Go Deep Young Man!

[RyansRangers]

the only way we are going to the playoffs is if we take chances. Just like we did at the begining of the year. Throw Deep, throw on odd downs, throw medium routes, throw the ball on fades toward the sideline.

[Ghent]

I haven't read this entire thread so this may have already be brought up but why doesn't play action work for us? With such a strong running game you'd think that play action could open up our passing game with a few deep balls. Are teams just not worried about us going deep or is JC not selling it well enough?

I think play action is the only way we're going going deep because we have an O-Line that can't protect the quarterback and a quarterback that has problems feeling pressure and buying more time in the pocket.

[SirClintonPortis]

I love it when fans decide to tell the QB to do the retarded thing and throw into a situation with a high percentage chance of being picked off. Sometimes I wish JC gets a 5-pick game just so that fans start to whine that he doesn't check down often enough.

Also, Zorn calls deep plays more often than they are actually executed.

[Chump Bailey]

Won't happen unless we do better mixing it up on 1st and 2nd down conversions and getting good yards while doing them of course. The protection is not holding up for the short stuff. No way it will hold up long enough for our WR's to get seperation and allow for the long plays to develop - even with the shotgun. The protection has to get better and that is most of the problem.

[darrelgreenie]

I love it when fans decide to tell the QB to do the retarded thing and throw into a situation with a high percentage chance of being picked off. Sometimes I wish JC gets a 5-pick game just so that fans start to whine that he doesn't check down often enough.

Also, Zorn calls deep plays more often than they are actually executed.

Hey bro, READ THE OP before you post!

[darrelgreenie]

Won't happen unless we do better mixing it up on 1st and 2nd down conversions and getting good yards while doing them of course. The protection is not holding up for the short stuff. No way it will hold up long enough for our WR's to get seperation and allow for the long plays to develop - even with the shotgun. The protection has to get better and that is most of the problem.

I think you are exaggerating the struggles on the offense line quite a bit.

I do agree that protection is part of the problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/17/AR2008111703289.html

But on this play, the protection was perfect.

"It was executed well," Zorn said. "It was thrown well. He had to go to heroics to make the catch."

"We took one shot," Moss said. "You have to take shots to really make big plays, you know what I'm saying? That's plain and simple. When you're a receiver in this game, you just don't [say], 'Here's your chance, and let's go.' I feel like you have to have opportunities to make big plays."

The Seahawks have one of the worst secondaries in the NFL. I'm looking for a increase in the downfield attempts this game. Zorn, Campbell and the Pass Protection have got to step up and attack the Seahawks week secondary.

Do you think its happens today?

Will the Skins attempt more passes of the 11-20 yd range?

[Chump Bailey]

I think you are exaggerating the struggles on the offense line quite a bit.

I don't think i'm exaggerating in the least DG. That play, the protection was sound - intermittent sound pass protection does not lend to much success in any system IMO. The protection is not holding and Zorn has alluded to that as the primary concern. Sure - there are other variables to consider such as:

Better 1st and 2nd down conversions and utilizing the pass more in such situations to keep the defense spread put as much as applicable.

Missed assignments

Mr. Murphy

Samuels not being 100%

And yes JC's decision making

IMO, the majority of the problem lies in our five OL's inability to win one on one battles and adequately protect JC. There is pressure coming everywhere especially in the middle and the right side of the line.

I do feel this will be a tough game to win - even with the loss of Kearney. They still have guys that can get to the QB such as Tapp.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think i'm exaggerating in the least DG. That play, the protection was sound - intermittent sound pass protection does not lend to much success in any system IMO. The protection is not holding and Zorn has alluded to that as the primary concern.

I know the pass protection is a concern. But, you said that we can't even throw 3 step drops and that just ain't true bro.

The protection is not holding up for the short stuff. No way it will hold up long enough for our WR's to get seperation and allow for the long plays to develop - even with the shotgun. The protection has to get better and that is most of the problem.

