Jesse Helms has passed away.

[Kosher Ham]

This reminds me of when Strom Thurmond's nigra love child came to light.

No one wanted to call him what he was: a rapist.

"That's just the way things were then."

"Hell' date=' you were expected to have sex with black servants then..."[/quote']

Met Strom on 2 occasions. He was indeed an ass. It was amazing that people loved him so much.

[joeknows]

if helms was merely a man with these opinions i would say RIP....

however he was a man that served a governing body and no doubt used his opinions to shape laws that affected society as a whole and those opinions he had are a detriment to all.....

msf a bigot? nahhhhhhh i would never had guessed.......

thats the issue i have with conservative fascists......... the attitude that what they believe should be force upon society despite the fact that society as a whole is more intelligent and the fact that freedom doesnt mean freedom to do what YOU think is right.......

[Kosher Ham]

People do have the freedom to do what they think is right.

As long as it doesn't break any laws.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

People do have the freedom to do what they think is right.

As long as it doesn't break any laws.

And Helms pushed for laws that tried to make his personal bigotries the law of the land.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I'm not going to defend Kennedy.

Good. You've always seemed to be much smarter than that when we've talked in the past' date=' Lkb.

You have every right to believe that faggots should die for their sins. That doesn't make you God.

Helms saw his role in the Senate as that of a vengeful God.

I know my beliefs don't make me God, but I also know that the role of a US Senator is to attempt to do what he believes is in the best interest of his constituents and the country as a whole.

Lkb, and you think I would legislate any differently than Senator Helms if I were in the United States Senate right now?

I'm shocked!

Sarcasm doesn't look good on you BRAVE.

SOME white folks. More, than many would like to believe, less than others would like to believe.

Living in Boston/Hartford, certainly there is racism, and it is sad more than anything.

It is what is was, KH. These people grew up in a very different world that the one you and I did. The causes for racism today are very different than the ones in our grandparent's generation. I'm not saying either are right... they're not... but they are what they are. Our generation has less of it because we grew up in a much more integrated society. Hopefully the next generations will be even better about it. I just have a hard time condemning people for not being able to flip a switch and lose the prejudices that were ingrained in them in their youth.

[Teller]

Don't dare hold a different opinion than a liberal.

That's a sin worse than driving your date off a bridge to her death.

*****

Oh, and perhaps those of you searching for something nice to say should call Madeline Albright to find out what she saw in him.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Lkb, and you think I would legislate any differently than Senator Helms if I were in the United States Senate right now?

I know you think queers should die. You think everyone should die. You are a remarkably unpleasant human being.

But you are weirdly fascinating to talk to.

It is what is was, KH. These people grew up in a very different world that the one you and I did. The causes for racism today are very different than the ones in our grandparent's generation. I'm not saying either are right... they're not... but they are what they are. Our generation has less of it because we grew up in a much more integrated society. Hopefully the next generations will be even better about it. I just have a hard time condemning people for not being able to flip a switch and lose the prejudices that were ingrained in them in their youth.

They grew up in a world were black people were lynched for looing at white women the wrong way. I'm not so quick to forgive that.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Don't dare hold a different opinion than a liberal.

That's a sin worse than driving your date off a bridge to her death.

It's not an opinion when it becomes law.

Jesse Helms made it more difficult to be black or gay in these country.

[Fergasun]

Allright, I hope this is my last post or even peak into this thread as it's a trainwreck of a mess

Helms was elected to represent the people of North Carolina (by slim margins). Regardless of the controversy of his opinions, a majority of people voting for him chose to have this guy elected as Senator! The American south was a hot-bed of activity for "racists bigots". That is freakin' history, and gee... people aren't always so welcoming and nice to people they fear or people who are unknown to them. Jesse Helms was elected in 1 state, his views represented a narrow part of the country... we didn't have a Senate full of Jesse Helms.

So he was able to spout off his personal views because he was elected to the Senate, name one piece of legislation he passed through that changed the country? Does his legacy matter other than being a character portrayed through the media like a WWF heel? Not everyone is perfect.

