Why is gay marriage becoming accepting,but polygamy is just disgusting?

[WVUforREDSKINS]

People are born gay or something happens early in life that screws with the brain chemistry or way of thinking.

With gays persecuted against so often why would anyone choose to be gay?

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Explain to me, remembering that we have no state religion, how its fair to make policies in this country based on the beliefs of your particular religion.

My main beef with Christianity. Especially the extreme nutjobs, many of whom, frequent this board.

[techboy]

Hey, 81artmonk, thanks for the quotes. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is a sin.

Now please show me the passage that says that people choose to be attracted to the same sex.

Actually, you know what?

Don't bother.

I'm going to bed, and I think my position was made clear by the tone of my question.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

My main beef with Christianity. Especially the extreme nutjobs, many of whom, frequent this board.

Not all Christians are like that, we're not ALL crazy.

[techboy]

Not all Christians are like that, we're not ALL crazy.

Yes we are.

One of us. One of us. One of us.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Yes we are.

One of us. One of us. One of us.

Those guys twist religion almost as much as the Islamic fundamentalists do.

Its truly sad.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Not all Christians are like that, we're not ALL crazy.

the majority are kind, loving, caring people. The ones who live out where the buses don't run though...... The ones who deny facts and preach crazy rapture stuff.

Zguy and tech (two guys who stand for what Jesus actually preached and taught) I think are great people and wish more were like that.

Yea, the people above who seem to think they are the vessel with which god speaks tick me off.

(note that isn't a knock against rural people, its a figure of speech)

[Blackest Eyes]

Not all Christians are like that, we're not ALL crazy.

And it is very sad that many people see Christians as being that way because of a few extreme nutjobs.

[Mooka]

Well, yes and no. If it was proven by science, than that would make God wrong, and since God isn't wrong, that would make my God not a god and my religion false. So my problems would be far greater than gays marrying.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about choosing to be homosexual. It just says its forbidden, an abomination, a sin and in some cases punishable by death.

[PokerPacker]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about choosing to be homosexual. It just says its forbidden, an abomination, a sin and in some cases punishable by death.

but if god created gays gay, then what does that mean? he created flawed people making god imperfect?

[Blackest Eyes]

I honestly do not see the argument in any of this. Why do people let what is written in the bible run their lives? It was written how many years ago? Oh yeah, when there was slavery. Not to mention stoning of criminals, adulterers, etc. Times have changed and obviously, the bible does not reflect those changes. However, the bible does have lots of incredible insight on life in general.

The fact that people are all for equal rights for African Americans, yet are absolutely disgusted by homosexuals is just beyond me. Two groups of people wanting the same treatment as the majority. The difference is that the gays are considered an abomination. Why? "because the bible says so" seems to be the most common reason.

Why can't people think for themselves? It seems that many "Christians" seem to be blinded by bigotry and hatred because of a book that was translated by a countless number of people and written a really long time ago.

But like I said, I really do not see a connection in any of this stuff. If people want to get married to a bunch of different women and spend their life with multiple women, go ahead. I do not particularly agree with it, but go ahead. And why should it matter if two men or two women want to get married to each other? Does it affect you in a serious way that could be very detrimental? Probably not.

[81artmonk]

Oh come on, you completely dodged the question.

The first amendment guarntees the freedom of religion.

Explain to me, remembering that we have no state religion, how its fair to make policies in this country based on the beliefs of your particular religion.

Obviously thats how YOU feel about the matter, but it seems entirely unfair to me to hold one particular religion over an entire country when everyone in the country has the right to participate in their own religion.

I didn't dodge the question I answered it. you just didn't like the answer. We are trying to prevent the gov from changing what is. Thus making marriage something different.

[81artmonk]

Hey, 81artmonk, thanks for the quotes. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is a sin.

Now please show me the passage that says that people choose to be attracted to the same sex.

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I posted this already. But here you go. I don't know about you, but according to the verse, if you leave the natural use of a woman and lust toward a man, that seems pretty clear it's a choice.

[81artmonk]

My main beef with Christianity. Especially the extreme nutjobs, many of whom, frequent this board.

to answer that question, that's the way we have done it since this country started and now those who don't believe that way are crying foul. Our country was founded on christian principles. So now after 200 years, people who don't believe that way want to change it.

[81artmonk]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about choosing to be homosexual. It just says its forbidden, an abomination, a sin and in some cases punishable by death.

Ok, If God made gay people gay, than why would he speak about it being sinful??

and yes, if a man leaves a woman for the function of a man, I would consider that a choice.

[Blackest Eyes]

to answer that question, that's the way we have done it since this country started and now those who don't believe that way are crying foul. Our country was founded on christian principles. So now after 200 years, people who don't believe that way want to change it.

weren't many of the founding fathers Deists...not Christians?

[PokerPacker]

weren't many of the founding fathers Deists...not Christians?

Jefferson was a Deist. and no, the founding fathers did not create this country based on "christian principles".

[Blackest Eyes]

Jefferson was a Deist. and no, the founding fathers did not create this country based on "christian principles".

Ben Franklin too, right?

I dislike when people say Christian principles. What exactly are Christian principles anyway? I am sure there are lots of mixed opinions about that.

[Mooka]

Ok, If God made gay people gay, than why would he speak about it being sinful??

I have no idea. It still doesn't say that people choose to be gay. What about hermaphrodites? Are they born automatic sinners?

and yes, if a man leaves a woman for the function of a man, I would consider that a choice.

Not if they were gay in the first place.

[ljs]

this is simple to answer. These were rules the jews had to follow. In a nutshell When christ died on the cross, he abolished that rules system for which the jews were adhereing to.