[CHERRYR]

There were a total of 74 snaps in 10 offensive series yesterday for the Skins and only (5) 'deep' passing attempts (20+ yds.) out of 33 passes of which only one was completed to Moss for 20 yds. (Moss' longest of 24 came on a short pass). The (4) incompletions were Moss (2) Kelly (1) & Thrash (1). JC was sacked (3) times, one was negated by a Seattle DL offsides penalty. One of the other sacks resulted in a fumble that could have easily flipped the outcome of the game had not Samuels recovered it on the Skins 7 yd. line. The Skins are no threat to stretch the field and the ability to rally in the 4th down 2 TDs or more is practically non-existant. The odds say that a rally would come from CP or Moss with YAC off a short/intermediate pass. 85% of your passing game going short is a bit too conservative in any WCO, IMO... completing only one deep ball for 20 yds. is horrid. I'm sure that Zorn AND Bugle know where the main concern is. :logo: HTTR

[darrelgreenie]

There were a total of 74 snaps in 10 offensive series yesterday for the Skins and only (5) 'deep' passing attempts (20+ yds.) out of 33 passes of which only one was completed to Moss for 20 yds. (Moss' longest of 24 came on a short pass). The (4) incompletions were Moss (2) Kelly (1) & Thrash (1). JC was sacked (3) times, one was negated by a Seattle DL offsides penalty. One of the other sacks resulted in a fumble that could have easily flipped the outcome of the game had not Samuels recovered it on the Skins 7 yd. line. The Skins are no threat to stretch the field and the ability to rally in the 4th down 2 TDs or more is practically non-existant. The odds say that a rally would come from CP or Moss with YAC off a short/intermediate pass. 85% of your passing game going short is a bit too conservative in any WCO, IMO... completing only one deep ball for 20 yds. is horrid. I'm sure that Zorn AND Bugle know where the main concern is. :logo: HTTR

Nice work,CHERRYR thanks for the addition.

The Seahawks have one of the worst pass defenses in the league and we still only took 5 chances downfield? :doh:

IMO we are leaving alot of yards out there by not attacking in the 11-20 yd range more.

Downfield attempts:

(I include the intermediate passes like the pass to *Cooley as a downfield attempt. 11-20 yd range)

1st QTR

1-10-WAS 39 (6:32) J.Campbell pass deep right to S.Moss to SEA 41 for 20 yards (B.Russell).

1-10-WAS 24 (:52) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to S.Moss (J.Wilson).

2nd QTR

1-10-SEA 37 (9:17) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to M.Kelly.

3-20-SEA 35 (6:44) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to S.Moss.

PENALTY on SEA-K.Jennings, Defensive Pass Interference, 21 yards, enforced at SEA 35 - No Play.

*1-10-WAS 32 (:21) J.Campbell pass short middle to C.Cooley to WAS 45 for 13 yards (J.Wilson). P12

Timeout #2 by WAS at 00:15.

3-10-WAS 45 (:03) (Shotgun) J.Campbell pass incomplete deep left to J.Thrash (D.Grant).

*All the downfield attempts occured in the 1st half*

[darrelgreenie]

Jason Campbells Passing attempts by distance in the air:

Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds att: 165

Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds att: 42

Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds att: 11

Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds att: 3

Pass Thrown: 41+ yds at:t 5

The Seahawks have one of the worst secondaries in the NFL. I'm looking for a increase in the downfield attempts this game. Zorn, Campbell and the Pass Protection have got to step up and attack the Seahawks week secondary.

Campbell averages 4.2 pass attempts in 11-20 yd range

Today is the prime day to attack downfield (11-20+ yd) and i think they'll get it done.

Thoughts?

Update Post Seattle Game:

Pass Thrown: Behind the line: 55

Pass Thrown: 1-10 yds att: 186

Pass Thrown: 11-20 yds att: 46

Pass Thrown: 21-30 yds att: 11

Pass Thrown: 31-40 yds att: 3

Pass Thrown: 41+ yds at:t 6

*3-8-WAS 22 (13:38) J.Campbell pass incomplete short left to S.Moss (K.Jennings).

