Players we wanted to draft and their stats

[#98QBKiller]

I'll come clean. I was big on Malcolm Kelly and I still am. I saw a lot of him and Limas Sweed in college because my best friend is a big Oklahoma fan and my g/f is a big Texas fan.

I still have faith in Kelly. The way I see it a lot of receivers don't have overwhelming rookie campaigns. I feel like we'll see whether he lives up to expectations or not by next season but I at least hope to see him get some more action this season.

[NAC386]

Makes me fel a little better about Thomas and Kelly. I actually was pushing for help at the OL.

I was too, but honestly there was nobody worth taking with our pick. I wanted Brandon Albert but he was long gone by time we got our chance to pick.

[GenMgr]

I believe that teams which are already good can mix the draft with studs and future prospects. I like the draft but with the gaping hole at receiver, the FO should not have taken a chance on Kelly with his knee. While I like the direction and heavy offensive focus of the first three draft picks, I feel that the FO put all their eggs into the Kelly basket without a backup plan. I would have loved Kelly's selection more if VC was going to get either Chad Johnson or Roy Williams or possibly Boldin, a good receiver that can contribute right now and scare defenses. The Giants can do what the Skins did and "stash" the receivers until they are up to speed b/c they already have Burress, Toomer, and Smith. We needed a 2nd Receiver now....and the current urgency of Kelly is proof.

[Bacon]

I actually was pushing for help at the OL.

That's what I'm pushing for with this upcoming draft. It's going to be difficult to judge how our receivers are progressing if Campbell is getting sacked 5 times a game. Samuels, Rinehart, and Heyer should stay, but I'm fed up with Jansen and Rabach. Enough is enough. The right side of the line is particularly awful.

[#98QBKiller]

That's what I'm pushing for with this upcoming draft. It's going to be difficult to judge how our receivers are progressing if Campbell is getting sacked 5 times a game. Samuels, Rinehart, and Heyer should stay, but I'm fed up with Jansen and Rabach. Enough is enough. The right side of the line is particularly awful.

We could potentially fix that in this draft alone. Spend our 1st on a stud RT (Phil Loadholt from Oklahomka, 6-8, 350 and a hell of a blocker) and our 3rd on a center and we'd be pretty good in that dept. Keep Rabach on board to groom our center and either Jansen or Heyer to backup our RT and we'd be in good shape on OL.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Campbell is the one that still hurts.

And will really hurt should Taylor decide not to play next year.

Yeah, Im with you!

[NAC386]

I really don't think Taylor is going to retire, he has already said he'll at least play out his contract.

[[[ghost]]]

And to think of all the endless "Limus Swede" arguments this past off-season. :doh:

I'll admit, I was quite possibly the biggest Sweed supporter in the Universe last April. I still stand to my word, he could be lethal.

But just like April, I still think Nelson will be one of the weakest players out of this class. Obviously, he's outperforming Thomas, Sweed, Kelly, and most other receivers right now, but I genuinely believe he'll never be much more than a serviceable #3. He's very fortunate to be on a team where he has Donald Driver and Greg Jennings playing ahead of him. Thomas has Moss and ARE, and while Moss has regained old form (though still slightly injured), and ARE is having a career year, he still commands a decent bit of attention when hitting the field.

[MumboSauce]

Hey I won't lie I wanted Campbell or Merling...goes to show you have to take the better player/value at the pick while somewhat filling a need than just take a position of need solely. We still need a good young DE but it wasn't to be.

[TheLongshot]

It doesn't matter how tall or short a WR is. Production is production, bottom line.

And bottom line, we could use some production opposite Santana at the WR position. We haven't had any since he's been here.

While that's true, the kind of production we have been lacking has been getting the ball into the end zone. For that, you could use a guy like Kelly who is big and has good hands. A guy like Jackson doesn't help with that.

[phishisthegreatstuff]

kelly, thomas, and davis haven't done anything either. So you can't say its not like it was a good decision to pick these guys. It might end up being that way but we don't know anything yet.

[GibbsforPrez]

For all those Calais Campbell lovers; just watching the MNF game between Arizona and SF and Campbell isn't even being used in crucial passing situations. 3rd & 10 for SF with 4:00 minutes to go and they showed Campbell on the sideline trying to get the crowd pumped up. Not saying the guy won't develop, but as of right now he really hasn't done much. I haven't been paying all that close attention to how much playing time he's gotten on the night, but he has no sacks and no tackles.

[Shilsu]

I hope you realize that your rationalization that "these guys aren't contributing that much" makes it that much more of an insult to injury considering that they are still contributing 100x more than all three of our picks.

If they aren't contributing that much... Then I wonder how you describe what our second round class is doing.

With that said... Why the hell did we get Fred Davis.

[McD5]

For all those Calais Campbell lovers; just watching the MNF game between Arizona and SF and Campbell isn't even being used in crucial passing situations. 3rd & 10 for SF with 4:00 minutes to go and they showed Campbell on the sideline trying to get the crowd pumped up. Not saying the guy won't develop, but as of right now he really hasn't done much. I haven't been paying all that close attention to how much playing time he's gotten on the night, but he has no sacks and no tackles.