Thank you for proving my point. I know that, but was waiting for someone to say it. If you follow Pauls writings to a tee, women have no rights what so ever. But again, my point is this, people are picking and chosing what bible verses they want to focus on. When in reality, a sin is sin and I think you and I agree that Christ died on the cross to forgive us. The new testament preaches his word, of love, not of discrimination and hate.

[ljs]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about choosing to be homosexual. It just says its forbidden, an abomination, a sin and in some cases punishable by death.

along with many others mentioned in the bible.

[PokerPacker]

Ben Franklin too, right?

I dislike when people say Christian principles. What exactly are Christian principles anyway? I am sure there are lots of mixed opinions about that.

I think i heard Franklin was a deist, but I can't be sure.

[ljs]

I posted this already. But here you go. I don't know about you, but according to the verse, if you leave the natural use of a woman and lust toward a man, that seems pretty clear it's a choice.

When you say 'Natrual use', I assume you mean pro creation. So, would you say that you can't get married unless you can have kids? And to me, loving another woman is natural. Being held by or intimant w/ a man is completely disgusting to me. And has my entire life. I grew up in a Republican, military, church going family. I was never abused. There would be no apparent reason for me to chose a lifestyle that I was totally sheltered from(meaning any knowledge) until age 13. I honestly had no idea what gay or homosexual was. I just knew that I wanted to be a boy because I wanted to have a girlfriend or wife someday. Seriously remember thinking that in second grade. But to define it, well, that came years later. My family didn't take it well at the time, well my mom anyway. But never was I shunned, or ousted from them. I continue to go to church on occasion, but regularly pray or read the bible. I live a clean life, like I said, have served both my country and town. I'm no different than any other "straight" person who says they believe in God and lives a good life. If I am to be denied rights because I have a relationship outside of marriage, but by far outside commitment, then so should hundreds of thousands of hetersexuals who do the same thing.

I've mentioned that I don't care a lot about the marriage issue. Whatever word, whatever the need, no one should be denied any rights. I'm talking about hospital visitation, health benefits, tax benefits...that in no way infringes upon any one else and is not a cause to moral decay in our country.

By the way...There are 3 lesbians in my family, we are a couple generations apart. Myself and 2 second cousins. We all have the same great grandmother. I recently found out that my great grandmothers female cousin was gay. She lived during the early 1900's, died in the 90

s. She lived with a "female companion" for over 40 years. I guess everyone knew, but it wasn't really talked about. Guess thats just a coincidence and in no way a hint of it being genetic.???

[ljs]

Ok, If God made gay people gay, than why would he speak about it being sinful??

and yes, if a man leaves a woman for the function of a man, I would consider that a choice.

First, you and I already agreed that the old testament 'laws' were washed due to Jesus. I believe in the trinity, making God/Jesus/Holy Spirit 3 in one. Show me a quote in the bible where Jesus himself speaks against homosexuality. Not something Paul or Peter wrote..I want a quote from Jesus. Because I seriously can't find one.

But I sure can find one where he actually speaks against adultery, oaths (lying), Divorce, murder, revenge and love for your enemies. (Matthew 5:17-48. He goes on to speak against , worry, for prayer, and for fasting. (Matthew 6:1-34.

And my personal favorit, Matthew 7: 1-2. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

It continues on for a few more verses...

[techboy]

but if god created gays gay, then what does that mean? he created flawed people making god imperfect?

Again, this is flawed logic. People are imperfect because we are not God.

It seems that many "Christians" seem to be blinded by bigotry and hatred because of a book that was translated by a countless number of people and written a really long time ago.

Again, translations are irrelevant. We have the texts in the original Greek and Hebrew.

I posted this already. But here you go. I don't know about you, but according to the verse, if you leave the natural use of a woman and lust toward a man, that seems pretty clear it's a choice.

Choosing to act on the attraction is a choice. Nowhere in that verse (or anywhere else in the Bible, for that matter) does it say that people choose to be attracted to the same sex.

Ok, If God made gay people gay, than why would he speak about it being sinful??

Humans have a sin nature. You know, standard Christian theology? We are not perfect. Everyone struggles with their own issues. Some struggle with an attraction to his or her own sex (or choose not to struggle with it).

You might as well ask why if God considers adultery a sin, did he make heterosexuals lustful before marriage? Or why if He considers stealing a sin, did He make kleptomaniacs?

But again, my point is this, people are picking and chosing what bible verses they want to focus on.

You're condemning people that you see as "picking and choosing" parts of the Bible, yet you yourself are ignoring entire swaths of it, going so far as to dismiss Peter and Paul.

You might want to think about that...

First, you and I already agreed that the old testament 'laws' were washed due to Jesus.

Some of them. "Thou Shall Not Kill" is still on, which might be a lucky thing for some of my students.

I believe in the trinity, making God/Jesus/Holy Spirit 3 in one.

See you in Heaven.

Show me a quote in the bible where Jesus himself speaks against homosexuality. Not something Paul or Peter wrote..I want a quote from Jesus. Because I seriously can't find one.

But I sure can find one where he actually speaks against adultery, oaths (lying), Divorce, murder, revenge and love for your enemies. (Matthew 5:17-48.

Jesus talks about adultery as sex (or even thoughts of it) outside of marriage. Marriage in Christianity is clearly between a man and a woman. Jesus, therefore, speaks against homosexual behavior.

But really, Paul should be good enough.

And my personal favorit, Matthew 7: 1-2. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

That's a tricky sword to wield. Are you judging anybody in this thread?

Anyway, I am not saying that being a homosexual keeps a person out of Heaven if they have Jesus. Everyon'es a sinner, and has his or her own issues. What I am saying is that an honest reading of the Bible shows that homosexual behavior is a sin. That's indisputable.

None of this, of course, has any bearing at all on what the State should do, in my view, though. I'm pretty minimalist about what the law should prohibit (force and fraud).