^^(11-20 yds) Deep Comeback, perfect example of the kind of pass plays we should run more often

Total: 6 pass attempts greater then 10 yds

C'mon JC/Zorn we're getting closer.....

[illone]

Bill Walsh had the luxury of a above average if not great offensive line.

No offense can run properly without protection. If Campbell had more time in the pocket he'd be going deep WAY more than he currently does.

Trust me, the Skins oline is not close to what the niners had in the 80's.

[darrelgreenie]

Bill Walsh had the luxury of a above average if not great offensive line.

No offense can run properly without protection. If Campbell had more time in the pocket he'd be going deep WAY more than he currently does.

Trust me, the Skins oline is not close to what the niners had in the 80's.

Saying that the Skins line is not close to the niners of the '80 is an understatement. I agree 100%.

But, the Skins line isn't horrible either. Most of the time they give JC adequate time in the pocket.

Are they good enough to handle 5 & 7 step drops 50 times a game? No. But they are IMO good enough to attempt more passes greater then 10 yards downfield then they do now? Yes.

The Seattle game was encouraging because JC/Zorn showed a willingness to take shots downfield. It showed that the o-line could hold up and that JC wasn't afraid to dial-up the long ball. IMO the discouraging aspects of the passing game was that they took 0 attempts downfield in the second half and they intermediate passing game was absent.

[jdixon77]

I agree, they should try to roll Jason out more, that should give him the time to go down field, but it seems he is a little to content with the short pass. Not sure why but he seems to make the decision to let the ball go to early in many cases, this may very well be Zorn's coaching as much as Jason's learning curve with the offense.

And the short passes are not going to be effective with Clinton running so well, since D's tend to bring a saftey down who is then close to the line of scrimage and will break on the short passes in the absence of a run play. They should definatley try to take more shots down field, even if JC just over throws the recievers in good coverage, this will at least let the D know he is looking down field and back them off a bit.

[deejaydana]

I have been thinking the past couple games how exceedingly conservative we seem to be regards throwing anything deep (this is tempered by the fact that we haven't been strong in defending JC to set up shop and have some time to throw).

If things get out of hand against the Giants, shouldn't we just open it up and throw deep to all our WRs even the rooks?

[jdixon77]

If things get out of hand against the Giants, shouldn't we just open it up and throw deep to all our WRs even the rooks?

I somewhat agree but we can't just make up plays during the game, we should stick to our game plan and we will, after all it has been somewhat effective. Zorn should include some multiple down field routes out of the 5 wide set in practice this week. So yes we should but Zorn will have to have the players prepared for those plays before they get there. But I doubt he's gonna want to get in a shoot out with the Giants.

[Wahoo Hoosier]

If things get out of hand against the Giants, shouldn't we just open it up and throw deep to all our WRs even the rooks?

Yea, that strategy is called Madden 2009... and never works. Because what happened last week when the Giants KNEW the Cardinals were going to throw every down. Warner got jacked up time and time again, intercepted twice.. because the Giants knew it was coming.

If you start throwing every down, the game is over and you have lost.

[illone]

But, the Skins line isn't horrible either. Most of the time they give JC adequate time in the pocket.

Are they good enough to handle 5 & 7 step drops 50 times a game? No. But they are IMO good enough to attempt more passes greater then 10 yards downfield then they do now? Yes.

We'll have to see, DG. It all depends on who they are playing. When faced with a dominating front 7, the Skins oline looks weak and helpless. Against Seattle, which are currently a horrible defensive football team, the Skins looked average and scored 20 points, not very good IMO.

Skins oline is average. Hopefully they play ABOVE average on Sunday.

[veteranskinsfan]

We may have an overall better team but not a better passing game and the passing game is the topic of this thread. Like i said above our downfield passing attempts (passes greater then 11 yards) is the lowest of the 'WCO' based passing attacks. Its just something to watch as the season progresses. IMO its an area for improvement to become an elite offense and we have the personnel to excell in this area.

