Jason Campbell (Merged)

[mistertim]

Really? Seriously? I just made a simple statement and you decide to end the conversation because it really is hard to deny that the draft made those teams what they are.

I hate being a jerk, especially to another 'skins fan. But it really would help your cause if you would actually state your points rather than ignore anyone who disagrees with you.

I wouldn't even bother, my friend. You see how big his ignore list is. Once he hears things from you he doesn't like he just blocks you.

[CRobi21]

The reality is that had JC not been injured in the Chicago game, the Skins don't make the playoffs.

How on God's green earth can you make a comment like this. :stfu:

I can't stand some of you people on here man.

Someone e-mail me when the season starts. Maybe I'll start posting again.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

:yikes:

Umm....Landrey (2007), Rogers, Campbell (2005), Taylor (2004), Ramsey (2002), Gardner (2001), Arrington, Samuels (2000)

Not counting Campbell (since he is the topic of conversation), and "No D" Rogers (since it is so well documented in my displeasure w/ him) I still count 4 Good to great players on their. Actually, I think that Gardner is the only one who really was bad. Ramsey would have been good if he hadn't gotten distroyed by Spurrier. :2cents:

Landry is still a question mark in my mind, but most likely a positive. Campbell is a definite bust in my mind, as are Rogers, Ramsey, and Gardner. Arrington and Samuels are "pushes" in my mind. Taylor on the field was great. Off the field he was awful.

Really? Seriously? I just made a simple statement and you decide to end the conversation because it really is hard to deny that the draft made those teams what they are.

What they are is NOT what I want or expect this team to be. Especially when it comes to the Patriots. They're all teams that have benefitted from the Salary Cap and Parity concepts of the new era NFL. Things that I've been pretty vocal about abhoring.

I hate being a jerk, especially to another 'skins fan. But it really would help your cause if you would actually state your points rather than ignore anyone who disagrees with you.

I'm not looking to make friends or have people like me, terpskins. If that's what I was looking for, ES is not where I'd be. Likewise, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, to have my mind changed, or to waste my time engaging in debate. I think I've made that perfectly clear over time.

[corrupt3d]

Again, I see your point.

However, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say that he's played less than 2 years worth of games yet still expect his INT ratio to be down around 2%. He's improving and that's all we can ask at this point.

You also can't concede that he probably would have played by year 2 with most coaches and then hold it against him that he didn't under Gibbs. We saw in 2006 that he clearly should have been in there from day 1 over Brunell.

Athleticism can definitely help at the QB position...especially while he's learning the ropes. McNabb made a living improvising when he was younger before evolving into a top-flight QB (and he was drafted much higher).

I didn't mean to get into a philosophical debate about this...I just wanted to start the thread with my optimism that we have a good player and leader at the QB position.

Ignore MSF, TD. He's not worth it. All he'll do is give you his point and walk away, hoping that you assume its right.

He expects that he can change your view, but he wont let you change his.

[corrupt3d]

Landry is still a question mark in my mind, but most likely a positive. Campbell is a definite bust in my mind, as are Rogers, Ramsey, and Gardner. Arrington and Samuels are "pushes" in my mind. Taylor on the field was great. Off the field he was awful.

What they are is NOT what I want or expect this team to be. Especially when it comes to the Patriots. They're all teams that have benefitted from the Salary Cap and Parity concepts of the new era NFL. Things that I've been pretty vocal about abhoring.

I'm not looking to make friends or have people like me, terpskins. If that's what I was looking for, ES is not where I'd be. Likewise, I'm not here to change anyone's mind, to have my mind changed, or to waste my time engaging in debate. I think I've made that perfectly clear over time.

If that were true, he wouldn't espouse his ****ty viewpoints and argue with you until you give up.

[SoCalSkins]

How on God's green earth can you make a comment like this. :stfu:

I can't stand some of you people on here man.

Someone e-mail me when the season starts. Maybe I'll start posting again.

Do you actually think that the explosion on offense we had as soon as JC was hurt had nothing to do with his mediocre play? We also won 2 games against teams JC lost to following the Chicago game.

JC would not have won the Chicago game, Minnesota or at the Giants. But he would have cried like a 9 yer old girl in the locker room and everyone here would defend him for caring.

[terpskins10]

What they are is NOT what I want or expect this team to be.

Successful? Because that's what it boils down to.

You talk about wanting production out of your players and for players to win games for you. Then you decide you hate the way the teams that DO win games have achieved their success?

So which is it? The team gets built in your image but isn't successful or the team gets built the way you hate but wins games?

[SkipJackSkin]

I can't wait to see how JC performs this season.

[terpskins10]

I can't wait to see how JC performs this season.

You and me both, SkipJack. Because, if nothing else, I fully believe that it will make people like Mass and SoCal change their opinions.

