So, what exactly would "experience" make Obama do differently?

[SkinsOrlando]

What I hear:

Screw poor people, I don't care.

Not saying thats how you feel, but you can't just get rid of the damn entitlement programs, there are millions of people that rely on them.

They should be relying on themselves, much like the magnet i have at home "Work harder millions on welfare depend on you".

Do you realize how abused the system is? Do you know how many able bodied people do not work because they can receive a free check? I have no issue with "helping" people, I do however take issue with those that abuse the help there given and refuse to help themselves.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

They should be relying on themselves, much like the magnet i have at home "Work harder millions on welfare depend on you".

Do you realize how abused the system is? Do you know how many able bodied people do not work because they can receive a free check? I have no issue with "helping" people, I do however take issue with those that abuse the help there given and refuse to help themselves.

Well then we need to crack down on abuse of the system.

There are people that use it that don't need it, and there are plenty of people who need it.

If you want to push for reform and stricter enforcement of the rules as to prevent abuse then thats just fine.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Again, I don't support Universal Healthcare.

Good. So rather then 28 trillion and 55 trillion PLUS universal healthcare, we just have 28 and 55 trillion

So how do we account for those 2 numbers?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Good. So rather then 28 trillion and 55 trillion PLUS universal healthcare, we just have 28 and 55 trillion

So how do we account for those 2 numbers?

CHANGE!

[SkinsOrlando]

Well then we need to crack down on abuse of the system.

There are people that use it that don't need it, and there are plenty of people who need it.

If you want to push for reform and stricter enforcement of the rules as to prevent abuse then thats just fine.

I've never been in favor of completely dismantling the system, but SEVERE reform needs to happen. Just look at when asthma became an acceptable cause for people to receive SSI for there children(2002 I believe), asthma cases went up 300%. The system has gotten so out of hand there's only one way to fix it. SCRAP the whole damn thing and start over. People on welfare should be forced to take a physical and mental evaluation by "independent" doctors(not there own) and should they pass not they should receive any benefit. This should be done every year they receive benefits.

[PeterMP]

Lincoln faced perhaps the greatest test of any President other than George Washington, and however you want to nitpick, he succeeded. Most would agree that his success makes him one of the greatest Presidents in our history. While it's impossible to prove that he didn't just get lucky, he does fit the argument of pointing out some of our former leaders who succeeded without a lot of previous political experience.

Lincoln was politically relevant several years before he became President and was a nationally reconized figure as part of the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

Obama can't match that.

[SkinsHokieFan]

CHANGE!

Not the back to the 1960s spending change Obama wants :no:

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I've never been in favor of completely dismantling the system, but SEVERE reform needs to happen. Just look at when asthma became an acceptable cause for people to receive SSI for there children(2002 I believe), asthma cases went up 300%. The system has gotten so out of hand there's only one way to fix it. SCRAP the whole damn thing and start over. People on welfare should be forced to take a physical and mental evaluation by "independent" doctors(not there own) and should they pass not they should receive any benefit. This should be done every year they receive benefits.

I have no problem with that, but the Dems won't go for it.

They'll see it as an attack on the system itself, a way to cut down on welfare and the like.

Stupid politicians :doh:

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Not the back to the 1960s spending change Obama wants :no:

Meh, I take his ideas with a grain of salt.

I know he won't be able to achieve everything he wants. I don't think Universal Healthcare will ever happen in this country.

McCain will continue to make the deficit worse, by cutting taxes and continuing to dump billions of dollars a day into Iraq.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Meh, I take his ideas with a grain of salt.

I know he won't be able to achieve everything he wants. I don't think Universal Healthcare will ever happen in this country.

McCain will continue to make the deficit worse, by cutting taxes and continuing to dump billions of dollars a day into Iraq.

