Our entire offensive line is OLD,(merged)

[Chump Bailey]

It's time to start re-stocking our O-line. Even most of our backups are long in the tooth or injury-prone (Wade comes to mind here.)

LG:

Think about it, we've got 1-2 years (maybe) with Kendall, contract-wise and knees-wise.

RT

:

Jansen has to be a question-mark now. So, is it Heyer to the rescue?

LT and RG:

I'm assuming

that Thomas and Samuels stay injury-free. However, if they go down, I suppose we'll have to rely on stalwarts like Heyer and Fabini to man their positions. (Unless Heyer is already covering for Jansen.)

C:

However, if Rabach were to get injured -- who do we have? Pucillo? Or the all-purpose Lorenzo Alexander?

We shouldn't wait much longer to upgrade our pool of O-line talent. Let's give Bugel some really good material to work with -- as he develops his last batch of Redskins linemen.

Spot on....

[Sonny9TD]

Anything else is unacceptible. He is the only sure thing we are considering. Let's make this one work. No CB and no DL or WR until round 2 and 3 and 3. Not necessarily in that order. Two 3rd round picks you know. So let it be written. So let it be done.

:point2sky

[fansince62]

Harping on the age of the Offensive Line has gotten old. Keep saying the same things over and over again. Just because you rewrite the sentiments that were expressed previously, does not mean it is something new.

yes...and if you tap your heels three times we'll be back in the land of o-line OZ!

- the injuries are a pattern

- aging (as well as the accumulated damage) is a fact with known consequences

- the line has had problems...signiifcant ones....in not just one season but several. in short, a pattern:

. it has repeatedely been unable to physically control the line of scrimmage at the goal line

. it has repeatedy been unable top control the line of scrimmage in short yardage situations

. it has been physically overmatched up the center (this has improved from where it was with Raymer at C.....but still a problem area)

. no matter what anyone says...right tackle has been a merry-go-round for 3 years now. common sense suggests that that is a problem needing a fix

. we all know part of the source of JC's fumbling problems (aside from some mechanics issues) was a break down in pass blocking off the edges

I'd say blaming injuries year after year has gotten old. we have one drafted starter on the o-line. if the strategy really is to go in-house...then the o-line is as good a place as any to start. o-line isn't as sexy as some overpriced wr....but it sure does appear to an area of need demanding more thought than the reverse logic of better linemen are drafted in the lower rounds. a strategy that does not appear to have served the Skins very well over the last 5-6 years.

[coyote4848]

It seems like us older heads are on the same page. The lines are what win you football games. Without them you are not winning.

The reason is that the younger crowd wants to see that "sexy" pic at a skill position. They think offensive lines just block and it doesn't matter who is there. What they don't realize is that you can have 2 CJs and it doesn't matter if JC can't have time to throw the ball. I'm with you on this......it starts on the lines.....it's nice to have big guys at the skill positions, but you have to block in order for those skill guys to do what they do. Btw, how did Larry Johnson make out last year without his probowlers blocking for him? How about S. Alexander without Hutch? I know it's kinda boring to get these big burley guys on the inside.........but, we need them!

[Wyvern]

Nice post from BedlamVR.

I agree, unless one of the better DE's or DT's falls to #21, the Skins would be wise to use the pick on a top-shelf G like Brandon Albert and prepare for the day when Kendall leaves. (I also think Albert would never slide to our pick in the second round, unless we traded up considerably.

Generally most ES fans understand the Skins will have to start preparing for changes of of O-line personnel. However we should also realize that the contracts for Jansen and Thomas may deter the FO from pursuing top-ranked draftees to replace them in the short run. Until its obvious Jansen and Thomas are too injured to play, they'll be playing and the FO isn't likely to invest a 1-rounders' salaries for a backup O-lineman who'll have to wait a few years.

That said I should mention my surprise at ES fans seeming complacency about long-term situation at Center. Now Rabach has done well, but remember he was already a well-regarded center we brought through free agency. Barring a Nick Mangold or LeCharles Bentley most NFL centers do take some time to develop in their particular offensive scheme. Where's our center-in-waiting?

So maybe it would be wise to consider drafting Rabach's backup/replacement in this draft and commence the grooming now. Do it now when the action is driven more about developing skilled depth rather than rushing to replace age. And if Rabach happened to get injured, we'd have another option to rely on rather than than our punt-snapping specialist, Ethan Albright.

We should at least look for some low-round development type like Matt Spanos of USC.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

I think we have great online, although they are old. Rabach, Samuels, Thomas I think still got some real good years left. Kendall is old and Jansen (while one of my favorite redskins) definitely might be starting wear down with all of the injuries hes had over the years. I think Lorenzo Alexander is definitely an idea to explore at LG because of his athleticism, i think we would make a traffic run blocking guard. Heyer is definitely a project to continue to work on. Pucillo apparent is not healthy so we definitely need to draft a center, another guard, and tackle. While they shouldnt have to replace our linemen unless they are injured in the near future, it would be great to groom them now.

