Mass_SkinsFan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 so even though the first bit of advice that you hear about guns is "shoot to kill", you're not supposed to? :doh: Packer, the concept is that the torso shot MAY NOT be fatal. Obviously you're shooting to kill, but the torso is a larger area with more non-fatal areas than the head. Nobody sane wants to get shot. Most people are going to go down and stay down with a shot to the chest. The head shot shows additional malice that can be used as an exacerbating circumstance in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_RedskinsFan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I hope Guy takes this all into consideration before shooting the person trying to steal his bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Maybe they won't toss you out, but I know that the NRA's targets have bullseyes on the chest, and they prohibit you from bringing in targets that look like people... I'm sure that if they were to notice that someone was going for the head and not the bullseye, they might use their discretion... Oh I know what you're talking about. The NRA doesn't allow the ones that have human pictures and such on them. But they have no problem with you shooting at the head of a human silhouette target. I've done it. And, if you happen to have a Bin Laden target, ain't no one gonna tell you to leave . . . :laugh: I asked a cop once if he could shoot a fleeing suspect. The answer, written down in the department SOP's (whatever they call them) is yes. If the suspect presents an imminent threat. Let's say that bad dude walked in to a house and shoots three people and runs out the back door. The cops orders the guy/girl to stop.The person utters some curse words and keeps running. Seems like the person is an imminent threat and may kill again. The cop can shoot him in the back as he is running away and be a justified killing Cops rules are different from everyday civilian rules. They have the general welfare of the public to think about. so even though the first bit of advice that you hear about guns is "shoot to kill", you're not supposed to? :doh: Exactly. You aim center mass. Where the heart is. To kill. Thats also why you fire two shots rapidly (known as a double tap). Its not the actual bullets that kill necessarily, but the force of the two impacts that causes damage. The Marine Corps calls it hydraulic shock because, essentially, with the body being mostly water, the ripples that the impact cause collide with each other, sending the body into immediate shock. But the bottom line is that shooting to wound will cause you to miss. You shoot to kill, thereby ensuring your survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Exactly. You aim center mass. Where the heart is. To kill. Thats also why you fire two shots rapidly (known as a double tap). Its not the actual bullets that kill necessarily, but the force of the two impacts that causes damage. The Marine Corps calls it hydraulic shock because, essentially, with the body being mostly water, the ripples that the impact cause collide with each other, sending the body into immediate shock. But the bottom line is that shooting to wound will cause you to miss. You shoot to kill, thereby ensuring your survival. ok, that makes a lot of sense. I never thought about the ripple-effect. learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 ok, that makes a lot of sense. I never thought about the ripple-effect. learn something new every day. Yup. We are taught the controlled pair, the hammer pair, and the failure to stop drill. FSD are two shots to the chest and then one to the head or pelvic region. The idea is that if the target is wearing body armor, the third shot will get him on the ground no matter what. You shoot for the pelvic region if you believe the target is to far for a head shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_RedskinsFan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yup. We are taught the controlled pair, the hammer pair, and the failure to stop drill.FSD are two shots to the chest and then one to the head or pelvic region. The idea is that if the target is wearing body armor, the third shot will get him on the ground no matter what. You shoot for the pelvic region if you believe the target is to far for a head shot. That is the same thing i learned when i was in the USMC, 2 to the chest 1 to the head, as i said before you do not have to worry about somebody still coming at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 That is the same thing i learned when i was in the USMC, 2 to the chest 1 to the head, as i said before you do not have to worry about somebody still coming at you. They still teach us that, devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 This might do the trick;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I would suggest not getting one, but since you are set on it, here are some tips: 12 gauge pump, short barrel, modified or an open cylinder bore choke. Buy some dummy snap caps to practice loading, cycling, and firing. Get some #1 or 0 buck shot in the longest shell your gun will chamber(2 3/4" or 3" probably). Take a safety education course and keep your gun clean and oiled or have someone knowledgable do it for you(the cleaning and oiling that is). DO NOT chase people with your gun. Use it only to defend your lives, NOT property. Make sure any residents in the home are not in the direction of fire, including through walls, windows and doors. Hole up in a safe room and prepared to fire if the threat comes to you. If you can't control yourself enough to do that then you should just move. Don't buy a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Just go to a gun show and grab a "Street Sweeper" and call it quits. BTW, you will need some paper work, because it is considered a destructive device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 cant go wrong with the 