Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Ok. So we MUST improve the OL. That brings the Skins two choices: A. Pick OL players through the draft - get young and talented linemen who can passblock. Positives: Keeps building through the draft a priority for the Skins - which we've be begging the Skins to do for years. These guys will be with the teams for years. Negatives: So how long will we have to wait for THESE guys to develop? Most of what we are going to get in the draft are not going to be NFL ready day one. Translation: JC has to continue to deal with bad OL play for another season or two. or B. Trade/Free Agent OL players - try and fill the holes immediately. Positives: No waiting for player to develop - can go almost immediately. Maybe can save season and/or aid JC the next. Negatives: These players (the good ones we need) are going to want $$$ and long-term contracts (even if they are at the end of their careers). And haven't we been down this path before? We've been begging Snyder and Cerrato for years to build through the draft and stop over-paying FAs. Do we now toss it out the window because of JC? Seems like the Skins are stuck between a rock and a hard place. :doh: Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The drop in production from Randy Thomas has effected Jansens play big time. I know Jansen has sucked big time this year but when Randy was playing at a pro bowl level, he covered up for alot of Jansens weaknesses. If you draft a top lineman, there is no need to develop, usually these guys can come in and start right away. Draft lineman from the midwest and youre fine.. Seriously, Next year can look like this Samuels Rinehart Kendall/ Free agent/draftee Thomas/draftee Heyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 We dont have to replace the line at once just piece by piece Ina p[erfect world id liek to see The UDFA start the rest of this season and rinehart start next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 We need to find our version of a Joe Thomas, through the draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmuss1 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I don't get why Rhinehart hasn't gotten any looks this year, from what was being said about him, he is a stud. Heyer should be playing, he will only get better with more and more game reps. He cannot do any worse than Jansen, I ask why arent these players being utilized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 We dont have to replace the line at once just piece by piece Ina p[erfect world id liek to see The UDFA start the rest of this season and rinehart start next seasonThe problem is that almost the entire OL has been having issues, sans Samuels (but he is getting older and less effective). This OL seems like it needs the overhaul, but even if you do it piece by piece, I don't believe it's going to develop fast enough to save Campbell this season or next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarco Murray 29 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 From a fans point of view, I would say build through the draft. But as being a Cowboy fan, watching Dallas and Washington, we know our teams are built through free agency. As sad as it is, it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Ok. So we MUST improve the OL. That brings the Skins two choices:A. Pick OL players through the draft - get young and talented linemen who can passblock. Positives: Keeps building through the draft a priority for the Skins - which we've be begging the Skins to do for years. These guys will be with the teams for years. Negatives: So how long will we have to wait for THESE guys to develop? Most of what we are going to get in the draft are not going to be NFL ready day one. Translation: JC has to continue to deal with bad OL play for another season or two. or B. Trade/Free Agent OL players - try and fill the holes immediately. Positives: No waiting for player to develop - can go almost immediately. Maybe can save season and/or aid JC the next. Negatives: These players (the good ones we need) are going to want $$$ and long-term contracts (even if they are at the end of their careers). And haven't we been down this path before? We've been begging Snyder and Cerrato for years to build through the draft. Do we now toss it out the window because of JC? Seems like the Skins are stuck between a rock and a hard place. :doh: I think for any position, the default answer should be "A". Sure, you can strike gold once in awhile with a free agent like John Riggins, Dave Butz, Terry Allen, or London Fletcher. But we should rely on the draft, and use FA as an extra supplement. Seems like our front office treats FA and the draft in the opposite manner. Yes, a youth movement usually sucks at first. But if our scouts, front office, and coaches are good, patience is always rewarded in the end. FA hasn't solved many problems for us recently. Seems like we pay big bucks and run into the same issues all over again (DE, for example). Whereas if we drafted more, we'd be better over time and more money to spread around. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I've said before that really the only addition we really need to add in the offseason is a quality center. We have an adequate replacement for Jansen in Heyer, and if Kendall moves on (or even if he does stay on), we have Rinehart. Samuels and Thomas are not going anywhere in the near future, which leaves Rabach. Now, any changes probably will take time to gel and we should expect some time for even existing players to come together. There is also the question if all of these guys will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 We dont have to replace the line at once just piece by piece Ina p[erfect world id liek to see The UDFA start the rest of this season and rinehart start next season I am not depending on UDFA and believing they can be our replacements for the next decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I don't get why Rhinehart hasn't gotten any looks this year, from what was being said about him, he is a stud. Heyer should be playing, he will only get better with more and more game reps. He cannot do any worse than Jansen, I ask why arent these players being utilized? We haven't seen Rhinehart because guard hasn't been a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think for any position, the default answer should be "A". Sure, you can strike gold once in awhile with a free agent like John Riggins, Dave Butz, Terry Allen, or London Fletcher. But we should rely on the draft, and use FA as an extra supplement. Seems like our front office treats FA and the draft in the opposite manner. Yes, a youth movement usually sucks at first. But if our scouts, front office, and coaches are good, patience is always rewarded in the end. FA hasn't solved many problems for us recently. Seems like we pay big bucks and run into the same issues all over again (DE, for example). Whereas if we drafted more, we'd be better over time and more money to spread around. HTTR I've said before that really the only addition we really need to add in the offseason is a quality center. We have an adequate replacement for Jansen in Heyer, and if Kendall moves on (or even if he does stay on), we have Rinehart. Samuels and Thomas are not