Who won the VP debates?

[Smoot Point Really]

Not at all.

The only posters that I ever call trolls are the handful who have repeatedly acted like trolls. You know, the ones who regularly get put on the "no new threads" list by the moderators.

Sorry, I don't know anyone who fits that description... I guess that is why I was asking my question.

I know I've heard you call me a troll on numerous occasions, but I've never been put on the NNT list. I'm not trying to be rude or overly critical here. I think when people disagree on topics, calling them a troll is the beginning of the end for your argument. You lose points when you do this. You may get pats on the back from a few anonymous people who share your views, but overall it doesn't reflect well and you wouldn't act in such a way if you were engaging someone in a debate face-to-face. I say let the moderators do their job and separate the "reasonable" trolls from the "unreasonable" trolls.

Anyway, you are a smart guy... I'm sure you can think of better and more descriptive terms in these situations than "troll". To me, the word was probably coined by a pimply-faced kid who hasn't had to deal with too many real human relationships.

[81artmonk]

Here's what Corcaigh and DanT were trying to get through to you. It's not that you hold a different opinion than they do. Rather, it's that you drive by, state a far right opinion without any justification and then expect others to just accept it at face value.

The really ironic thing is that you accuse others of being brainwashed when they're the ones justifying their opinions with objective reasoning while you aren't. Go figure.

Well see that's your opinion. And what exactly do you mean drive by?? Are you saying that I don't read any of the posts and just mouth off without any idea what's being talked about??

But if you are saying that I say things or state opinions same as others than yes.

I never said that others are brainwashed. Check your facts. Which I might add most people on here don't do.

Anyway, I said that people expect everyone to think the way they do and anyone who doesn't is labeled like I have been. Your point that I am far to one side is really irrelevant, since everyone is intitled to their opinion and regardless of what it is, doesn't mean it's any less valid than someone elses.

However, that doesn't apply here on the board, since anyone with an opinion far away from mainstream thought is labeled and ridiculed.

[GSF]

:

:silly:

Honestly the only balanced posters on this board would be ones that would have not voted the same party in every election.

The question would be how many of those exist here on Extreme??

Like Zoed, I also fit into that category. I am not a republican or a democrat. I voted for Clinton twice and GW Bush twice(though I regret that vote now).

Early in this campaign, I was leaning towards McCain. Like many, I just couldnt' figure out what Obama stood for other then "change"...but change to what? I've always like McCain because I consider him to be a moderate conservative which I guess probably falls closest to my political beliefs. Had McCain chose another modern thinking, moderate conservative, like Rudy, he'd probably have my vote by now, but his choice of Palin was absolutely terrible imo. I simply cannot vote for anyone who believes that man and dinosaurs walked the earth together 6000 years ago and that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape and incest. When asked by Couric if a teenage girl who was raped by her uncle should be allowed to have an abortion she said she would counsel the girl. Palin is a right wing goofball who is woefully unqualified for the postion of VP and is borderline incompetent. The cutsie, folksy act does nothing for me. I need to have confidence in my leader, and while I'm not super high on Obama or Biden, I have ZERO confidence in Palin. MCCain used very poor judgement in selecting Palin imo and it makes me question his judgement in general. When the media was interviewing Rudy after the first debates I kept thinking about how smart and confident he sounded, basically the opposite of Palin. Had McCain chosen Rudy or someone like him, he'd be in a much better position right now imo.

[GSF]

Well see that's your opinion. And what exactly do you mean drive by?? Are you saying that I don't read any of the posts and just mouth off without any idea what's being talked about??

But if you are saying that I say things or state opinions same as others than yes.

I never said that others are brainwashed. Check your facts. Which I might add most people on here don't do.

Anyway, I said that people expect everyone to think the way they do and anyone who doesn't is labeled like I have been. Your point that I am far to one side is really irrelevant, since everyone is intitled to their opinion and regardless of what it is, doesn't mean it's any less valid than someone elses.

However, that doesn't apply here on the board, since anyone with an opinion far away from mainstream thought is labeled and ridiculed.

I think the problem that people are having with you in this thread is that you refuse to acknowledge an obvious and blatant truth when it conflicts with your "opinion". Biden was obviously choked up, not confused or lost from his train of thought.

We all make mistakes or misinterpret things. Most people will say soemthing like, "oh I didn't realize that" when it's pointed out to them that missed something. You dig in and say we all have a right to our opinions.

[DixieFlatline]

I simply cannot vote for anyone who believes that man and dinosaurs walked the earth together 6000 years ago and that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape and incest. When asked by Couric if a teenage girl who was raped by her uncle should be allowed to have an abortion she said she would counsel the girl.

I guess you missed the part where she said she wouldn't want to see anyone go to jail because they got an abortion.

[Predicto]

Sorry, I don't know anyone who fits that description... I guess that is why I was asking my question.

