Lets revisit why we celebrate this day

[SnyderShrugged]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm

[SnyderShrugged]

The true meaning of this declaration is the power and right of the people to hold our government accountable and throw them off when they go beyond the power loaned to them.

This is the spirit of this document and we must never forget what independence meant to our nations founders.

[Burgold]

Basically, we celebrate this day because a bunch of people were crazy enough and ingenious enough to take on the most powerful army and navy in the world at the time and outlasted them. They stood up for liberty, fair taxation and common sense.

or

The reason we celebrate this day... a group of liberals decided that rights and freedom, self-rule were worth the risk of confrontation with the Man (or at least the King). The Conservatives of the day thought the liberals stupid and misguided. They argued that a revolution was lunacy. The wealthy landowners were risking everything and wouldn't gain much if they won. Worse, the Brittish Army is the class of the world and would squash any revolution. And, all this nonsense of about democrasy and inalienable human rights is a bunch of liberal hippy nonsense.

Now, liberals have strayed from their noble roots, but if we had listened to the conservatives of the day we would still be colonists.

[ACW]

Keep in mind, what was called "liberal" back then would be called "libertarian" today.

[Mad Mike]

I feel dumber for having read this thread.

[Burgold]

Keep in mind, what was called "liberal" back then would be called "libertarian" today.

Libertarians are liberals. They just don't know it

[Switchgear]

Libertarians are liberals. They just don't believe in government handouts

Fixed that.

Happy 4th from the Muppets.

[Burgold]

Actually, I don't disagree with that. I think Libertarians can fall under the larger liberal umbrella, because they essentially believe in human liberty as a main priority.

[28rdsknsfn28]

Happy 4th!

That waas great

[Zguy28]

I feel dumber for having read this thread.

That's impossible.

[jrockster21]

Because America rules, and England sucks.

:laugh:

[SnyderShrugged]

I feel dumber for having read this thread.

Yeah, that stupid Declaration of Independence. What an idiotic idea.

[dcnativenerd]

I've been thinking A LOT about those words in red lately.

May God continue to bless this nation.

[ACW]

Actually, I don't disagree with that. I think Libertarians can fall under the larger liberal umbrella, because they essentially believe in human liberty as a main priority.

Small-l unless it's the party. And there's no "essentially."

[Oldskool]

Nice spin but incorrect.

If you get to the heart of the Declaration and the reason why it was written it was simple: Taxation without representation is tyranny.

Every other concept and idea came afterward.

[Burgold]

Nice spin but incorrect.

If you get to the heart of the Declaration and the reason why it was written it was simple: Taxation without representation is tyranny.

Every other concept and idea came afterward.

Only partly correct, that was the heart of the matter that they figured they could get most to agree to immediately. But all of the Intolerable Acts (quartering act etc) were motivators for the Revolution. Money was just the easiest (and probably most important) rallying point, but the ideas of Paine and other liberal rabble rousers seeking life, liberty and the unfettered pursuit of happiness had a role to play in the Revolution coming to be.

[SnyderShrugged]

Nice spin but incorrect.

If you get to the heart of the Declaration and the reason why it was written it was simple: Taxation without representation is tyranny.

Every other concept and idea came afterward.

incorrect

Taxation along with the magna carta and merchantilism, plus a good dose of the Navigation Acts were the primary causes

edit*** To be fair, I also should mention the Alien and sedition acts, the Tea act, the Quartering act etc. some were tyranical foms of taxation but compounded with the other forms of tyrany were all causes.

[Oldskool]

incorrect

Really?

So the stamp, tea etc acts had nothing to do with starting the Revolution? :doh:

Don't know what History books you read...

As I said, this was the impotence of the Revolution and the Declaration.

Only partly correct, that was the heart of the matter that they figured they could get most to agree to immediately. But all of the Intolerable Acts (quartering act etc) were motivators for the Revolution. Money was just the easiest (and probably most important) rallying point, but the ideas of Paine and other liberal rabble rousers seeking life, liberty and the unfettered pursuit of happiness had a role to play in the Revolution coming to be.

But your still getting back to the heart of the matter as I posted; the colonies had no representation therefore got a case of the redass at the Redcoats.

[SnyderShrugged]

Really?

So the stamp, tea etc acts had nothing to do with starting the Revolution? :doh:

Don't know what History books you read...

As I said, this was the impotence of the Revolution and the Declaration.

But your still getting back to the heart of the matter as I posted; the colonies had no representation therefore got a case of the redass at the Redcoats.

see the edit while you were posting acknowledging the importance, yet non exclusivity of them as causes.

I promise I've read many history books and am fully aware of the causes of the revolution as well as the meaning and future intent of the declaration.

[Burgold]

But your still getting back to the heart of the matter as I posted; the colonies had no representation therefore got a case of the redass at the Redcoats.

I think you can have an honest debate that different words in that famous rallying cry carried different weights to the colonists or to those meeting in Philadelphia.

For some-- High Taxation was the rub. Taxes were intolerable and that's what they wanted to address.

For others-- Lack of Representation, losing their homes, the Redcoats and the British Governors trouncing on their rights with no real ability to seek redress was the hot issue.

Combined... having high taxed AND lacking Representation... that is feeling ripped off about the degree of taxation and the infringement of their liberties was "Intolerable"

So, no... twasn't only about the duckets and the taxes. The other ideas especially in the minds of Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams were in there from the start.

[Oldskool]

I think you can have an honest debate that different words in that famous rallying cry carried different weights to the colonists or to those meeting in Philadelphia.

For some-- High Taxation was the rub. Taxes were intolerable and that's what they wanted to address.

For others-- Lack of Representation, losing their homes, the Redcoats and the British Governors trouncing on their rights with no real ability to seek redress was the hot issue.

Combined... having high taxed AND lacking Representation... that is feeling ripped off about the degree of taxation and the infringement of their liberties was "Intolerable"

So, no... twasn't only about the duckets and the taxes. The other ideas especially in the minds of Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams were in there from the start.

I see your point on these and there were many factors driving a wedge between the colonists and the Crown. Many different people had issues such as the boarding of troops, etc.. But it was as true 223 years ago as it is now that you hitting someone in the wallet without representation only trouble will ensue.

The issues that the north had such as taxation and the south had, such as tariffs on good still hint to a colonial wide issue with taxes and representation.

You are correct that it wasn't all about the duckets and the votes but that sure was the fuse that lit the powerkeg.

[Burgold]

You are correct that it wasn't all about the duckets and the votes but that sure was the fuse that lit the powerkeg.

You are correct that it wasn't all about the duckets and the votes but that sure was the fuse that lit the powerkeg.

Well, it was the easiest issue to get people to rally behind.

It certainly was an important issue, but all the hippy liberal stuff was important too. That's why Jefferson put it in there and in fact started with it