Thiebear Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 If I knew wtf you were saying half the time I would hows this. In the next year what do you think will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 hows this.In the next year what do you think will happen. Neither the US nor Israel will attack Iran. Nothing will be done by anyone until Bush leaves the white house. If McCain is elected sanctions will continue and may even be stepped up, no dialogue, the status quo will continue and nothing will be solved. If Obama is elected there will be talks about talks... in short nothing big is going to happen but the situation in Iraq will gradually get better, and as US forces leave the Iraqi government will be more friendly with Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 At this point the question is what to do in the face of this evil? Choclate City is correct when he says that a handful of leaders in Iran are the ones who are against us. The majority of Iranians are pro-Western, but to what extent? In Iraq, we have embarked upon the task of introducing Western Democracy into a Middle Eastern, Arab nation that is seemingly reluctant to embrace it. Although they love the freedoms we enjoy and a majority of the lay people are encouraged by the idea of a Western Democracy, it goes against their fundamental beliefs. These nations are not secular. They do not seem to have the desire to separate their rules of governing from their religious schools of law. The Qu'ran and the Hadith will always be the means by which they gain their understanding of governmet and this very precept negates the chance of Western Democracy in Islamic nations. So the question is not do we go out and fight them. We must ask ourselves how we can co-exist in this world? I am not at all against what we are doing in Iraq, I have heard first hand experience of the wonders of our presence there. But as I continue to study this region, I am becoming more and more convinced that we will never instill our version of "freedom" upon them. We must assist Iraq in becoming a strong, healthy nation that will desire to co-exist in a world that does not demand upon them anything except the complete and total absence of aggression toward us. And as long as groups like the Wahhabis and other extreme Islamic groups to the west of them and those in power in Iran who would embrace anti-American sentiment to the east of them are influential in their burgeoning "democracy" we as Westerners have a very difficult task at hand. This may be one of the best posts I have ever read here If more people can grasp what you have come to understand, we'll actually get somewhere It took me too long, and another trip back there to really realize what you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschurm Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 edited by op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 So if you watched Japan for the last 1000yrs wouldn't you have said the same thing of them? Change is not an option, it just about the time. To watch the United States for 389 years you'd never believe a Black man would be 1/2 a step from the most powerful position on Planet Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 The people of America have very different feelings, agendas, and hopes/fears than our government. It's the same with any other country including Iran. Propaganda keeps us and them confused and in the dark. When I think about potential wars with other countries I always think about their people, who have the same basic wants/needs/feelings we do. Its govts that go to war and that needs to change i our govt just as much as it does in any other. It's a shame that more people can't see that Obama knows this and his wanting to have talks with leaders we deem not worthy of talking to is at least a step forward. (IMHO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Chachie, the" not worthy of talking to " is not accurate. Perhaps you can tell me what is negotiable and what is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Chachie, the" not worthy of talking to " is not accurate.Perhaps you can tell me what is negotiable and what is not? I can't, t-dub. And certainly with due respect, neither can you because neither one of us hears about the true issues or even the extenuating circumstances of the public ones. We are only privy to what the administration tells us. So are the Iranian people. It works for good or bad on both "sides." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurseReversed Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 The world is, has, and will continue to be a dangerous place. There is reason to be worried Liberty. There IS reason to fear Iran and any other country that has the will and means to cause severe damage to any number of people in any number of ways. I admit it must not seem like a very dangerous enemy to you from the safety and comfort of your computer chair precariously purchased by the blood sweat and tears of countless soldiers for the past hundreds of years. When you take a look at the history books that you have asked everybody else to look at, what do you see? Benign and harmless enemies? Which is more common, underestimating your opponents or overestimating them? Ignoring potential threats or over compensating for them? Which scenario will you point to in the history books that provides the premise of "the threats that we perceive in this world are only the result of propoganda and fear" that you seem to portray. When in history has ignoring emerging threats and understimating their potential, been proven to be a GOOD idea? IMO it is you that needs to take a second look at the history books. You need to take a look at how the US entered into almost every major conflict, not to early, but nearly too late. Look at how we have, historicallly, underestimated and under prepared for our opponents, and have always paid dearly for it. There is no doubt about it, whethere its Iran or whomever else, we will soon have a fight on our hands. I for one hope that it is those who have understood history, not just read through it from the comfort of an american armchair, will be the ones preparing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumanB Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 "Bomb, bomb, bomb ...... bomb,bomb, Iran. Bomb, bomb, bomb ... bomb,. bomb Iran." - John McCain (to the tune of "Barbara Ann" by the Beach Boys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLockesGhost Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 "Bomb, bomb, bomb ...... bomb,bomb, Iran. Bomb, bomb, bomb ... bomb,. bomb Iran." - John McCain (to the tune of "Barbara Ann" by the Beach Boys) Is that how the Iranians sing "Death to America" too? Killing people is always good for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumanB Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Is that how the Iranians sing "Death to America" too? I don't know. Why don't you go over there and ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLockesGhost Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I don't know. Why don't you go over there and ask them. I would if I could afford it. Nowadays the dollar won't buy me crap overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Michael Ledeen has no credibility when it comes to Iran. He gets most of his information from MEK terrorists. Not to mention he is just another neoconservative with a naive vision of the world? Evil? Get the **** out of here, I mean seriously, Iran has behaved the same as any rational nation state. But the neo cons want to save some face so instead of admitting their failures they want more of the same foreign policy strategy. so naive.... stop being so scared of everything people... sheesh the fact that a country like Iran has been compared to Nazi Germany, and the USSR is ****ing absurd. Go read history, instead the bull **** that's feed to you. With even the slightest bit of real US diplomacy, Iran would ally itself quite nicely. Edit: Isn't Iran just a Power/Oil play now? Haven't they sold considerable futures on their Petro-reserves to both Russia and China in order to secure their sovereignty - several billion plus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 "Which scenario will you point to in the history books that provides the premise of "the threats that we perceive in this world are only the result of propoganda and fear" that you seem to portray." Iraq, and Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddukes Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm reading through this thread and finding it interesting to note the ages on both sides of this debate. Those claiming that the world is a nice peaceful place to live, and calling the US out as bullies seems to be on the younger side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm pretty sure you posted in the wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm reading through this thread and finding it interesting to note the ages on both sides of this debate. Those claiming that the world is a nice peaceful place to live, and calling the US out as bullies seems to be on the younger side of the argument. Whoa whoa whoa, hey now, I might be young, but I'm not naive. The world is not a nice place, in fact it's a pretty horrible place. Most young people believe its nice because they haven't been overseas, they just know how the US is. They think its not too bad over here, it can't be much worse over there. But yeah, don't lump us all together, I don't agree with the hippies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddukes Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Whoa whoa whoa, hey now, I might be young, but I'm not naive. The world is not a nice place, in fact it's a pretty horrible place. Most young people believe its nice because they haven't been overseas, they just know how the US is. They think its not too bad over here, it can't be much worse over there. But yeah, don't lump us all together, I don't agree with the hippies. Understood. It's not a perfect observation. There is definetly some blurring of the lines, but I find it interesting and I think that it reflects a larger issue in our society; an issue that goes right to what the author stated in his piece. When I was younger I felt just like Liberty...but a few years in the Army, a few visits overseas, and a few more history books and I've come to realize that the author is mostly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 When I was younger I felt just like you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Understood. It's not a perfect observation. There is definetly some blurring of the lines, but I find it interesting and I think that it reflects a larger issue in our society; an issue that goes right to what the author stated in his piece. When I was younger I felt just like Liberty...but a few years in the Army, a few visits overseas, and a few more history books and I've come to realize that the author is mostly correct. Yeah, I agree, well to the most extent that I can. I haven't been in the military but my wife is actually from the Middle East. While I believe it may be worse than it used to be, when she lived there it was no joke. I do think its a good point to bring up the fact that we were very stand offish when getting involved with the other wars, which turns out to have been a very bad idea. Now we learned from our lessons, get involved early, and because there hasn't been a major event, we must have done something wrong. What I want to know is, if we hadn't gotten involved where we would be now? Something tells me it would be a lot like those wars in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 When I was younger I felt just like you ? You're 21, what do you mean younger, actually I'm not sure who you are talking to, so that may be the better question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 "If you're young and aren't liberal you don't have a heart. If your old and not conservative, then you don't have a brain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Yeah, I agree, well to the most extent that I can. I haven't been in the military but my wife is actually from the Middle East. While I believe it may be worse than it used to be, when she lived there it was no joke. I do think its a good point to bring up the fact that we were very stand offish when getting involved with the other wars, which turns out to have been a very bad idea. Now we learned from our lessons, get involved early, and because there hasn't been a major event, we must have done something wrong. What I want to know is, if we hadn't gotten involved where we would be now? Something tells me it would be a lot like those wars in the past. You mean we would have won and have been hailed by the entire world as heroes? Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 You mean we would have won and have been hailed by the entire world as heroes?Works for me. Haha, yeah, something like that... And in the process just kill 6 million people...you know, and the heroes thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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