I know I've heard you call me a troll on numerous occasions, but I've never been put on the NNT list. I'm not trying to be rude or overly critical here. I think when people disagree on topics, calling them a troll is the beginning of the end for your argument. You lose points when you do this. You may get pats on the back from a few anonymous people who share your views, but overall it doesn't reflect well and you wouldn't act in such a way if you were engaging someone in a debate face-to-face. I say let the moderators do their job and separate the "reasonable" trolls from the "unreasonable" trolls.

Anyway, you are a smart guy... I'm sure you can think of better and more descriptive terms in these situations than "troll". To me, the word was probably coined by a pimply-faced kid who hasn't had to deal with too many real human relationships.

Troll is a very specific term. I do not use it solely because I disagree with someone on an issue.

I disagree all the time with H_H, Zguy, techboy, keeastman, PokerPacker. BigMike, ZoEd, prophet, twa, PleaseBlitz, MassSkins, Sarge, and innumerable others. I never call any of them trolls, because they discuss things with some intellectual honesty. They acknowledge points made by other people. They admit when their facts are incorrect or questionable, or at least stop repeating them. They don't bring up points in new threads that have been refuted in other threads. In short, they act like adults.

A troll on the internet is a poster who raises baseless or irrelevant arguments just to evoke a hostile reaction and sticks with them through thick or thin. Only a tiny few Tailgate posters have earned this distinction.

[GSF]

I guess you missed the part where she said she wouldn't want to see anyone go to jail because they got an abortion.

I guess I did. I did miss a few parts going to the bathroom and dealing with the kids. I'm referring to the Couric interview when Katie asked her very directly and Palin replied she would counsel the child.

To me, telling a rape victim it is illegal to have a baby that they don't won't is barbaric, and forcing a religious view(Christian) on someone that doesn't necessarily agree with that religious view. I think it's unamerican and unfair.

[IHOPSkins]

UPDATE:

Debate analysis: Palin spoke at 10th-grade level, Biden at eighth

(CNN) -- An analysis carried out by a language monitoring service said Friday that Gov. Sarah Palin spoke at a more than ninth-grade level and Sen. Joseph Biden spoke at a nearly eighth-grade level in Thursday night's debate between the vice presidential candidates.....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.words/?iref=mpstoryview

[GSF]

I just rewatched the couric clip, and she does say that she wouldn't want anyone to go to jail for having an abortion, but she also says, in a very roundabout way, that abortion would be illegal even for the 15 year old rape victim. Now, she may not put the victim in jail, but how will the victim get a safe abortion if they are illegal?

Clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsNl4c_YyM

[Barney B]

When the media was interviewing Rudy after the first debates I kept thinking about how smart and confident he sounded, basically the opposite of Palin. Had McCain chosen Rudy or someone like him, he'd be in a much better position right now imo.

I've always liked McCain - even when he's wrong - and if he'd done as you've said, he'd have had a much better chance of getting my vote. Or, if he'd chosen from a number of well-qualified female candidates for VP, he'd have made this election a very tough call for me.

Instead, he serves up an aspiring theocrat. So I'm praying to God to keep her out of the White House.

Because if she wins, we could be up to our crucifixes in creationist politicians.

.

[GSF]

I've always liked McCain - even when he's wrong - and if he'd done as you've said, he'd have had a much better chance of getting my vote. Or, if he'd chosen from a number of well-qualified female candidates for VP, he'd have made this election a very tough call for me.

Instead, he serves up an aspiring theocrat. So I'm praying to God to keep her out of the White House.

Because if she wins, we could be up to our crucifixes in creationist politicians.

.

Yup, I feel the same way.

[NavyDave]

Palin Won. However Biden didn't really lose by that much. Both stretched the truth in some areas.

Palin will provide a little bumpfor the conservaties andsomeof the independants. McCain can not come out looking and sounding like the Family Guy's Cleveland next time

[GSF]

There is something interesting if you read through the fact check of the debate. Both candidates got several things wrong. Biden appears to have flip-flopped on his views about clean coal, and he took some liberties stretching the truth when talking about McCain's voting record or what McCain said about meeting with leaders from Spain. Palin, though got some hard facts wrong that are very pertinent to the state of our country and economy.

-Palin said that we were at pre-surge troop levels in Iraq. There are actually 14,000 more troops in Iraq than there were before the surge. Palin said McCain's health care plan was budget neutral. Experts predict that the plan will actually cost us $1.6 trillion over 10 years. Palin said that Obama's tax plan would cause millions of small business owners to have tax increases. In actuality, several hundred thousand small business owners at most would experience tax increases under Obama's plan.

Both candidates said several things that were untrue, but Biden's were mostly about the voting records of the various candidates. Palin's were about the issues. That's a big difference to me.

[NavyDave]

Why does the enemy needs to know the size of our troop level in that area.

Experts have been proven wrong when it comes to projections time and time again.

Health care has to promote competition among the providers to reduce cost not just having government writing a check

[GSF]

Why does the enemy needs to know the size of our troop level in that area.

Experts have been proven wrong when it comes to projections time and time again.

Health care has to promote competition among the providers to reduce cost not just having government writing a check

You're missing the point Dave. If you don't want the enemy to know the number of troops in Iraq then say so, but don't lie to the American public about how many are there. This is 1 of the most important issues to Americans in this election, and she flat out lied about how many troops are in Iraq.