I agree with you that our down field passing game is woeful right now

and in order to beat Dallas and the Giants we are going to need to make more first downs and stretch their secondaries with longer throws. Sometimes you can get pass interference penalties even when a long throw does not pan out.

[darrelgreenie]

Dude, i gotta hand it to Jason Garrett he really knows how to attack in the passing game. I hate being jealous of the Cowboys for anything. But, it seemed like the majority of their passes are thrown at least 10 or more yards downfield. I wonder if Zorn and Campbell were watching that game too?

[illone]

Dude, i gotta hand it to Jason Garrett he really knows how to attack in the passing game. I hate being jealous of the Cowboys for anything. But, it seemed like the majority of their passes are thrown at least 10 or more yards downfield. I wonder if Zorn and Campbell were watching that game too?

That's easier said than done.

To me the skins just need that extra 1/2 second in the pocket. Or Campbell to scramble more;).

Malcolm Kelley doesn't hurt, either. How many wanna bet that Zorn runs fade to the strong side in this game?

[Spartacus87]

That's easier said than done.

To me the skins just need that extra 1/2 second in the pocket. Or Campbell to scramble more;).

Malcolm Kelley doesn't hurt, either. How many wanna bet that Zorn runs fade to the strong side in this game?

I'm sure we'll see Kelly get involved, but I hope they're practicing those fade routes this week a lot.

I'd be wary of trying that again against the Giants if Campbell/Kelly can't work out the kinks between them beforehand. Aaron Ross will make that pick in the endzone that the Seattle corner didn't on that play.

[wildbill1952]

3 step drops, 5 step drops, 7 step drops. Although the receivers may run different routes, the QB is going to be doing one of these 3. More steps = longer passes. As Zorn has explained before, when he doesn't have protection on 3 step drops (a very quick pass) he doesn't have the luxury of calling 7 step drops (takes longer for play to develop). Give Campbell a great O-Line and he can can take a lounge chair into the backfield and wait for all the receivers to get open, like Romo sits to pee does. In the meantime, the slower developing plays are called less often.

Like it was explained before last year's draft: it doesn't matter who your receivers are if your QB doesn't have time and room to throw. We'll have a great offense only after we draft great O-Linemen.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Dude, i gotta hand it to Jason Garrett he really knows how to attack in the passing game. I hate being jealous of the Cowboys for anything. But, it seemed like the majority of their passes are thrown at least 10 or more yards downfield. I wonder if Zorn and Campbell were watching that game too?

I HATE HATE HATE to say this, but Dallas has better offensive personnel. Not across the board, but in general:

• Their O-Line is better, specifically at Pass blocking, but they are no slouches at Run Blocking, when they want to run.
  
• The combination of Ownes/Rogers/(Crayton or Austin) is better than Moss/whoever else lines up across from him.
  
• TE, I think Cooley is every bit as good as Whitten or even better, so we get the nod there, but Whitten is a weapon.
  
• RB, Portis is better than Barber, but Barber is a weapon.
  

I'm not even going to get into the QB debate. I will say that if you put JC in that offense, he'd thrive.

So what you have is a good O-Line and every skill position player is a weapon. We just don't have that. We might, next year, if they upgrade the O-Line a little and Thomas/Kelly develop. But right now, we just don't match up personnel wise, so they can do a lot of different things that we just CAN'T do.

[SirClintonPortis]

Dude, i gotta hand it to Jason Garrett he really knows how to attack in the passing game. I hate being jealous of the Cowboys for anything. But, it seemed like the majority of their passes are thrown at least 10 or more yards downfield. I wonder if Zorn and Campbell were watching that game too?

For most of the first half, Seattle was using a four-man rush that could not get a bit of pressure on Romo sits to pee. Virtually none whatsoever. Combine that with TO, Williams, and Witten as the triple threat and Seattle's defense not playing well, they pretty much could go deep as much as they want to until the Seattle D adjusted a bit. Also, Garrett's offense isn't the WCO and is based on the intermediate passing game.