I'd really like to see the point where I said, "everyone was a racist", or "everyone slept with their slaves back then"... who cares, its a different era... its called "then" and "now".

I only jumped in this thread to point out that he was elected by people who must be similar to him, and there are people who agree with his viewpoints. Just because someone is controversial doesn't make them right or wrong, or even make them correct, he was controversial, that's why he is known! Controversial alive and dead... but I imagine he's pretty insignificant in the long run of things other than being controversial...

[Teller]

It's not an opinion when it becomes law.

Jesse Helms made it more difficult to be black or gay in these country.

His opinions about AIDS notwithstanding, being anti-gay marriage, for isntance, would put him squarely in the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Americans.

And, um, how did he make it "more difficult to be black."

Was he, or was he not in the senate when institutionalized discrimination AGAINST whites became law?

[Kosher Ham]

You give me the "it is what it is", come on bro, you know me better than that.

People can change, people can learn, people can indeed.

A ton of stuff is taught to you as a kid. Hell, your parents were probably told the Beatles and Elvis was devil music. Rap music is a fad, sucking **** is gay...oh wait that is.

Point is, teenage rebellion is about change and future, and some things we can help and change, others... we are too hard headed to accept same as our parents or grandparents were when we were kids.

That doesn't make them right.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I know you think queers should die. You think everyone should die. You are a remarkably unpleasant human being.

But you are weirdly fascinating to talk to.

Not EVERYONE' date=' Lkb. A vast majority of people, yes, but not everyone.

I'm a remarkably unpleasant human being because I've gotten to see the true hearts of men much less masked than many other people for a very long time. I've seen the EVIL that exists in the hearts and minds of most people, Lkb. We've discussed that in the past.

They grew up in a world were black people were lynched for looing at white women the wrong way. I'm not so quick to forgive that.

You're not so quick to forgive it, but you are apparently quite quick to forget the circumstances surrounding it. I don't agree with what was done and consider it as abhorant as you do. I just seem to take a little longer and wider view of why it happened than you seem to at times.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

His opinions about AIDS notwithstanding, being anti-gay marriage, for isntance, would put him squarely in the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Americans.

Helms stood on the Senate floor and said that gays deserved to die from AIDS.

And, um, how did he make it "more difficult to be black."

You clearly know nothing about his life. So, I'll spare asking you any questions about his career.

"What is happening in America is exactly in tune with the forecasts of Karl Marx. The America which should be concerned by the curtain of communism falling throughout the world is, instead, ripping itself to shreds over a false and completely phony issue called 'integration.' The cackles you hear have a Russian accent."

Integration? A commie plot.

Helms went to his grave saying that there was no racial problem in the South until northern agitators (probably Jewish communists) showed up.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm a remarkably unpleasant human being because I've gotten to see the true hearts of men much less masked than many other people for a very long time. I've seen the EVIL that exists in the hearts and minds of most people, Lkb. We've discussed that in the past.

I love how you talk like someone who survived the Congo. Seriously, what is the sum total of days you've spent outside of New England in your life? 50? 60?

[Teller]

You clearly know nothing about his life. So' date=' I'll spare asking you any questions about his career.[/quote']

Classic.

I ask you a direct question about the BS you spouted, and when you don't have an answer, YOU become condescending.

:laugh:

[joeknows]

I'm a remarkably unpleasant human being because I've gotten to see the true hearts of men much less masked than many other people for a very long time. I've seen the EVIL that exists in the hearts and minds of most people, Lkb. We've discussed that in the past.

we only see the things we look for..........

i have seen some really bad **** through my military experience but at the same time i have seen some of the most beautiful acts that one human can give to another.....

if you look for bad people.... that is what yuou will find.... you can always find the worst in people if you look for it....

the challenge is to look for the best in people........ i am not christian but i think that is part of the message christ tried to teach us.......

[Mass_SkinsFan]

People can change, people can learn, people can indeed.