going anywhere in the near future, which leaves Rabach.Now, any changes probably will take time to gel and we should expect some time for even existing players to come together. There is also the question if all of these guys will work out. Does JC have the time, and Zorn the patience, to wait for these guys to develop and gel? If their play continues to be spotty, even if better - does that help JC become the QB that he should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Just posted this on another thread. No question the O-Line needs attending to. It's been a neglected area of this team for WAY too long now. I guess, when your trying to balance the present and future up, this being a "win now" league, the best we can hope is a mixture of the draft and hopefully a top free agent line man pick up this off-season. We CERTAINLY need to make it one of the top priorities though. No question of that. But here's a thought. If the present O-Line is as BAD as is being suggested, and we all agree it's ageing and needs to get younger, maybe, just MAYBE, the present QB could HELP them out by releasing the darn ball like most normal QB's do and NOT force the O-Line to hold their blocks WAY longer than any other line while he try's in vein to identify his receivers. Just a thought, but hey, that will fly in the face of the "blame everyone BUT JC" brigade, so it will probably fall on deaf ears. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. really, mangold, faneca, fergurson and moore are nasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercuryrising Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. Is collins supposed to be Favre now?!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyUtah Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. So getting Faneca, arguably one of the best guards in the game, had nothing to do with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. Look again(at their offensive line and who they picked up in the offseason) And how many Brett Favre's are floating around..hmmm? Sure a Great QB can cover up some of the deficiencies of the oline and make plays when things break down...but more sound O line play helps a good quarter back and well, is a great QB's dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 So getting Faneca, arguably one of the best guards in the game, had nothing to do with that? You think adding a guard had more impact than adding Favre? I think Favre behind the Skins line would have less than half the sacks than JC has taken this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Look again(at their offensive line and who they picked up in the offseason) And how many Brett Favre's are floating around..hmmm? Sure a Great QB can cover up some of the deficiencies of the oline and make plays when things break down...but more sound O line play helps a good quarter back and well, is a great QB's dream. Favre was floating around this past off season. He knows Holmgrem's system far better than the Jets scheme. Giving up less for Favre than Brandon Lloyd or TJ Duckett would have been worth hurting JC's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Choice C: Change the QB. Worked for the Jets. As did signing Alan Faneca, Damian Woody and Tony Richardson in the same offseason. You have to go with the draft because it starts the process. Sure guys might not be ready right away, but the draft gets guys in the pipeline. While we struggle this year, maybe Rhinehart and Heyer can go full-time next year. If we draft again this year, then we can get the new guys ready for Thomas and Samuels when they leave. If we keep drafting successfully, there's always going to be someone there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml6157 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I say both. Bring in Jordan Gross to take over at RT. Draft Duke Robinson in the first round and let the better of Thomas or Rinehart start at G. Id blow a load if our line looked like this next year: LT - Samuels - LG - Robinson - C - Rabach - RG - Rinehart - Thomas RT - Gross - Heyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyUtah Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Look again(at their offensive line and who they picked up in the offseason) And how many Brett Favre's are floating around..hmmm? Sure a Great QB can cover up some of the deficiencies of the oline and make plays when things break down...but more sound O line play helps a good quarter back and well, is a great QB's dream. Exactly my point...Brett Favre would still be getting mauled behind our line at this point in the season. I've got to say that you're delusional if you don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Does JC have the time, and Zorn the patience, to wait for these guys to develop and gel? If their play continues to be spotty, even if better - does that help JC become the QB that he should be?How much better are things going to be for JC if we continue to pick up old guys to fill in, like say the situation we're in at O-Line now? That's how we got into this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Exactly my point...Brett Favre would still be getting mauled behind our line at this point in the season. I've got to say that you're delusional if you don't think so. Yeah, I dont think Brett Favre would do much. Half the sacks this season were at the end of the drop back. Not even Brett "Worlds Greatest Mancrush" Favre could do anything bout that. And really, has Favre really outplayed Campbell by the lengths people want to believe? 8-4 compared to 7-5. All that noise about Favre for 1 more win? 2708 yards passing to 2560 yards. That 150 yards or so are supposed to show that Favre is lightyears ahead of Campbell? 6.9 ypa to 6.8 which is somehow supposed to show that Campbell isnt capable 20/14 TD/INT to 10/4 which is the one stat that really jumps out at you. But Favre had that game where Arizona forgot to play defense and had 6 TDs. Which isnt to say he didnt take advantage of it. But without that game to pad his stats he would have a 14/13 TDs/INTs which is very Jason Campbell from last season like. Is that would Favre would have brought here. 1 enourmous game against a non-division opponent? 90.4 rating to 87.8 - really? 10 fumbles to 5 - edge Campbell 23 sacks taken to 32 - Edge Favre here. But I havent watched Favre. That could be 23 blown blocks from his line, or 23 of Favre "holding the ball too long." Again, Campbell has an extreme game here of 7 sacks. Im not going to say "take out the 7 sacks and its 23-25" cause some of those sacks were on Campbell. But I will say having watched Campbell, alot of these sacks are Rabach forgetting to block a Dtackle or a blitzer coming in clean cause of a missed blocking assignment. For a guy who chronically "holds onto the ball too long" compared to the guy who "gets it out quick" shouldnt the difference be a little higher than 9? I dunno, Im just not sure getting the ball out quicker would solve anything or having Favre would solve it. If its not open, its not open. You just turn Sacks into Ints. Is that better? BTW, both draft and FA have to be options. I think Id prefer the trade down and stock pile on both lines method though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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