 7 to 8 seconds. He would need to actually have protection to have that kind of time. Collins came into an offense he knew inside and out. He knew where everyone was supposed to be and exactly when they would be there. You had to expect Collins would do better. I dont think it would be the same thing here. Did you see him in pre-season? Didnt look as good as he did last year did he? Campbell will either get it over the next 4 games or he wont but we shouldnt be looking for a quick fix just to make the playoffs. We should be grooming our franchise QB and if he is not that person, getting ready to bring in some competition next year.

[SirClintonPortis]

Oh, sorry to spoil your little Jason Campbell pep rally, fella. Hey, if you think that the Todd Collins thing last season (with the same talent and the SAME O-Line) was just a fluke, that's fine. Yeah, Todd Collins actually held the ball longer right? And Todd was awful at quickly spotting an open receiver right? Hey, I'll be the 1st to admit that the O-line could do a better job at protection, but if Campbell needs 7 to 8 seconds on each pass play to be a winner, the Skins are in more trouble than you realize.

10 years in the system gave him plenty of time to learn and practice the nuances of that playbook to the point that recalling the play would be instantaneous. He doesn't have that advantage now. Collins has had to learn all the new terminology, details, etc. I doubt if any of Zorn's plays resemble Saunder's, whether in the way in it's termed or the whole scheme.

[LaxBuddy21]

we have beaten bad teams mostly and the really good teams beat us...which means we are a medium team not really good not really bad.

Hopefully we can start giving the really good NFL teams (Pit, NYG, Titans, Panthers, Colts) a good game instead of getting our asses kicked.

So basically I think we are pretty good but better teams kick our ass.

The Ravens game will tell a lot. A real test because they play like the Steelers on D. Violent and Nasty...which we are not.

Even if we don't win we need to score some points and not get manhandled.

The offense needs to provide for the defense a little now. Give the D some hope.

We beat bad teams and some middle of the road teams (NO, AZ) and got beat by elite teams (except for the Rams). The games we lost, the only team that has really manhandled us is the Giants. The Steelers game was a nasty defensive battle for a good part of the game until Leftwich brought a spark to their offense. The Cowboys game, we should have won and we handled them throughout the game. We just needed a little spark on offense. Even the Rams game was lost on a fluke play. We are a few big plays on offense away from being able to hang with the Elite teams. Our defense is a top defense in the league. Our running game is great. We just need to be able to stretch the field and that will help our running game even more, our defense even more and will help us put up more points on the scoreboard.

[NavyDave]

Funny how you never mentioned how the o-line has regressed. You ever think there is a reason why?

He probably thought everyone knew that:

Samuels is injured and holding off on knee surgery til the end of our season Jansen at starting right tackle is a liability

Rabach while a gamer, is undersized and pushed around frequently this year.

[stp240]

these arguments against campbell are a waste of time

hese a stud with a crumbling offense around him

he will take the blame, just like Eli did, just like Peyton is now

JC is just not in a position to succeed with his experience, O line, new offense and bad recievers

Once he has the experience, the good O line, the same offense for a few years, and good talent to throw to....THEN we can blame JC if he is not performing.

Put him on the Giants and I promise he would be Eli and then some

the most satisfying thing is that all these fans can eat :pooh: cuz hese our QB

and the skins are stickin with him...

he will be given the time and personell to succeed and THEN me and Bubba are gonna laugh at you haters:cheers:

[bubba9497]

Okay K

believe what you want, and I will as well

as I said before, time will answer all questions

[stp240]

now can we hate on some guys who REALLY arent getting it done

like Jon Jansen, Jason Taylor, Andre Carter, Justin Tryon, ARE

wheres the hate? get off JC's back

[JaimeDeCurry]

So to review:

People who have been demonstratively in favor of Campbell's ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

Mel Kiper (NFL Draft Talent Scout)

Joe Gibbs (Twice NFL Head Coach)

Al Saunders (Successful NFL Offensive Coordinator)

Jim Zorn (NFL QB, QB Coach, Head Coach)

Ron Jaworski (NFL QB, NFL Analyst/Commentator)

John Madden (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Steve Mariucci (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Baldinger (NFL Lineman, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Billick (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Troy Aikman (NFL QB, Analyst/Commentator)

Mike Wilbon (Longtime Washington Sportswriter, ESPN Analyst)

People who demonstratively do not believe Campbell has the ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

A bunch of people on a message board

Did I miss anybody?

