DCBnG21 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Surprisingly, I didn't see any threads on this topic, but I just ran across these pictures that were shot at the scene of the raid of the "civilian farm" and had to post them. Don't all 'peaceful, farming buildings' have a 25ft high cinder block fence surrounding them on four sides? :doh: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/features/article_1439383.php/In_photos_%5CSyria-US_Raid%5C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have no doubt that Syria lies all the damn time... but your link doesn't seem to show any reason to think that they are lying here. I'm not saying they aren't - I'm just saying that you haven't showed anything except pictures of some angry mourning people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBnG21 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have no doubt that Syria lies all the damn time...but your link doesn't seem to show any reason to think that they are lying here. I'm not saying they aren't - I'm just saying that you haven't showed anything except pictures of some angry mourning people. Sorry, if I come across as trying to claim that it's some sort of damning evidence - I don't think it is. I was specifically talking about pictures 1 & 3 that show said building surrounded by a 20 something foot cinder-block wall. Why? Especially in a 3rd world country, on a poor farm.... I just think it's hilarious...that's obviously not for farming purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 walls are a fairly common place technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I would think the wall is to block sand from entering the compound during a sandstorm. But I must admit I know very little about how farms work over there. Doesn't mean it wasn't a safehouse/meeting-place for insurgents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 So where is the farm? Anyone see anything there that resembles a farm? Anyone ever see a farm that needs giant cinderblock walls? Next question. Who here thinks that we attacked this place without SERIOUSLY watching what was going on there for some time. Who out there honestly thinks we made a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Sorry, if I come across as trying to claim that it's some sort of damning evidence - I don't think it is. I was specifically talking about pictures 1 & 3 that show said building surrounded by a 20 something foot cinder-block wall. Why? Especially in a 3rd world country, on a poor farm.... I just think it's hilarious...that's obviously not for farming purposes Why do you assume that the wall encompasses the entire farm, rather than just the housing complex? I can't tell that from the pictures. In fact, I can't tell much of anything from those pictures except that some people are quite upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 So where is the farm? Anyone see anything there that resembles a farm? Anyone ever see a farm that needs giant cinderblock walls?Next question. Who here thinks that we attacked this place without SERIOUSLY watching what was going on there for some time. Who out there honestly thinks we made a mistake? We never make mistakes. The farm was obviously housing all the WMDs from Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 So where is the farm? Anyone see anything there that resembles a farm? Anyone ever see a farm that needs giant cinderblock walls? Read all the posts above. Next question. Who here thinks that we attacked this place without SERIOUSLY watching what was going on there for some time. Who out there honestly thinks we made a mistake? I am sure that we did our best not to make a mistake. As to whether we actually made a mistake, I have no idea. Mistakes happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 We never make mistakes. The farm was obviously housing all the WMDs from Iraq. Obviously some people seem to think we never do anything right. Obviously some people would rather assume SYRIA is innocent and America is evil. :jerk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The Syrian government are liars, but an important part of this war is to win the propaganda battle and reassure the 'Middle Eastern man in the street' that such actions are justified. If we're putting boots on the ground inside another nation's borders to kill people (including innocent bystanders too apparently), I'd hope we can present some photos of weapons, or other reasons why we were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBnG21 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Why do you assume that the wall encompasses the entire farm, rather than just the housing complex? I can't tell that from the pictures. In fact, I can't tell much of anything from those pictures except that some people are quite upset. I don't; rather, I assume it surrounds just the building going up which makes it so much weirder. C'mon, I don't think it outright proves terrorist activity at the farm, but you have to admit it's ridiculously bizarre. This wall, is in the middle of rural Syria, and was supposedly built by a poor farmer? C'mon...look at the amount of cinderblocks alone...that's years of wages worth of material to a poor person in a 3rd world country. I've been to some 3rd world farms, they string together fences from bits of wood, twine and barbed wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Obviously some people seem to think we never do anything right. Obviously some people would rather assume SYRIA is innocent and America is evil.:jerk: No one said that. Have fun with your shadowboxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I don't; rather, I assume it surrounds just the building going up which makes it so much weirder. C'mon, I don't think it outright proves terrorist activity at the farm, but you have to admit it's ridiculously bizarre.This wall, is in the middle of rural Syria, and was supposedly built by a poor farmer? C'mon...look at the amount of cinderblocks alone...that's years of wages worth of material to a poor person in a 3rd world country. I've been to some 3rd world farms, they string together fences from bits of wood, twine and barbed wire. Who said the farmer was poor? Who said there was only one farmer? I've seen a lot of pictures of the Middle East, and it seems like nothing is as common there as cinderblock walls. If there is more information, I'd be happy to read it. I'm not taking the side of the Syrians. I'm saying that these photos are lousy evidence that isn't going to convince anyone (except Mad Mike). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 This wall, is in the middle of rural Syria, and was supposedly built by a poor farmer? Why are you saying it's necessarily a poor farmer? It was a construction site in an area that has a huge agriculture industry along the Euphrates River (formerly known as the Garden of Eden ). Parts of Syria have living standards typical of the third world but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Read all the posts above.I am sure that we did our best not to make a mistake. As to whether we actually made a mistake, I have no idea. Mistakes happen. You have no idea... mistakes happen.... RIiiiiight. Love the disclaimer. But the bottom line is once again you jumped into a discussion on the side of our enemies. You could have jumped in and said "yeah we could have made a mistake, but more than likely, knowing Syria's track record, we hit a terrorist compound. That would have been fair to say too right? But what was the position you took again? but your link doesn't seem to show any reason to think that they are lying here. I'm sure you have seen lots of farms with 25 foot cinderblock walls in terrorist supporting middle east nations. But hey, as long as you put in the disclaimer and all you are just being fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I have no clue as to whether this bombing was necessary or not. I pretty much abhore all civilian casualties, but civilian casulties from bombings of an otherwise neutral country are especially damaging to our mission. Again, I have no clue as to whether this bombing was necessary, I wish I had more than this administration's word that it was; and I don't think I find their word credible. Sorry, if I come across as trying to claim that it's some sort of damning evidence - I don't think it is. I was specifically talking about pictures 1 & 3 that show said building surrounded by a 20 something foot cinder-block wall. Why? Especially in a 3rd world country, on a poor farm.... I just think it's hilarious...that's obviously not for farming purposes I lived in the middle east for around a year. At least in Saudi where I lived, walls around homes, compounds, farms, estates were the rule not the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Some further information for those who think this "might be a mistake"... http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/27/syria.iraq/?iref=mpstoryview The American official, who would not be identified but who has access to U.S. intelligence, identified the intended target of the attack as "Abu Ghadiya," an Iraqi whose family the official said has been active in smuggling money, weapons and foreign fighters across the Syrian border into Iraq. So they had a specific target. Four U.S. helicopters flew from Iraq about 8 kilometers (5 miles) into Syria and struck a farm around 5 p.m.Two helicopters then landed near the farm while the other two provided cover from above, the minister said. Soldiers from the two helicopters on the ground fatally shot four members of one family, a guard at the farm and his wife and a man who was fishing nearby, Mouallem said. The U.S. official, who asked to remain anonymous because of the classified nature of the operation, also confirmed that U.S. helicopters and military special operations forces carried out the attack. So we landed special forces and THEY couldn't tell a terrorist camp from a farm. Who wants to tell me that our special forces wiped out a bunch of farmers for giggles. How about the Iraqi position?.... An Iraqi government spokesman told CNN the Iraqi government was aware of the reports of the U.S. raid and was checking "with the American side to get the full details of the operation."The spokesman, Ali Dabbagh, added, "We don't want for these isolated acts to affect our relations with Syria. We want good relations, but we must remember that 13 Iraqi policemen from the Ministry of Interior were killed in an Iraqi bordering village near that region by a terrorist group that was operating from the Syrian territories. And what do we know about those who were killed? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/28/syria-usa-iraq-bush-terrorism Syria reported that US troops, backed by helicopters, launched the attack five miles into its territory, killing eight people, including four children. But at the funerals of the victims, where angry crowds chanted anti-American slogans, an Associated Press photographer said he saw the bodies of seven men. But hey let's be fair. It *MIGHT* have been a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuckahoeSkin Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 The Syrian government are liars, but an important part of this war is to win the propaganda battle and reassure the 'Middle Eastern man in the street' that such actions are justified.If we're putting boots on the ground inside another nation's borders to kill people (including innocent bystanders too apparently), I'd hope we can present some photos of weapons, or other reasons why we were there. Part of that "winning the minds in the streets" is also smacking liars in the face. Last year I completed a home for a couple who emigrated here from Iran. It was interesting hearing their views on this. Arguing and haggling are the norm in their culture. The husband made the point that strength is respected. That's why we need to smack down regimes like Syria when we figure out they are lying. It is all about our perception there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 walls are a fairly common place technology And they are a defensive technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 And they are a defensive technology. like someone else said in the Middle East everyone has concrete walls when I lived in Iran, my house was surrounded by a wall, anyone that could afford a wall got one. it was a privacy thing in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 So, the next time Russian crosses over into Georgia, we really don't have any room to object, do we? After all, here we are raiding into the territory of another nation. Yes. Syria aren't the necessarily the "good guys," as we see them. Yes, we have a right to defend ourselves, but I don't think those principles come into play in this case. We just raided into the territory of another nation, and I do not think it helped our cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Obviously some people seem to think we never do anything right. Obviously some people would rather assume SYRIA is innocent and America is evil.:jerk: Obviously when Mike :jerk: it causes him to see things that aren't there. And type about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Obviously when Mike :jerk: it causes him to see things that aren't there. And type about them. Ah, but I only :jerk: while thinking of you in a tub of jello. Ya big lug you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 . . . but more than likely . . . we hit a terrorist compound. And you claim that he's jumping to conclusions without evidence? Maybe you should stick to :jerk:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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