[corrupt3d]

Do you actually think that the explosion on offense we had as soon as JC was hurt had nothing to do with his mediocre play? We also won 2 games against teams JC lost to following the Chicago game.

JC would not have won the Chicago game, Minnesota or at the Giants. But he would have cried like a 9 yer old girl in the locker room and everyone here would defend him for caring.

Also, lets ignore the healthy wide receivers, strong OL play, better running game and everyone playing with a purpose.

[corrupt3d]

You and me both, SkipJack. Because, if nothing else, I fully believe that it will make people like Mass and SoCal change their opinions.

Agreed, I'm really excited.

[bedlamVR]

You see it that way. I see it as....

It's hard to draft a quarterback who is going to be productive right away, so let's NOT DRAFT A QUARTERBACK.

So this is what you are basing your entire argument around ....I hate the idea of drafting a WR or DE in the 1st round but once they are on the team does it matter ..

SMG are you basing the ranking on statistics or just your opinion in which case I would really take issue with a couple of people on your list . Derek Anderson doesn't have a team right now, I would like to see what he does next year ...Kitna has all the tools in the world and is on his what 4th team ? Garcia.. the Bucs were not a power offense and again he is a journeyman... The other guy other than Anderson who has been in the league for the same amount of time as Campbell is Cutler and I would say they are at least on the same level so that would put him in the top 15 well on my list anyway

[emor09]

in my opinion, these are the QB's ahead of JC:

Tony Romo sits to pee

Jeff Garcia

Matt Hasselbeck

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

David Garrard

Vince Young

Carson Palmer

[flexxskins]

It's been suggested before. I'm a pessimist. I always have been and always will be. If you don't like seeing that opinion, might I suggest putting me on your ignore list, and you won't have to see my posts.

Yes, you've mentioned that you are a pessimist a number of times now. You have now successfully hijacked this thread with letting us all know your beliefs and disbeliefs, yada, yada, yada.

Frankly, IMO, you make controversial comments just so that you can get an opportunity to talk about yourself. You'll probably see my quote as a shot at you, but it really is'nt. I'm really just making an observation as to what I have read so far. Nothing personal.

I just think it's funny that you think that you might be so disturbing/important that you felt it necessary to suggest that another member here put you on his ignore list. I found that amusing.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Successful? Because that's what it boils down to.

You talk about wanting production out of your players and for players to win games for you. Then you decide you hate the way the teams that DO win games have achieved their success?

So which is it? The team gets built in your image but isn't successful or the team gets built the way you hate but wins games?

I define Winning as more than simply having more points on the scoreboard than the other guy at the end of the day. I believe that there are proper and improper ways to build the team and to play the game. Using those improper styles (as the entire list of teams mentioned earlier do) to get those victories isn't Winning to me. I've discussed that many times around here. I'd rather see a team built the right way LOSE EVERY GAME, than to see a team build the wrong way win the Super Bowl.

[outbaksean]

in my opinion, these are the QB's ahead of JC:

Tony Romo sits to pee

Jeff Garcia

Matt Hasselbeck

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

David Garrard

Vince Young

Carson Palmer

jake dellhome when healthy

drew brees

mcnabb if healthy

roethlesburger

anderson

young and bulger are pushes

[Mass_SkinsFan]

So this is what you are basing your entire argument around ....I hate the idea of drafting a WR or DE in the 1st round but once they are on the team does it matter.

It does matter to me. See the post I just made in response to terpskins about the right and wrong ways to build a team. There have been numerous players wearing Burgandy and Gold in recent years that I wouldn't root for... David Patten, Christian Fauria, etc... for different reasons.

[bushwack]

Why does everyone keep feeding into Mass_SkinsFan by quoting every pessimistic post he writes, if everyone ignores him then he'll have no one to argue with and we can talk intelligently amongst ourselves, who actually have a heart and a brain when it comes to the Skins and football.

[emor09]

jake dellhome when healthy

drew brees

mcnabb if healthy

roethlesburger

anderson

young and bulger are pushes

Delhomme hasn't been good since they went to the bowl

Brees makes an argument, but i would take JC

McNabb is nothing without his legs, and even when healthy, his legs arent the same

Big Ben may be, but i don't think he will be the same since his motorcycle accident

Anderson had 1 good year, and he has Edwards and Winslow who are both great weapons

Bulger hasnt been healthy

[terpskins10]

Delhomme hasn't been good since they went to the bowl

Brees makes an argument, but i would take JC

McNabb is nothing without his legs, and even when healthy, his legs arent the same

Big Ben may be, but i don't think he will be the same since his motorcycle accident

Anderson had 1 good year, and he has Edwards and Winslow who are both great weapons

Bulger hasnt been healthy

Brees is the third best QB in football IMO, behind Brady and Manning. I love JC too, but that's absurd.