[Shilsu]

So to review:

People who have been demonstratively in favor of Campbell's ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

Mel Kiper (NFL Draft Talent Scout)

Joe Gibbs (Twice NFL Head Coach)

Al Saunders (Successful NFL Offensive Coordinator)

Jim Zorn (NFL QB, QB Coach, Head Coach)

Ron Jaworski (NFL QB, NFL Analyst/Commentator)

John Madden (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Steve Mariucci (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Baldinger (NFL Lineman, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Billick (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Troy Aikman (NFL QB, Analyst/Commentator)

Mike Wilbon (Longtime Washington Sportswriter, ESPN Analyst)

People who demonstratively do not believe Campbell has the ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

A bunch of people on a message board

Did I miss anybody?

It's like stock analysts. Most of their grades are positive unless it's obvious crap. Patrick Ramsey received support from every single name you listed aside from those who were not analysts or had connections to the Redskins back then.

[JaimeDeCurry]

It's like stock analysts. Most of their grades are positive unless it's obvious crap. Patrick Ramsey received support from every single name you listed aside from those who were not analysts or had connections to the Redskins back then.

So..the people on the message board are right, and all the people who actually do this for a living are wrong?

OR

The people on the message board are right, and everyone who does this for a living with a contrary opinion actually agree with them, but all of them are saying positive things just because it makes for better TV?

[Shilsu]

So..the people on the message board are right, and all the people who actually do this for a living are wrong?

OR

The people on the message board are right, and everyone who does this for a living with a contrary opinion actually agree with them, but all of them are saying positive things just because it makes for better TV?

The people who do this for a living have been wrong many times before, except Jim Zorn because he has no history. Joe Gibbs and Mark Brunell, Brian Billick and Kyle Boller, Mel Kiper and Mike Williams, and so on.

I'm not saying the people on the message board are right, but listing those guys as proof of anything just does not mean much.

[JaimeDeCurry]

The people who do this for a living have been wrong many times before, except Jim Zorn because he has no history. Joe Gibbs and Mark Brunell, Brian Billick and Kyle Boller, Mel Kiper and Mike Williams, and so on.

I'm not saying the people on the message board are right, but listing those guys as proof of anything just does not mean much.

The point I'm trying to make is that people who actually assess talent at the NFL level are universally endorsing Jason Campbell's ability to be a very good NFL quarterback, and have been since he became a starter. The only people who have asserted an opinion contrary to that are those who have no experience in the field, and are going off of what they see from a fan's perspective on a TV angle for four hours on Sundays.

Granted, people make mistakes at every level, and the men listed by me are no exception. But I think the ringing endorsement and lack of knee-jerk reactions from the people who do this as professionals speaks many volumes more than the direct opposite that we've been hearing on this board for about four weeks.

[DCMONEY]

JC has proven if he's given time, he can produce. The O-line splay has stunk the past few weeks.

[nookiebear]

It's the O-Line and the injuries to running backs

It's been discussed so much on here now but I still think it's the O-Line and the fact that Portis and Betts are hobbling around the pitch at the moment

Last weekend both Brees and Rodgers threw pics late on when the pocket collapsed and they were pressured.

JC is getting pressured so much and Moss and Randle El are struggling to get open, plus as Zorn has said, we're not executing simple plays - plenty of dropped passes

It's way to easy to just blame this on Campbell

Campbell was no-way league MVP at 6&2 but he's not a bust at 7&5 either

[nookiebear]

So to review:

People who have been demonstratively in favor of Campbell's ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

Mel Kiper (NFL Draft Talent Scout)

Joe Gibbs (Twice NFL Head Coach)

Al Saunders (Successful NFL Offensive Coordinator)

Jim Zorn (NFL QB, QB Coach, Head Coach)

Ron Jaworski (NFL QB, NFL Analyst/Commentator)

John Madden (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Steve Mariucci (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Baldinger (NFL Lineman, Analyst/Commentator)

Brian Billick (NFL Head Coach, Analyst/Commentator)

Troy Aikman (NFL QB, Analyst/Commentator)

Mike Wilbon (Longtime Washington Sportswriter, ESPN Analyst)

People who demonstratively do not believe Campbell has the ability to be a solid NFL quarterback -

A bunch of people on a message board

Did I miss anybody?