A ton of stuff is taught to you as a kid. Hell, your parents were probably told the Beatles and Elvis was devil music. Rap music is a fad,.....

Many people can, but for some of us that idea of change just doesn't resonate, KH. For those people it's not a matter of making a decision not to change, but rather a matter of never seeing any reason to even question many of the things they believe and do.

I can say that because I am one of those people. For me there are certain routines and beliefs that are so ingrained that I don't even think about challenging them. From many of my philosophical beliefs to the fact that I won't eat a steak/burger that's cooked less than medium-well. Hell, I didn't even know there WAS any other way to cook steak until I went off to college.

Point is, teenage rebellion is about change and future, and some things we can help and change, others... we are too hard headed to accept same as our parents or grandparents were when we were kids.

That doesn't make them right.

Remember that for some of us there was no teenage rebellion. For some of us there was only the teenage years. That's how it was for me. There was no questioning the authority in the home I grew up in. Just like there wasn't for my father or my grandfather. It doesn't mean that we've got all the answers for the world, but it does mean that we have the answers we believe are correct and that we're going to go with.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Classic.

I ask you a direct question about the BS you spouted, and when you don't have an answer, YOU become condescending.

:laugh:

He spent the entirety of the 60s going on tv and the radio and defended segregation. He called civil rights workers Communists. He made indirect calls for violence against them.

[pvkeeper19]

The only thing that makes me sad is that a first-class a-hole like Jesse Helms got to live to the happy old age of 86. His complete lack of respect for people who weren't just like him was disgusting.

Good riddance.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I can say that because I am one of those people. For me there are certain routines and beliefs that are so ingrained that I don't even think about challenging them. From many of my philosophical beliefs to the fact that I won't eat a steak/burger that's cooked less than medium-well. Hell, I didn't even know there WAS any other way to cook steak until I went off to college.

So...you have a low IQ. What am I supposed to do about that?

[pvkeeper19]

He spent the entirety of the 60s going on tv and the radio and defended segregation. He called civil rights workers Communists. He made indirect calls for violence against them.

He also made indirect threats of violence against President Clnton when he was in office. The guy was a ****, no two ways about it.

[Teller]

He spent the entirety of the 60s going on tv and the radio and defended segregation. He called civil rights workers Communists. He made indirect calls for violence against them.

Lots of people say stupid **** everyday.

How, specifically, did he "make it more difficult to be black" in this country?

Was he the only one who opposed desegregation? Did he ultimiately win or lose?

In what specific area was he able to successfully affect change that made life as a black American more difficult.

With all respect sir, sincerely, I think that statement was dramatically overblown.

If it wasn't, then Louis Farrakhan has made it significantly more difficult for me to be white in this country.

[joeknows]

So...you have a low IQ. What am I supposed to do about that?

going with what you have learned or been taught doesnt make you ignorant..... refusal to learn more and become enlightened does.......

of course im sure that is what you were getting at........

[Kosher Ham]

MSF, I am not ignoring, just gotta run to the store for a few.

I will respond. I have a couple of reasonable debates regarding your last post or two.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I love how you talk like someone who survived the Congo. Seriously' date=' what is the sum total of days you've spent outside of New England in your life? 50? 60?[/quote']

No, I survived something worse than living outside this country.... I survived growing up with a birth defect that cannot be hidden and that is one of the first things people see when they meet me. There's no way to hide my face and I've gotten to see the true hearts of people over the years because very few people are any good at hiding their reactions to it.

I've probably spent at least a year of my life outside of New England, between extended vacations to the Midwest in my childhood and different trips throughout mostly the eastern half of the country.

we only see the things we look for.......

Not quite true. In truth most of the time we see what is shown to us. Especially when you're talking about children which is where I started with this. Most adults don't try to hide their emotions much around kids and kids definitely don't.

if you look for bad people.... that is what yuou will find.... you can always find the worst in people if you look for it........

When that's the vast majority of what is shown to you, that's most of what you're going to find, joe. I've had mental health professionals that I know tell me that it's almost remarkable that I'm as well adjusted as I am, all things considered.