870, especially after you have it converted for home defense. If you go the shotgun rout .Guy use slugs or sabbot ammo. No buckshot. If you do you'll be trying to explain to your neighbors three doors down why their bathtub exploded. That would doubly apply to 9mm round which I have seen go through some surprising and tortured paths through all sorts of building materials. I have some experience with shotguns in tactical uses and they are not hard to use even inside if you get the proper training. I'll just add that if you do get a gun, take the training, learn as much as you can about the weapon and it's ammo, practice often, don't feel you need some room broom when a 870 will do, and use the best of judgement if you use it for defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_Man Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I don't mean to hijack the thread but I had a similar situation.. One morning I woke up and heard my car alarm go off. I look out the window and see some guys in hoodies had broken a window in the back, opened the door and were searching my car. This is in Maryland by the way. If i had approached them with a shotgun and they begin to flee to their get away vehicle with the driver waiting for them, what are my options? Could I at the very least shoot out their tires so they couldn't get away? Personally, I would be very ready to shoot them both in the back especially if I felt one or both was reaching for something to quickly turn around and use against me. If it turns out they had no weapons, am I in trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 You really need to spend more than 250 dollars to have a reliable handgun with stopping power. My favorite is the same M9 sidearm which is the assigned pistol for officers in the US military. If it is good enough for us, it should be good enough for any civilian worried about home security. It is light and dependable. And will blow a burglar's head off if you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ron- this is the same issue that was back in texas about three months ago. an old guy saw burglars breaking into his next door neighbors house and called the police. there is about a 3 minute telephone call with "911" where he has a shotgun and is telling the dispatcher he is not going to let them get away, it is hilarious. the police are telling him to stay inside, but he racks the shotgun, runs outside and kills both of them. He has not been prosecuted due to Texas law, but in Maryland I can GUARANTEE you would be arrested and charged if you walked outside and shot at fleeing criminals. You should never really do that anyway, you might miss them and hit someone else with a shotgun- or if you do hit them you will just wound them from that range and once they are out of jail they will target your family. either shoot to kill, or never shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_Man Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ron- this is the same issue that was back in texas about three months ago. an old guy saw burglars breaking into his next door neighbors house and called the police.there is about a 3 minute telephone call with "911" where he has a shotgun and is telling the dispatcher he is not going to let them get away, it is hilarious. the police are telling him to stay inside, but he racks the shotgun, runs outside and kills both of them. He has not been prosecuted due to Texas law, but in Maryland I can GUARANTEE you would be arrested and charged if you walked outside and shot at fleeing criminals. You should never really do that anyway, you might miss them and hit someone else with a shotgun- or if you do hit them you will just wound them from that range and once they are out of jail they will target your family. either shoot to kill, or never shoot. By the way, I live in a pretty large community, which I believe is safe for the most part. Since I live on a culdasac, a pretty large one at that, there would have been plenty of space for me to aim and not hit anyone else, maybe a parked car along the way, but the housees around here are quite spread out. Honestly, I feel like these thugs breaking into my car just to steal a bookbag with school books in it provoked me enough to want to get out and shoot them.. but that's just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ron you should not get a gun anytime soon. Last thing I want to see is you on the news for killing some kid for stealing your books. Seriously, you do not need a firearm of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_Man Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Ron you should not get a gun anytime soon. Last thing I want to see is you on the news for killing some kid for stealing your books. Seriously, you do not need a firearm of any sort. Lol I wouldn't kill anyone, or I hope not. I really wish though that we could all live care-free from all these criminals walking around with guns and just have the piece of mind that we're safe in our own homes.. sadly, today guns give people some support. I just wish guns were never invented.. real men handle problems with their hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 If you are inexperienced, I agree with going with the shotgun. Are Rottweilers allowed where you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Go buy some "Beware of the dog" signs or maybe an NRA sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cept One Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 http://1stlinesecurity.com/adtam1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 By the way guys, just so you know Virginia does NOT have a Castle or Home Defense or Stand Your Ground law. Wiki Article on Castle Doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_My_Day_State A little more credible than Wikipedia: http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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