Haha, quality. Great post

If our O-Line was blocking and Portis was healthy our Offense would be on the field longer, and our Defense's excellent stats this season would be even healthier - our D really has had a cracking year

[mike brown]

PTI is useless just like around the horn but here is what's wrong with wilbon's comment.

wilbon doesnt realize that yes, at 6-2 some have said JC for MVP which is comedy at its best because if anyone was MVP of the redskins, it was portis or skins defense. he also doesnt understand that since 6-2 the skins have regressed as the season has moved on. this is what he should be concentrating on. this is the most important part of it and nothing else should matter. this is the reason why it makes me say " give him time? there is nothing i see on the field from this guy that makes me say, give him more time....." if it was the other way around where he did play like he was in a new system and as the season went on, i saw huge improvement on his play on the field... then sure, i would have no problem saying " give him time or another yr!" this should be easy to understand but of course the show is for entertainment and is clueless.

then he only talks about losses against PItts dal and NYG trying to make his argument better by only mentioning good teams we have faced..but totallly ignores about how we played against rams, browns, lions and seahawks. of course we barely won against 3 of those pathetic teams and actually lost against the rams but what he doesnt understand is that the redskins defense against all those teams including NYG, dal and Pitt, was what kept us in games. the offense has been pretty much the same regressing at the same time.

nothing about campbell was impressive. bad to mediocre . portis and redskins defense was what kept us in most of the games.

Exactly. We had to play turnover free football and jc mainly threw 5-10 yrd passes. Guess what in the nfl you have turnovers, you have mistakes but good qb's overcome . JC is not that good . Face it, we need to start now trying to find out if we have a real Good qb, not over the off season.

[DCMONEY]

Exactly. We had to play turnover free football and jc mainly threw 5-10 yrd passes. Guess what in the nfl you have turnovers, you have mistakes but good qb's overcome . JC is not that good . Face it, we need to start now trying to find out if we have a real Good qb, not over the off season.

Whether JC turns out to be good, time will tell. I'll tell you this, Campbell like any other QB given time can play. he's proven that. Its not like Brunell, where the Skins could have a 100 yds rushing and Brunell would still stink. Campbell is playing in his 1st season in this offense, heading towards about 3200 yds passing, maybe 20 td's and about 10 ints, yet people are saying he stinks. I don't know of any other young QB playing in 3 offenses in 4 years moving on and progressing, yet people are saying Jason should. This is funny. I see glaring problems on this team and Jason damn sure ain't the main one like others say he is. To look at that Giants game and blame 98% of it on Jason is laughable. I've played and been around football all my life and its funny how the click i hang with viewed last weeks game different than this forum.

[Brotherz]

Also said that it is messed up that when they were 6-2 people they were saying JC for MVP. But now they are 7-5 that JC is awful.

Yea, its just awful for these fairweather fans of ours to think he is playing well when he is and to say he isn't when he is not. What idiots we are.

[Brotherz]

Whether JC turns out to be good, time will tell. I'll tell you this, Campbell like any other QB given time can play. he's proven that. Its not like Brunell, where the Skins could have a 100 yds rushing and Brunell would still stink. Campbell is playing in his 1st season in this offense, heading towards about 3200 yds passing, maybe 20 td's and about 10 ints, yet people are saying he stinks. I don't know of any other young QB playing in 3 offenses in 4 years moving on and progressing, yet people are saying Jason should. This is funny. I see glaring problems on this team and Jason damn sure ain't the main one like others say he is. To look at that Giants game and blame 98% of it on Jason is laughable. I've played and been around football all my life and its funny how the click i hang with viewed last weeks game different than this forum.

A) Since when is Mark Brunnel in the twilight of his career the bench mark of QB proficiency?

Since you don't know of any other young QB who is progressing like Jason who is in his fourth NFL year, I'll give you Two - Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. Both were not only in a different system last year, Both were in COLLEGE last year, both joined teams who had as many wins combined as the skins had last year. One of them played for DELAWARE last year. BOTH are leading better teams further than us this year. Both have new coaches, neither of which has ever been a head coach in this league. One of those coaches was a perrennial special teams coach, not a QB coach.

The excuses for this offense and Jason in particular is unbelievable to me. Let me say quickly that I don't think jason should be benched. I think he should finish this season and the next. BUT, we coddle this guy. IMO, he has until the end of next season to show he is a starting QB or I would move on in 2010.