As far as experts estimating the number of small businesses that would experience tax increases under Obama's plan, that wouldn't be to hard to figure out.

I'm not sure how your comments about healthcare are even relevant to Palin's claims that McCain's healthcare plan is budget neutral.

Palin was far from the truth on some very important issues.

[EersSkins05]

UPDATE:

Debate analysis: Palin spoke at 10th-grade level, Biden at eighth

(CNN) -- An analysis carried out by a language monitoring service said Friday that Gov. Sarah Palin spoke at a more than ninth-grade level and Sen. Joseph Biden spoke at a nearly eighth-grade level in Thursday night's debate between the vice presidential candidates.....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.words/?iref=mpstoryview

What is the point of this? The average American reads at an 8th grade level. So it makes sense for Biden to speak in a vice-presidential debate at an 8th grade level.

Just because Palin's talking points contained 10th grade level words doesn't indicate anything about her intelligence or lack thereof.

[ZoEd]

What is the point of this? The average American reads at an 8th grade level. So it makes sense for Biden to speak in a vice-presidential debate at an 8th grade level.

Just because Palin's talking points contained 10th grade level words doesn't indicate anything about her intelligence or lack thereof.

Guess Biden did a better job relating to the "god and guns" crowd then.

[81artmonk]

I think the problem that people are having with you in this thread is that you refuse to acknowledge an obvious and blatant truth when it conflicts with your "opinion". Biden was obviously choked up, not confused or lost from his train of thought.

We all make mistakes or misinterpret things. Most people will say soemthing like, "oh I didn't realize that" when it's pointed out to them that missed something. You dig in and say we all have a right to our opinions.

Isn't what your saying hypocritical?? You tell me something you see as obvious, and than tell me I need to see it that way too or you and others will view me as radical. Others have posted of me that I have my right to view this my way, and left it at that. While others like you are basically demanding that I see it your way and I am dishonest if I don't acknowledge that fact. I will say, that may have been the case with biden, but I just didn't see that way, and after watching the video even another time, I still don't see it that way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it DOESN'T go along with the majority!!!!!

I have seen the video live, again online and another time from a poster who linked it for me to watch, and to me, it doesn't look like he's getting choked up.

How is that me digging in. So if I get you right, I have to see it your way or the way others see it and go along with the mob.....mob rules??

It has nothing to do with politics at this point, and all about how I saw what happened. Why do I have to change my viewpoint souly based on what others have said I should have seen??

[GSF]

Isn't what your saying hypocritical?? You tell me something you see as obvious, and than tell me I need to see it that way too or you and others will view me as radical. Others have posted of me that I have my right to view this my way, and left it at that. While others like you are basically demanding that I see it your way and I am dishonest if I don't acknowledge that fact. I will say, that may have been the case with biden, but I just didn't see that way, and after watching the video even another time, I still don't see it that way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it DOESN'T go along with the majority!!!!!

I have seen the video live, again online and another time from a poster who linked it for me to watch, and to me, it doesn't look like he's getting choked up.

How is that me digging in. So if I get you right, I have to see it your way or the way others see it and go along with the mob.....mob rules??

It has nothing to do with politics at this point, and all about how I saw what happened. Why do I have to change my viewpoint souly based on what others have said I should have seen??

Noone in the media or in here shares your "opinion". All of the media is referring to it as Biden getting choked up.

[EersSkins05]

I have seen the video live, again online and another time from a poster who linked it for me to watch, and to me, it doesn't look like he's getting choked up.

Your perception sucks.

[2006Skins]

I don't see how anyone can honestly say Biden won. He lied in so many areas, including his own quote when he said "never any coal." Palin proved she could stand up to the experienced dc senator. The same way Obama proved he could stand up to McCain on the floor.

[portisMVP]

I don't see how anyone can honestly say Biden won. He lied in so many areas, including his own quote when he said "never any coal." Palin proved she could stand up to the experienced dc senator. The same way Obama proved he could stand up to McCain on the floor.

Why can't Palin even follow the flow of the debate. When cornered on McCain voting to deregulate Wall Street which lead us to this mess, she skirted around the issue and instead said she will talk straight to the American people. Palin is worthless and you are a fool if you fall for her folksy 5-year-old colloqialisms.

[ZoEd]

colloqialisms.

Whoa, that's way above my 8th grade reading level. Simmer down with the webster necessary words. :applause:

[EersSkins05]

Whoa, that's way above my 8th grade reading level. Simmer down with the webster necessary words. :applause:

Now now, while it's understood that most AVERAGE americans read on an 8th grade level, Redskins fans read on a post-graduate degree level.

[IHOPSkins]

......but Biden's were mostly about the voting records of the various candidates.....

Oh......and something called the CONSTITUTION

Roles reversed? The Liberal Media Headline.......

"Senator of 35 years, doesn't know Constitution"

Bidens Million / Billion mix up wasn't good either....

CNNs meter tanked when Biden showed his casual fiscal attitude for another 3 zeros