It makes what he has done all that much more impressive.

He plays on a team with an insane line....and hardly gets any playing time.

Now go compare his stats to those of Andre Carter.....a guy who gets all kinds of playing time...and add in the fact that it is his first year.

It is early, but so far he has singlehandedly done more than all of our top 3 second rounders COMBINED.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I hope you realize that your rationalization that "these guys aren't contributing that much" makes it that much more of an insult to injury considering that they are still contributing 100x more than all three of our picks.

If they aren't contributing that much... Then I wonder how you describe what our second round class is doing.

With that said... Why the hell did we get Fred Davis.

That's not the point...the point is that WAY too many on here kept thinking that "if only we had drafterd a DE/CB/Whatever, instead of "three pass catchers"!!", as if drafting a DE or CB would have automatically meant impressive production from them by now. This thread, to me at least, clearly shows that none of those players would have made a bit of difference in where we're at right now...for example, Campbell's 14 tackles would not have made one iota of difference to how good the team is currently playing. He wouldn't be starting ahead of Evans, who has 14 tackles as well but also has 4 sacks to go along with them. And while Phillips is playing well, Horton is playing better...so we're not missing out on anything by not being able to draft him. At least not right now...

If anything, those stats show that it is indeed more difficult to make an immediate impact as a rookie wr than it is at almost every other position.

[McD5]

That's not the point...the point is that WAY too many on here kept thinking that "if only we had drafterd a DE/CB/Whatever, instead of "three pass catchers"!!", as if drafting a DE or CB would have automatically meant impressive production from them by now. This thread, to me at least, clearly shows that none of those players would have made a bit of difference in where we're at right now...for example, Campbell's 14 tackles would not have made one iota of difference to how good the team is currently playing. He wouldn't be starting ahead of Evans, who has 14 tackles as well but also has 4 sacks to go along with them. And while Phillips is playing well, Horton is playing better...so we're not missing out on anything by not being able to draft him. At least not right now...

If anything, those stats show that it is indeed more difficult to make an immediate impact as a rookie wr than it is at almost every other position.

In the case of Campbell, it would have made a big difference.

First, we would have our second round pick next season. Not to say that second round pick would turn into anything....but we would have one.

Secondly, look at how many plays a game Campbell gets....playing behind a superstar.....and how many Evans and Carter get.

Finally, if you ever have the time.....either browse Arizona reports for articles/opinions on Campbell, or check out the arizona forum to see how the fans feel about him.

They all believe he could start on most nfl teams today.

Now, compare that to how we, and Zorn apparently, feel about Kelly and Thomas.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if we could trade Kelly for Campbell right now, Redskins 1 would be in the air immediately.

[GibbsforPrez]

It makes what he has done all that much more impressive.

He plays on a team with an insane line....and hardly gets any playing time.

Now go compare his stats to those of Andre Carter.....a guy who gets all kinds of playing time...and add in the fact that it is his first year.

It is early, but so far he has singlehandedly done more than all of our top 3 second rounders COMBINED.

Not to rip on your point because I completely understand what you're saying, but I'd hardly call Antonio Smith an insane linemen. 9 games, 7 starts and a total of 17 tackles and 0 sacks. Not exactly a stud when it comes to rushing the passer, yet he's getting the nod over Campbell in this situation. I just think the Cardinals don't see Campbell as a quality pass rusher in the NFL yet especially coming off the edge. They moved him from DE to DT which is not at all what anyone here wanted him for.

[TheLongshot]

First, we would have our second round pick next season. Not to say that second round pick would turn into anything....but we would have one.

A big assumption on your part. Considering that the Skins didn't think he was worth their second 2nd round pick, I doubt they would have thought highly enough about him to not trade for Taylor.

Finally, if you ever have the time.....either browse Arizona reports for articles/opinions on Campbell, or check out the arizona forum to see how the fans feel about him.

What does fan opinion have to do with the player? Hell, I don't trust fan opinion on THIS board.

Now, compare that to how we, and Zorn apparently, feel about Kelly and Thomas.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if we could trade Kelly for Campbell right now, Redskins 1 would be in the air immediately.

Actually, I've seen what Zorn thinks about Kelly, and it tells me that he'd keep Kelly any day of the week over Campbell. The fact that Kelly is still on the active roster speaks volumes about Zorn's opinion of him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

In the case of Campbell, it would have made a big difference.

First, we would have our second round pick next season.

Perhaps you didn't notice all the places in my post where I said it would not have made any different "right now"...I even italicized "now" for emphasis lol...

Secondly, you don't know if we would have had our 2nd round pick still, because the coaches may have felt neither Campbell or Evans would be an adequate substitution for Phillip Daniels when he went out for the season (not to mention having Buzbee go down as well). They very well may still have traded for Jason Taylor. I mean, there's no way in hell Campbell would have impressed the coaches in one day of training camp so much that they would have felt trading for Jason Taylor was no longer necessary. So that part of your post is moot.

Secondly, look at how many plays a game Campbell gets....playing behind a superstar.....and how many Evans and Carter get.

