myzhi Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The reason collins looked so much better at hitting recievers in stride than JC is because he had 5+ more years experience with the 700-page playbook.This year us going to a WCO should favor JC. I wouldn't count on that. 1) It's been over 3 years and he's been playing different systems since then. How much does he still remember about college WCO. 2) Playing WCO in college could be night and day against WCO in NFL. Talent level, game speed, intricacy of an NFL Defense and so on makes it much harder. What's more important NFL game experience or experience running a college system. Think, more NFL experience (TC) has more advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 If you have to evaluate him now, they are all wrong to some degree. Although Campbell has upside, what we have seen so far is strong arm, bad accuracy, bad timing, poor deep ball accuracy, average footwork, no quick release, good pocket presence with good O-line, slightly mobile (not athletic), not good leadership, recognizes checkdowns. This is fair to say. And I like Campbell. He has a lot of room for improvement and most of it is basic stuff which he should already have from past experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tritx3 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 For those of you who are curious what people thought before Zorn showed up... is the 2007 season. What the media said, what Joe Bugel said, what Joe Gibbs said. Still don't think people keep changing their minds about what hes good and bad at? The only thing hes consistantly shown is everyone, EVERYONE thinks hes a leader, from coaches to players. that was an awesome video. got me all excited about seeing JC play this again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Good Lord, McD5 really can turn any thread into a "trade Portis and play Betts" thread. Never underestimate the gloriousnous that it McD5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Optimists: I love Joe Gibbs for leaving us with a franchise quarterback for the future!Pessimists: Gibbs has destroyed this team for the next three years, by forcing players into situations that were never going to work out. Ala Portis as a power running back, or JC as a starting qb. If JC busts, we have to use our 1st next year on a qb, and our lines and cbs will be in trouble. Truth: Probably somewhere in between. Simple, intelligent, but won't be used solution if JC does bust? Trade a star player where we have a good backup, in an effort to get a real qb. Trade Portis at the end of the season if JC busts. Unfortunately our FO may not possess that kind of intelligence just yet. They are still learning. The pros and cons of Campbell aside, we don't have to go this route as you're saying because we may have already drafted his successor (if he needs to be) in Colt Brennon. I've got faith that Campbell can be a Pro Bowl QB. But taking into consideration that he may not be, we have another QB on the roster who has a lot of talent and may be able to come in and be a superstar. So the world doesn't end if Campbell turns into a backup QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofizz Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Week 2 @ Philly. Campbell misses Moss WIDE open after he completely burns the secondary. And we're not talking missed by a few inches. It was bad. Really bad. Deep ball accuracy is a major concern for Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalRecall Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 ...we may have already drafted his successor (if he needs to be) in Colt Brennon... we have another QB on the roster who has a lot of talent and may be able to come in and be a superstar. Don't bet the farm on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Don't bet the farm on that one. who's betting the farm? I'm just saying we have another guy with a nice college resume on the roster right now. I haven't analyzed the strengths and weaknesses of Colt just yet, but I have read some very positive reviews of him, some of which had him going as a possible day one or early day two pick. So I'm not going to say that we have no talent behind Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Week 2 @ Philly. Campbell misses Moss WIDE open after he completely burns the secondary.And we're not talking missed by a few inches. It was bad. Really bad. Deep ball accuracy is a major concern for Jason. What a joke. What about those 3 straight bombs to Thrash against the eagles. What about Campbell to Moss in GB and Moss drops it off the face mask? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Champ Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 cant judge him off of one errant pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Week 2 @ Philly. Campbell misses Moss WIDE open after he completely burns the secondary.And we're not talking missed by a few inches. It was bad. Really bad. I couldnt understand that play. I remember leaping off the couch when it was playaction about to scream dagger!!!!! But it was like at least a yard in front of Sanatan Moss. Thats when I realized, he overthrew Santana Moss on a playaction go. I didnt think that was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emoshag Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The reason collins looked so much better at hitting recievers in stride than JC is because he had 5+ more years experience with the 700-page playbook.This year us going to a WCO should favor JC. I am not discounting Todd and the experience he had in Al Saunders system.... but I will only add that the number of drops decreased from 19% to 6% in the games Todd Collins played. I only mention it because I think its important to note that either Collins was hitting his receivers better or his throws balls have a better velocity and RPM for making catches. Food for thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Good Lord, McD5 really can turn any thread into a "trade Portis and play Betts" thread. I was going to say exactly the same thing. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mac Patty Wack Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Two of those are blatantly contradictory. He's a good leader but can't carry a team? Quick set up and is mobile but has bad footwork. I personally wouldn't trust any of these sketchy draft analysts. They're a bunch of losers who still live with their mothers at age 40. JC will be a freakin' beast this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTotalPackage Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 He got that experience on the bench. I couldn't help but notice those draft reports mentioned that JC would need time on the bench to get used to the NFL. Obviously he should have simmered a bit longer. i don't agree I wouldn't count on that. 1) It's been over 3 years and he's been playing different systems since then. How much does he still remember about college WCO. 2) Playing WCO in college could be night and day against WCO in NFL. Talent level, game speed, intricacy of an NFL Defense and so on makes it much harder. What's more important NFL game experience or experience running a college system. Think, more NFL experience (TC) has more advantage. still, TC spent 7 or so years in one system. JC only had a year. now, since JC has experience learning what..5 different systems in 6 years and TC has been in the same one for the past 7, i give JC the nod with the ability to adapt to a new one. you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 The thing I feel JC needs to do is hit recievers in stride on short passes, everytime the WR has to stop catch and go again. I really think this is why Collins looked so much better last year. Does anyone else notice this or is just me? Has more to do with the System than anything else. Saunders/Gibbs system calls for throwing into spots, not into routes. Now that he is in the WCO, we will see if he is able to throw into a route instead of a spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 1 KFFL - quick release/set up, mobile, makes all the throws, pocket prescence, leader, bad deep accuracy, bad reads, bad short accuracy, bad footwork Am I the only one who is confused by this analysis? He can make all the throws... But he can't throw deep, and he can't throw short. Errr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Why not blame a stuff of WRs that are not any good? Where is Santana I hurt my hamstring every week Moss? Sorry, Campbell should have a preternatural feel for how Moss runs routes despite Moss missing most of last offseason and a ton of practice. </sarcasm> To be fair, Campbell seemed to be much more accurate with ARE who didn't miss much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I am not discounting Todd and the experience he had in Al Saunders system.... but I will only add that the number of drops decreased from 19% to 6% in the games Todd Collins played. I only mention it because I think its important to note that either Collins was hitting his receivers better or his throws balls have a better velocity and RPM for making catches.Food for thought.... Not saying this is definitely true, but also take into account the health of our recievers. ARE and Moss are burners, not to say they are bad, but that is where msot of their production comes to. It's difficult to gauge how fast someone will run injured vs what you are used to, and it's difficult for a WR to concentrate on catching if they're in a great deal of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 cant judge him off of one errant pass... Apparently you can. Hunter R is THAT smart! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 in 2004 with Auburn he had an average of 10 YPA and nearly 70% completion percentage, explain how that is possible. was he throwing to ronnie brown deep every play? When your RB are averaging almost 6ypc it is easy to complete passes for a 10ypa at 70% rate. The defense gives that up becuase the line is stacked with 8-9 defenders to stop the run. That makes it easy for an athletically superior (compared to competition) WR to run a 10 yard curl/cross and be open. With ample time to thorw any QB in that scenario should complete close to 70% of their passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skindogger47 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Jason Campbell is awesome. Who knew you cold overthrow Santana on a deep route? Maybe if they get a chance to practice together this won't be such an issue. Zorn should improve JC's mechanics to make him more consistent, which is all he needs to be a top QB in the NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 To have accuracy on a deep ball you have to have chemistry with your receivers. The only way to do that is to have all of the receivers practicing. Last season Campbell had no time to practice with Moss and not much time to practice with ARE as they both had their injuries throughout the season. Unfortunately when Campbell went down ARE, Moss and Portis were becoming healthy, hence we played very well down the stretch. I'm not saying Collins didn't have something to do with that as he most certainly did, but he also had the advantage of a healthy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesburgvaskinsfan Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 JC will probably struggle a bit, early on, but when that "rhythm" kicks in with his receivers that Coach Zorn keeps talking about, it's going to be fun to watch him grow as a passer and a leader. He has all of the intangibles that we've been lacking at QB in the past 10 years or so. I look for JC to only improve now that we have big fast bodies along with Moss and ARE to get the ball to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stp240 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Im so damn tired of all the people bashing JC! TC had the most perfect throwing lanes when he came in When the o line performed for him like they did Jason, TC folded like a ***** OH YEAH! STOP THIS BULL **** about how he cant perform in the 4th quarter damn it! LOOK at the first Giants game, JC hits ARE on the goal line, ARE doesnt get in....4 run plays later, and JC is no longer a winner If Betts gets in the end zone, everyones tone about JC woulda changed...This man has done his job and then some! I couldnt be happier with our QB situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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