[Skins4ever1]

yes...and if you tap your heels three times we'll be back in the land of o-line OZ!

- the injuries are a pattern

- aging (as well as the accumulated damage) is a fact with known consequences

- the line has had problems...signiifcant ones....in not just one season but several. in short, a pattern:

. it has repeatedely been unable to physically control the line of scrimmage at the goal line

. it has repeatedy been unable top control the line of scrimmage in short yardage situations

. it has been physically overmatched up the center (this has improved from where it was with Raymer at C.....but still a problem area)

. no matter what anyone says...right tackle has been a merry-go-round for 3 years now. common sense suggests that that is a problem needing a fix

. we all know part of the source of JC's fumbling problems (aside from some mechanics issues) was a break down in pass blocking off the edges

I'd say blaming injuries year after year has gotten old. we have one drafted starter on the o-line. if the strategy really is to go in-house...then the o-line is as good a place as any to start. o-line isn't as sexy as some overpriced wr....but it sure does appear to an area of need demanding more thought than the reverse logic of better linemen are drafted in the lower rounds. a strategy that does not appear to have served the Skins very well over the last 5-6 years.

I could not have said it better myself.

[Skins4ever1]

Nice post from BedlamVR.

I agree, unless one of the better DE's or DT's falls to #21, the Skins would be wise to use the pick on a top-shelf G like Brandon Albert and prepare for the day when Kendall leaves. (I also think Albert would never slide to our pick in the second round, unless we traded up considerably.

Generally most ES fans understand the Skins will have to start preparing for changes of of O-line personnel. However we should also realize that the contracts for Jansen and Thomas may deter the FO from pursuing top-ranked draftees to replace them in the short run. Until its obvious Jansen and Thomas are too injured to play, they'll be playing and the FO isn't likely to invest a 1-rounders' salaries for a backup O-lineman who'll have to wait a few years.

That said I should mention my surprise at ES fans seeming complacency about long-term situation at Center. Now Rabach has done well, but remember he was already a well-regarded center we brought through free agency. Barring a Nick Mangold or LeCharles Bentley most NFL centers do take some time to develop in their particular offensive scheme. Where's our center-in-waiting?

So maybe it would be wise to consider drafting Rabach's backup/replacement in this draft and commence the grooming now. Do it now when the action is driven more about developing skilled depth rather than rushing to replace age. And if Rabach happened to get injured, we'd have another option to rely on rather than than our punt-snapping specialist, Ethan Albright.

We should at least look for some low-round development type like Matt Spanos of USC.

Albert lloks like he could be another Shawn Andrews. I would love to take a chance on him. Andrews for the Eagles is probably the best Guard in football. IF he is anything like Andrews we are sitting pretty.

[TheLongshot]

I didn't make a 'Snyder remark' Jason. I said, accurately, that whatever personnel decisions were made, ultimately, Cerrato would have the final call.

Are you arguing that?

What you 'can't help' is distorting people's arguments, then countering statements no one has actually made Just don't try it with me - as I am not going to let it fly.

If you want to argue something I've actually said, have at it. Otherwise....

The comment I'm talking about is the first sentence of that post:

Its not a question of 'why would Vinny?', its a fact that Cerrato has Snyder's ear.

If you are arguing that Vinny has the final call, why would you say that? The only conclusion I could come to is that you are suggesting that Snyder is going to have far more influence. If that's not what you are suggesting, then I apologize, but I can only gather things from what you say.

Jason

[PorkSkins]

It wouldn't bother me if we drafted an O'lineman first. We need some youth. I just want to see the personnel issues addressed accurately. We don't need to draft another safety and if we can't get the WR we think we need in the second round, then we need to look at both of the lines. I would prefer a pass rushing defensive lineman with the first pick. This has been an issue for several years.

[fansince62]

Its not a question of 'why would Vinny?', its a fact that Cerrato has Snyder's ear. Given his promotion, thats more than just a fact. That means that ultimately its Cerrato who decides who we draft. Period. Its not debatable. I never said he was 'oblivious' - so thats your word, not mine. As for age - I agree and disagree. Some players seem to be ageless, others, it matters. Jansen's clearly injury-prone, and we need to be looking for a successor. The 'Pro Bowl' argument is pointless, as fans repeatedly ignore the truth about players, and buy into the hype/reputation.

And again, did I use the word 'desperate'? No. Still - we have historically given short shrift to the lines. And its cost us late in the season, again and again.