Which is again, as the Ross Perot charts indicate, a fraction of what we spend on mandatory spending :laugh:

If you really were concerned about the deficit, you'd attack the biggest culprits

[Tastes Like Chicken]

We are quite screwed without a very fundamental change in how we spend our money

Fundamental being New Deal reversal fundamental

So do we change how we tax or change how we spend, or some combination of the two?

I've never been in favor of completely dismantling the system, but SEVERE reform needs to happen. Just look at when asthma became an acceptable cause for people to receive SSI for there children(2002 I believe), asthma cases went up 300%. The system has gotten so out of hand there's only one way to fix it. SCRAP the whole damn thing and start over. People on welfare should be forced to take a physical and mental evaluation by "independent" doctors(not there own) and should they pass not they should receive any benefit. This should be done every year they receive benefits.

Agreed, there are too many people who scam the system. However, I am on the side of the docs. They took an oath to do the right thing. My wife sees plenty of patients trying to 'get over' on the system, and she sends 'em on their way without a signature unless they actually merit one medically. You should hear her stories about painkiller-seekers too, it's terrible man.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Which is again, as the Ross Perot charts indicate, a fraction of what we spend on mandatory spending :laugh:

If you really were concerned about the deficit, you'd attack the biggest culprits

But we can, as you suggest, reform the entitlement programs.

The war cannot be reformed.

[SkinsHokieFan]

But we can, as you suggest, reform the entitlement programs.

The war cannot be reformed.

Sure it can. Eventually it will end and the amount we spend on it will decrease by 95 percent.

You don't have that option with mandatory spending and our entitlement programs because of all sorts of political inertia

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Sure it can. Eventually it will end and the amount we spend on it will decrease by 95 percent.

You don't have that option with mandatory spending and our entitlement programs because of all sorts of political inertia

Eventually is not soon enough.

[SkinsOrlando]

So do we change how we tax or change how we spend, or some combination of the two?

Agreed, there are too many people who scam the system. However, I am on the side of the docs. They took an oath to do the right thing. My wife sees plenty of patients trying to 'get over' on the system, and she sends 'em on their way without a signature unless they actually merit one medically. You should hear her stories about painkiller-seekers too, it's terrible man.

Then Karen is one of the few who doesn't write the "free check" for welfare and SSI recipients. Doctors don't want to lose patients or there government benefits, so in the best interest of themselves they sign for it. Thats why I favor an independent doctor to do the examination and qualifications for receiving benefits. Essentially take the money out of it for the examiner. Hey and whats wrong with painkillers .

If we we're to change how we spend our entitlement money, the taxation itself would change on it's own. There'd be a surplus of money in those accounts and politicians would not be able to explain away the current taxation system for them. It works hand in hand.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Then Karen is one of the few who doesn't write the "free check" for welfare and SSI recipients. Doctors don't want to lose patients or there government benefits, so in the best interest of themselves they sign for it. Thats why I favor an independent doctor to do the examination and qualifications for receiving benefits. Essentially take the money out of it for the examiner. Hey and whats wrong with painkillers .

If we we're to change how we spend our entitlement money, the taxation itself would change on it's own. There'd be a surplus of money in those accounts and politicians would not be able to explain away the current taxation system for them. It works hand in hand.

The thing is, her performance reviews are based on # of patients seen per day. She works in a medically-underserved community in a poor section of Baltimore. So there is a never-ending flow of patients and many days she can see over 30. She'll get paid the same whether Davey Drugseeker or Wilma Welfare get her signature or not. Her overwhelming message to patients is to lead a healthy lifestyle so that they're not medical trainwrecks when they're older, and burdens on the healthcare system.

[SkinsOrlando]

The thing is, her performance reviews are based on # of patients seen per day. She works in a medically-underserved community in a poor section of Baltimore. So there is a never-ending flow of patients and many days she can see over 30. She'll get paid the same whether Davey Drugseeker or Wilma Welfare get her signature or not. Her overwhelming message to patients is to lead a healthy lifestyle so that they're not medical trainwrecks when they're older, and burdens on the healthcare system.