Not to mention Ben Roethlisberger had his injury two offseasons ago, struggled that season, and then came back this year to throw for 3000 yards and 32 touchdowns. That is also absurd to compare JC to at this point.

[TheItalianStallion]

Do you actually think that the explosion on offense we had as soon as JC was hurt had nothing to do with his mediocre play? We also won 2 games against teams JC lost to following the Chicago game.

JC would not have won the Chicago game, Minnesota or at the Giants. But he would have cried like a 9 yer old girl in the locker room and everyone here would defend him for caring.

Offensive explosion?

# of 400+ yard games w/JC during 2007: 4

# of 400+ yard games w/TC during 2007: 0

The D also did a hell of a lot better while Collins was in, which gave Collins more opportunities. You think Collins was the reason we beat NYG? He played like crap (the wind was a factor, obviously, but I think JC's strong arm would've been able to negate that to a degree). He had great protection against Minny, a run game, healthy WRs, and a good D that forced turnovers. And you can't say that he wouldn't have won the Chicago game.

[Redskins4ever]

I was most impressed with Jason Campbell in the second Dallas game. He showed why Gibbs was so high on him. Although he made a mistake at the end, he played tremendously than what I've could have ever hoped for. He'll be a great QB soon.

[Wyvern]

At this juncture, ES fans need to acknowledge that Campbell's 2007 performance did not convince everyone that Jason was the franchise QB, nor even a 'solid' QB who could consistently reel in the victory for his team. Now, some could point to spots when he looked good , but others could point to bad spots as well.

Maybe the 2007 woes were because Campbell was 'hindered' -- by deficiencies in the personnel surrounding him, or maybe because of the offensive playbook, or because of the coach, ... or maybe it was due to Jason's own limitations.

Well, in 2008 we've changed the playbook, the coach, and no doubt some of the personnel surrounding Jason will be different too. Campbell was officially annointed as the starter, and Zorn will be working closely with Campbell, and no doubt designing plays that take advantage of Campbell's skills. (Heck, Zorn is even trying to get Rabach to alter his stance to make things easier for Jason Campbell.)

So, in 2008, the 'excuses' are being taken away. Consequently, let's agree that the 2008 season is when Campbell must stand up for himself, and for his career as the Redskins QB. In short, Jason needs to be seriously judged on his 2008 performance -- with no excuses.

That's because, soon after, the Redskins FO will have to decide whether or not they are willing to give Jason a "franchise QB" type of contract. Considering all that hangs in the balance, I truly hope Campbell's 2008 performance provides the Skins' FO with a clear course of action, on what to do.

[RocketCitySkins]

Having watched Jason play for 7 years, I think the biggest problem he has is the speed of the NFL game. He had a fantastic o-line at Auburn and all the time in the world to make decisions. I know that JC is going into his 4th NFL year, but this aspect of the game is something that can only be worked out if you're in the game and not on the sideline. I expect (hope) to see a lot of improvement this year. I'm going to stay positive. It has to be there this year. I would be really sad if Jason fell into the long list of quarterbacks who couldn't make the transistion from college to pro.

[GPinn1224]

Here I go again preaching about receivers in this league. Factor in the lil receivers we have with a crappy o-line and people expect JC to play like a vet. Campbell has soooo many things working against him so everytime he makes a mistake he's shot down.

You hear all the noise about stalling in the red zone. Who the hell is he suppose to throw to without getting it picked off. Endzone plays calls for taller receivers. Campbell is what....6-4 6-6 or something. and he's suppose to throw the ball downwards in the endzone? Come on now. Not to mention he only has two seconds because the line sends out VIP invites to everyone on the opposing team into the backfield.

ALMOST every qb that has better numbers than JC has an outstanding receiver and a decent line. The ONLY PLAYER off the top of my head who excelled with absolutely no line at all was Barry Sanders.

Eli won a superbowl yes. He also had that ONE play where he actually manned up (( no pun intended )) and made an incredible play. No one in their right mind would take eli over campbell. My point is......it's a TEAM SPORT. If everyone else was doing their part and Campbell was still f'n up......then i'd agree with alot of you. Thats clearly not the case.

I know we're suppose to ignore that mass guy whoever he is, but....one of the craziest things i think he said that no one commented on is when he said something about Campbell calling out gibbs and moss and other players or coaches. You can't be serious. As a qb there are times you get in the faces of other PLAYERS and i'm not talking publicly. You don't call out another player in the media ESPECIALLY when you just got into the league. That'll destroy a team, not bring them closer. Gibbs already prefers to play vets so why would you ask a young guy to get on his case. Career suicide. The hell is wrong with you.