Btw, Sellars is overrated in the extreme. He's never lived up to his own self-promotion. He's a physical specimen who rarely does on the field what he talks about doing off it. Age has nothing to do with it.

Tar..agree in the main with your line of thinking....especially the hype portion.....in fact especially the hype part....cuz that's what usually lies behind the "player X is top quality...all-pro...playing at a high level...is one of the best in the division" stuff we hear every off-season. and every season we see the same phenomena: injuries, inconsistent performance, etc., etc.....desperate runs for the playoffs and early departures.

the results just don't marry up with the prognostications/beliefs in talent level.

[jujuskinsfan]

I agree an OL in the draft is a priority. We also have Lorenzo Alexander, we should give him a try at a starting job this preseason.

[cjbrown]

I think is a matter of perspective and knowing the game. The older guys remember the dlines of the Raiders, Vikings, and steelers and the olines of the Bills (O.J.) We know that 2000 yd rushing seasons, start with the line. Jansen is in decline and with age soon our other lineman will soon begin to get more injuries and decline.

On gameday everyone sees the great catch or the great run, but they don't show too many clips of when the extra unaccounted for probowler is coming and gets picked up on the 8 yrd screen and the drive keeps going. We see the bomb on the next play.

Nor are there stats on average time to penetration or movement in the pocket by the quarterback to disrupt rhythm. These are nuances of O-LINE play that keep drives going. If we do not start drafting new starting o-lineman soon we are going to have some very big problems. The new coach I am sure knows this, so I am not so worried about what the board thinks. I would be extremely disappointed if the coach did not address the starting o-line issue this draft with replacements for Jansen, and Kendall (age 34 ?).

[DirtySkin21]

I agree an OL in the draft is a priority. We also have Lorenzo Alexander, we should give him a try at a starting job this preseason.

we have Alexander and Heyer, alot of people forget that we signed those two guys as UDFA, they will BOTH make an impact on our team. Alexander is exceptionally useful to us as he can play both sides of the ball, and He has heart. ( that helmetless tackle he made in preseason last year)

I'm pretty happy in the direction we are going. As I know you can't fix everything all at once. IT's gradually getting done, and thats what matters. After this darft, I would imagine we will have enough young talent and depth to help aid the aging lines. (Dline, or O-line is needed)

The reason Heyer and Alexander did so well is because of bugel, and our vet players. THey have helped out the rookies tremendously and is shortens that learning curve when you have someone telling you the tricks of the trade and how to do everything much more effective and easier.

[#98QBKiller]

I don't understand how everyone can be yelling to trade our high picks away for some loud mouth WR when we have some serious issues on the horizon. The entire offensive line is atleast 30 or older. Thats not good people. They are already showing signs that they can't stay healthy. The most important part of your football team is your offensive and defensive lines. Of course QB is very important too but come on. We are not one very good WR away from winning a SB. Its time to face reality before its too late. This team needs youth ready to step in on both lines. I dont care what WRs you have because if you have a bad offensive line they mean NOTHING.

:applause:

I don't know how I missed this post yesterday but damn good one. I really don't understand the people wanting to piss away our 1st round pick (and possible others) on a WR or CB when we're soft in the middle of the field and need to start addressing those concerns ASAP.

We do need a WR, but why not address that through the draft as well? We need to start adding depth and/or starters to the middle of the field on both sides of the ball.

[Thoth]

Preach on, brother.

Not that anyone will listen.

We are NOT a SB contender. Ironically, by the time JC learns new offense and is a solid starter, we'll have to rebuild the OL.

People seem to forget our OL went down early last year, ending our season effectively. Remember Campbell getting hurt and lost for season because of inadequate protection?

This draft, unfortunately, does not seem deep at G. We need to add a high quality OL, not just some late round afterthought.

Regardless, I'm sure our first 3 picks will be WR, CB, DE.

We'll have major injuries to OL again, and everyone will call it bad luck instead of poor planning.

[DirtySkin21]

I think is a matter of perspective and knowing the game. The older guys remember the dlines of the Raiders, Vikings, and steelers and the olines of the Bills (O.J.) We know that 2000 yd rushing seasons, start with the line. Jansen is in decline and with age soon our other lineman will soon begin to get more injuries and decline.

On gameday everyone sees the great catch or the great run, but they don't show too many clips of when the extra unaccounted for probowler is coming and gets picked up on the 8 yrd screen and the drive keeps going. We see the bomb on the next play.