Understood, which goes to my point that doctors who have a monetary incentive to sign off the paperwork will do so. )Not saying that is Karen had a monetary reason to do so she would). And on a sidenote ol SO's back is hurting, whats the going street rate for a vicodin prescription :laugh:

[DRSmith]

I've never been in favor of completely dismantling the system, but SEVERE reform needs to happen. Just look at when asthma became an acceptable cause for people to receive SSI for there children(2002 I believe), asthma cases went up 300%. The system has gotten so out of hand there's only one way to fix it. SCRAP the whole damn thing and start over. People on welfare should be forced to take a physical and mental evaluation by "independent" doctors(not there own) and should they pass not they should receive any benefit. This should be done every year they receive benefits.

There are lawyers that specialize in people who are denied, they would get real busy real fast if that happened

[DRSmith]

Understood, which goes to my point that doctors who have a monetary incentive to sign off the paperwork will do so. )Not saying that is Karen had a monetary reason to do so she would). And on a sidenote ol SO's back is hurting, whats the going street rate for a vicodin prescription :laugh:

Book an appointment with Diehard he will fix you up

[SkinsOrlando]

Book an appointment with Diehard he will fix you up

I didn't know Tony was capt. Vicodin, damn.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I didn't know Tony was capt. Vicodin, damn.

He's not, he does massage therapy.

If you need Vicodin give me a call...I know a guy.

[DRSmith]

He's not, he does massage therapy.

If you need Vicodin give me a call...I know a guy.

curing back pain without the addiction

Sure House makes it look cool, but how many have a job where your boss looks the other way while you pop one pill after another:D

[Idaho fan]

Regarding the original topic, I (like several others) think experience is a double edge sword. Can't decide which is better in this case and arguments for and against make sense to me.

He (Obama) doesn't need the Bush notebook, he has Hillarys.

Lets create Medicaire II to cover health care for all americans with MONEY WE DON'T HAVE!

Wow now thats change in Washington.

Or you can vote for McCain and continue to fight a war in Iraq, attack Iran, stay in Afghanistan with MONEY WE DON'T HAVE!

Your choice.

A couple of the basic reasons I am not to excited about voting this November. I really do not like either option - I guess I am in the minority. I think Bush (and the current administration) really needs to go but also believe that he gets more blame than is justified. Things were somewhat peachy up to 2006 - when a dem congress was voted in. Are the current problems all the fault of this congress? Of course not. Are they all the fault of Bush? I don't believe so. This time of year things become so us vs. them. Both sides start rumors. Supporters on both sides start bashing those who disagree with their position. I just can't wait for the election to be over. I fear we are headed for harder times with either of these two. I love my country and pray that our next leader does what is right but personally don't think either of our two options are worthy. :2cents:

I think Ill write in Joe Gibbs.

[Hubbs]

Yeah, I just find it hilarious that the OP shoots down anyone who thinks differently than him. He was given very good facts that were right in line with what he brought up, and then started calling names when he was called out. Way to keep the thread moving...:doh:

Called names? Can you point to a post in which I called someone a name? I was barely awake long enough to respond to anyone today.

Unless you mean the "tin foil hats" comment, which, while not even having anything to do with disagreeing with my OP, was erroneous anyway because I misunderstood what Thiebear was saying. I owe him an apology on that one, I thought he meant Obama was being paid under the table by some sort of Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, not that he was getting a Senate paycheck whilst campaigning, which is entirely true. Sorry, Thie.

[Hubbs]

Now back on topic.

Yes his lack of experience is an issue, we haven't elected a sitting Senator to POTUS since Kennedy. The last Presidents all had major management positions before taking office. He has no broad spectrum political managerial experience, hell I dont know if he's had any "real" life management experience. This is why people in the real world become asst managers before getting all the control, the learning curve is steep and needs to be taken at appropriate steps.

Now that, I believe, is quite the interesting point. Of course, McCain is a lifelong Senator as well, so it becomes a bit of a wash.