Prosperity Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 You are so rightits the economy stupid....... Until the next 9/11 i wonder how long till the vote for mcccain or else ads show up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 2) Is it appropriate for a Senator and Presidential candidate to attempt to thwart a "Memorandum of Understanding" between the Office of Commander-in-Chief and a Foreign Government? I don't really believe this is treason, but it certainly is meddling... I'm not sure if it's a new story. I guess what I'd ask is if you had the same questions about Reagan and the Iranian hostages. These exact same rumors were playing all throughout the 1980 elections. About how Reagan negotiated and asked the Iranians not to be released until after the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dammit Burgold, you beat me to it! :mad: Reagan did the same thing to Carter with the endgame of the Iran hostage crisis. To my recollection, nobody was calling him a traitor...though I do remember a few isolated questions being asked about how appropriate that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Dammit Burgold, you beat me to it! :mad:Reagan did the same thing to Carter with the endgame of the Iran hostage crisis. To my recollection, nobody was calling him a traitor...though I do remember a few isolated questions being asked about how appropriate that was. Great minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I guess what I'd ask is if you had the same questions about Reagan and the Iranian hostages. These exact same rumors were playing all throughout the 1980 elections. About how Reagan negotiated and asked the Iranians not to be released until after the elections. Unless you can provide a link, you are going off-topic again... Of course, if I say that it is highly inappropriate then that same judgment would apply to anyone... even Reagan. However, I've seen some of the scant evidence on this... and nothing definitive. Reagan's only meddling that I have seen argued was in advising the Iranians to release the hostages BEFORE he took office, and he warned of repercussions. Anyway, the two events aren't connected at all... Warning a country what you will do before you become President isn't the same as undermining the current Presidents policies... If Barack Obama had said: "When I become President, I will tear up this memo of understanding and we will write another one..." That would be more applicable to what Ronald Reagan has been accused of... Unless you have other information on Reagan. What Barack Obama appears to have done is undermine the policies of a current administration, not define the policies of his own future administration. If you have actual evidence, then I wouldn't mind seeing it. Possibly in a private message. I'm just not sure it is relevant to the Washington Times article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Great minds You guys love to pat yourselves on the back... It's like a support group for liberal misfits. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Here's a few just from the top of google. It's a very parallel situation. The Iranian Hostage situation was a huge reason for Carter's trouncing in the 1980 election and even more than the gas shortages and inflation, a big reason why people still hate him. You can find 10 or 100,000 more articles, books, documentaries, news clips, audio files, etc. if you would like. Amazon.com: October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the ...This review is from: October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan/Audio Cassettes (Audio Cassette) ... www.amazon.com/October-Surprise-Americas-Hostages-Election/dp/0812919890 - 243k - Cached - Similar pages NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Iranian hostage crisisOn the day of President Reagan's inauguration, the hostages were freed in exchange for the unfreezing of Iranian assets (the hostages were released minutes ... www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Iranian-hostage-crisis - 43k - Cached - Similar pages 1980: Ronald Reagan goes to Washington: the Iranian hostage crisis ...On Election Day, Reagan beat Carter by nearly 10 percentage points in the ... And with the hostages still in Iran, voters swung to Reagan in a big way. ... findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_9_136/ai_n17206682 - 49k - Cached - Similar pages The ConsortiumSkeletons of an election controversy past -- the alleged Reagan-Bush "October Surprise" ... President Carter's efforts to free 52 American hostages in Iran. ... www.consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages Iran hostage crisis - dKosopedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Burgold, None of your quotes from those books/archives actually show how Reagan meddled... Can you provide a portion of the text that supports your argument? I'm sure it is buried somewhere in the links you have provided, but it would certainly help if you produce the parts of the text that have helped form your opinion. BTW... This is more proof that Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty of going off topic when their own candidate comes under fire. Let's defend Barack Obama's actions by pointing out Ronald Reagan's!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Don't have time to do really in depth research, but Reagan's was one of the big October surprises. I actually didn't read the article (shame on me) but what I remember is that everyone was justifiably criticizing Obama for not having gone to Iraq. He went. Within that trip, he arranged to meet with the leaders of Iraq. He left with a framework for agreement for peace that Maliki agreed with and Bush soon signed onto at least verbally. Did Obama jump the chain of command? Maybe so, but if Maliki and Bush are in accord and it moves us towards peace and making sure our service men and women are safe, isn't that the most important thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 What do people think Obama and McCain were going to talk about when they both met with Maliki?? It wasn't going to be about the weather. Bush has been a lame duck for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 i'm shocked that as mccain and the republicans are making an effort to convince people that obama is a terrorist sleeper cell the washington times prints a story that is months old and embellishes the **** out of it. shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Agreed Hersh. McCain has made mention of his trips to Iraq. I'd be willing to bet he also talked about what his aims would be in Iraq if elected. Ultimately, I think this is another non-issue issue being thrown wholesale against the wall in the desperate hope that something, anything will stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Reagan did the same thing to Carter with the endgame of the Iran hostage crisis. Uh, IMO, . . . It would be more appropriate to say "There were politically motivated attempts to start the completely false rumor that Reagan did the same thing." IMO, both sets of smear are completely unbelievable, and for exactly the same reasons. During the hostage crisis, Reagan had no power whatsoever, and therefore had nothing that he could bribe the Ayatollah with. (And the Ayatollah certainly had no political motive, on his own, to get Jimmy Carter to lose the election.) Reagan was an unemployed former politician, who was one of many Republicans who were fighting for a chance to attempt to run against an incumbent President. And in '04, Obama had how much power with which to bargain with the Iraqis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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