How about looking at how many plays Chris Wilson gets?...Because Campbell and Wilson are pretty much the same player right now...at least stats-wise. Would ANYONE here say to themselves "Man, if we just had two Chris Wilsons instead of Chris Wilson and Devin Thomas, we'd be playing SO much better right now"??...No way in hell does anyone say that. Which is the point I felt this thread was making.

Finally, if you ever have the time.....either browse Arizona reports for articles/opinions on Campbell, or check out the arizona forum to see how the fans feel about him.

They all believe he could start on most nfl teams today.

Again, how Campbell might play "if" or "when" starting is not the point I was making...I mentioned how way too many here seem to think that if we had drafted a DE (Campbell or someone else) or a CB or "whoever", they would have been producing significantly more by now than Thomas...as if drafting a DE or CB would automatically had a profound effect on how good the team is so far and Vinny should have known that lol...

The only way we can know that is if they are producing significantly more now...not if they might contribute significantly more in some imagined scenario. Since we really don't know how they would have done on the Skins, we can only look at how they've done so far on their respective teams. While the Cardinals do have a very good DLine and it has obviously effected Campbell's playing time, there's no guarantee that Campbell would have adjusted quickly enough to take time away from Evans or have impressed the coaches THAT quickly to make them decide that trading for Jason Taylor was now unnecessary.

So...based on his production so far, you transfer that same production to the Skins, and it equates to having two Chris Wilsons on the team instead of one (again, right now)...

Now, compare that to how we, and Zorn apparently, feel about Kelly and Thomas.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if we could trade Kelly for Campbell right now, Redskins 1 would be in the air immediately.

I don't really care how the fans feel about Kelly, Thomas or Calais Campbell. Look at how we felt about Jason Campbell, Santana Moss and Clinton Portis before the season started. Hell, look at how we feel about these same players from one week to the next lol. That's a superficial reason to believe Calais Campbell being on the Skins would have somehow made the team noticeably better than it already is right now...

[SEANTAYLOR=HITMAN]

i wish we got Eddie Royal his from Virginia high school, actully went to a high school like 30 minutes away from mine, he went to Virginia tech and would be great if he came to the redskins, i think him and desean jackson will be the future Santana moss

[corrupt3d]

In the case of Campbell, it would have made a big difference.

First, we would have our second round pick next season. Not to say that second round pick would turn into anything....but we would have one.

Secondly, look at how many plays a game Campbell gets....playing behind a superstar.....and how many Evans and Carter get.

Finally, if you ever have the time.....either browse Arizona reports for articles/opinions on Campbell, or check out the arizona forum to see how the fans feel about him.

They all believe he could start on most nfl teams today.

Now, compare that to how we, and Zorn apparently, feel about Kelly and Thomas.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if we could trade Kelly for Campbell right now, Redskins 1 would be in the air immediately.

You would think John Palermo would have been championing for him.

[knowledge316]

Fred Davis pick still makes no sense to me...i've heard about the 2 TE formations on passing downs and such all offseason, how both Davis and Cooley would be big targets for JC in the redzone, yet through 9 games, it hasn't happened

Selecting a backup TE in the 2nd round is not a good idea

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Fred Davis pick still makes no sense to me...i've heard about the 2 TE formations on passing downs and such all offseason, how both Davis and Cooley would be big targets for JC in the redzone, yet through 9 games, it hasn't happened

Selecting a backup TE in the 2nd round is not a good idea

The only way it makes sense is if Vinny and Zorn had a philosophy of using 1st day picks this year to stock the depth with the best players available, regardless of whether or not it was an immediate area of need, so that 1-2 years from now they'll be coming into their own right when they will be needed to contribute a lot more. If they felt that all the returning starters were more than talented enough to make another realistic playoff run, then that would mean they felt there was no "immediate" area of need, and I guess I can see taking that route.

Personally I don't think they should have seen Phillip Daniels as a bonafide starter simply because of his age (although his injury was not age-related), and tried to find someone to realistically push him for the starting position. Perhaps they felt Merling would be that player, but he was taken 2 spots before the Skins had a chance to take him themselves....

[mhearn]

Yeah he isn't the pick for us, but those clips were sick, hopefully we won't have to kick it to him too often in the near future.

in the thread linked talking about desean jackson, lmao he jinxed us!

[corrupt3d]

The only way it makes sense is if Vinny and Zorn had a philosophy of using 1st day picks this year to stock the depth with the best players available, regardless of whether or not it was an immediate area of need, so that 1-2 years from now they'll be coming into their own right when they will be needed to contribute a lot more. If they felt that all the returning starters were more than talented enough to make another realistic playoff run, then that would mean they felt there was no "immediate" area of need, and I guess I can see taking that route.

Personally I don't think they should have seen Phillip Daniels as a bonafide starter simply because of his age (although his injury was not age-related), and tried to find someone to realistically push him for the starting position. Perhaps they felt Merling would be that player, but he was taken 2 spots before the Skins had a chance to take him themselves....

I'm pretty sure they admitted that they were targetting Merling and didn't expect him to go (moreso, that he's a 4-3 end playing in a 3-4 now. He's a great run-blocker, not so much a pass rusher and I do remember reading that he had to bulk up some)