Nor are there stats on average time to penetration or movement in the pocket by the quarterback to disrupt rhythm. These are nuances of O-LINE play that keep drives going. If we do not start drafting new starting o-lineman soon we are going to have some very big problems. The new coach I am sure knows this, so I am not so worried about what the board thinks. I would be extremely disappointed if the coach did not address the starting o-line issue this draft with replacements for Jansen, and Kendall (age 34 ?).

the broncos line that T.Davis ran for 2,008 yards wasnt young, in fact... the redskins had let go of Mark Schlereth who played on that broncos team that year they won the SB 32. The redskins had let go of MArk Schlereth becasue he was too old. but yet he still produced, and won another superbowl.

[shamuskb]

Yeah old and experienced. Um why dont we say draft a lineman or two. we arent trading a pick for a WR YOU guys talk of that. um heyer? all we need is line depth dude we wil do just as well if not better this year.

[DirtySkin21]

Yeah old and experienced. Um why dont we say draft a lineman or two. we arent trading a pick for a WR YOU guys talk of that. um heyer? all we need is line depth dude we wil do just as well if not better this year.

I dont really understand what you are trying to say dude? It's hard for me to read what you're saying because you have run on sentences and stuff. Can you please correct that? thanks man ( im not trying to be an ass, but I really cant comprehend what you are trying to get at)

[TheLongshot]

the broncos line that T.Davis ran for 2,008 yards wasnt young, in fact... the redskins had let go of Mark Schlereth who played on that broncos team that year they won the SB 32. The redskins had let go of MArk Schlereth becasue he was too old. but yet he still produced, and won another superbowl.

Actually, the main reason why we let him go was because of his multiple knee injuries. In his career he had 20 surgeries on his knees alone.

Course, that is also proof that even coming off of injuries a player can still be an effective lineman in the NFL.

Jason

[Skins4ever1]

I know an old saying at it goes something like this. Its always better to let go of a player a year too early then a year too late.

[Equinoox]

:applause: I really don't understand the people wanting to piss away our 1st round pick (and possible others) on a WR or CB when we're soft in the middle of the field and need to start addressing those concerns ASAP.

We do need a WR, but why not address that through the draft as well? We need to start adding depth and/or starters to the middle of the field on both sides of the ball.

Most want a WR, because that is where we are the weakest. We need a first day starter on WR with some size. It would help our redzone offense immediatly unlike an OL. WR is where we were the weakest due to no height.

You pick 1st and 2nd rounders for an immediate starter. Our line is very solid and doesn't need an immediate starter. Yeah last year we were not our best, due to early injuries. But, in '06 we were dominant. I believe our OL is still very good, cabable of repeating a season like '06, and not our weakness. Picking up an OG, like Albert, would not be a bad pick in the first round but a reach. You can find a solid OG later in the rounds, which is the norm. 1st round is for a skill position; for OL it would be an OT.

[DirtySkin21]

Actually, the main reason why we let him go was because of his multiple knee injuries. In his career he had 20 surgeries on his knees alone.

Course, that is also proof that even coming off of injuries a player can still be an effective lineman in the NFL.

Jason

right, and those surgeries (like randy thomas's) people think they are due to age. My point is, just because a player has a string of injuries or is aging, doesnt mean they cant be effective. Football is a contact sport, so people will get hurt. You just have to be good enough to know when your player is done, and they stop producing.

And people are different, you cant base ones injuries, health, and age as a guide to when people should be let go. IT seems if anyone is near 30, everyone around here is like "NO, TOO OLD"

it's crap though, there has been plenty of teams who have won with a mix of VETS and younger players.

THe patriots aren't too damn bad.. you just gotta know what positions to play the players. No matter young or old, the best players should be on the field at all times.

[DirtySkin21]

Most want a WR, because that is where we are the weakest. We need a first day starter on WR with some size. It would help our redzone offense immediatly unlike an OL. WR is where we were the weakest due to no height.

You pick 1st and 2nd rounders for an immediate starter. Our line is very solid and doesn't need an immediate starter. Yeah last year we were not our best, due to early injuries. But, in '06 we were dominant. I believe our OL is still very good, cabable of repeating a season like '06, and not our weakness. Picking up an OG, like Albert, would not be a bad pick in the first round but a reach. You can find a solid OG later in the rounds, which is the norm. 1st round is for a skill position; for OL it would be an OT.

maybe so, but we are going to be running the WCO, which means we are capable of running with our WR's like they are.. IT would be nice to get a WR with size, but theres no point in reaching for one, or wasting a pick on one. WE aren't good at drafting WR at ALL. IM not for it. I say we stick to picking up our WR's from other teams.

[Equinoox]

Here is what most teams do when drafting a guard.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jm-offensiveguards022307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Between 1999 and 2006, Lewis Kelly, Kynan Forney, Rick DeMulling, Scott Wells, William Whitticker and Mark Setterstrom, all of whom were drafted in the seventh round, were able to become starting guards in their first pro season.

I believe we need to draft OL for depth.