Dobbs:New World Order Can Be Defeated

[GibbsFactor]

Okay, then let's talk about nationism vs globalism economies.

I for one do not know which is better. I have no clue. I do know that with one currency it would be a lot easier to manipulate. Sure there are benefits for trade and travel, but it takes away from the countries that produce and helps the countries that can't. It's a lot easier to have control with one currency as well. I just see it spiraling out of control to the point that I don't like. Too much power in one place is not good. And the fact is, he who controls the money, has the power.

[Koolblue13]

I am perfectly happy to have a conversation about economic nationism versus globalization. That is a real conversation about real things.

So are conversations about the wrongs of the Patriot Act, the idiocy in Iraq, the relative merits of the various candidates for President, the problems with Medicare, or who is hotter: Natalie Portman or Melissa Thiereau. All of these are real subjects of real concern.

I am tired of conversations about 9/11 conspiracies, Fed conspiracies, CFR conspiracies, the Mark of the Beast, etc. Those conversations are an exercise in frustration, because people just make stuff up, and then beleive stuff that other people just made up a week ago, and everyone gets stupider.

I think it is a legitimate distinction.

Then why do you get so involved, instead of just looking away?

I just can't believe all these things have no relation, when it just continues to look like it does.

Last year, there was no chance of a NAU and I would have been poked fun at, called an idiot for bringing it up. Now, we are passing things in congress to fund it. Mexicos pres said it would have happened. We know for a fact its going to happen at the rate we are going, but some still dismiss it. The fact that groups like the CFR are behind it and have publicly stated it to be true, IMO, proves merit to thier groups impact on our future.

[GibbsFactor]

Personally, I talk about technology standards with people from all over the World every week related to my particular field of interest. We often collectively promote standards and try to influcence policy on a national or international basis. But to characterize it as a conspiracy can only be described as lunacy.

:2cents:

Dude, you are referring to standards and protocols that have to exist for the very thing to even work. Not comparable.

[Mad Mike]

So does that meen you think this has merit?

Not one shred. I do find it funny that the libertarian conspiracy theory society you referenced was against the civil rights movement because the thought the commies were behind it. The sarcasm I was referring to was when I said they could be trusted.

I also love the irony of people saying that others should have an open mind, then talking about putting someone on their ignore list who disagrees with their point of view. Way to have an open mind.

America IS getting dumber. People buying into idiot conspiracy theories get in the way of real discussions about real problems. Globalization is happening because it makes sense to happen. Unless of course you are against people in other parts of the world actually being able to make enough money to eat. Or unless you think america should just close it's borders and wish for an alternate reality where global travel, trade and communications do not exist. The real question is how do we face the challenges that will come with it, not how do we stick our heads in the sand and make it go away because like it or not the world is changing. Not because of some idiot conspiracy, but because things change.

End rant.... for now. :doh:

[GibbsFactor]

Then why do you get so involved, instead of just looking away?

I just can't believe all these things have no relation, when it just continues to look like it does.

Last year, there was no chance of a NAU and I would have been poked fun at, called an idiot for bringing it up. Now, we are passing things in congress to fund it. Mexicos pres said it would have happened. We know for a fact its going to happen at the rate we are going, but some still dismiss it. The fact that groups like the CFR are behind it and have publicly stated it to be true, IMO, proves merit to thier groups impact on our future.

Exactly. We fund Mexico to build up their border, we won't secure our own borders, we won't kick anyone out of the country, we make sure our dollar is equal or less then the loony, our candidates say there's no way they get rid of managed trade agreements like NAMTA (no way I'm calling that crap free trade).

Open your eyes and stop thinking you are smarter then everyone else. It's going to happen. Do you have any idea how easy it would be for our dollar to completely crash right now?

[Corcaigh]

Dude, you are referring to standards and protocols that have to exist for the very thing to even work. Not comparable.

I disagree. There's a lot more to tech standards than 1s and 0s.

[GibbsFactor]

Not one shred. I do find it funny that the libertarian conspiracy theory society you referenced was against the civil rights movement because the thought the commies were behind it. The sarcasm I was referring to was when I said they could be trusted.

I also love the irony of people saying that others should have an open mind, then talking about putting someone on their ignore list who disagrees with their point of view. Way to have an open mind.

America IS getting dumber. People buying into idiot conspiracy theories get in the way of real discussions about real problems. Globalization is happening because it makes sense to happen. Unless of course you are against people in other parts of the world actually being able to make enough money to eat. Or unless you think america should just close it's borders and wish for an alternate reality where global travel, trade and communications do not exist. The real question is how do we face the challenges that will come with it, not how do we stick our heads in the sand and make it go away because like it or not the world is changing. Not because of some idiot conspiracy, but because things change.

End rant.... for now. :doh:

Okay, I'm more then happy to debate the merits of globalization.

Again, I'm not for it or against it but I do want to make sure I know what the deal is before it just happens. This government has a habit of pulling surprises on the American people and I think it's my duty to question why.

So in a one world government answer these questions for me:

1. How do leaders get chosen?

2. How is the economy run?

3. What's the basic economic structure?

4. What political philosophy is used?

5. Who makes the new laws of the land?

I can guarantee you that no one on this site will have any say into any of that.

Here's my problem with it all. The majority of Americans want secure borders for a variety of reasons. Our government tells us they will obey and then does none of our bidding. We are losing our rights to our own country. If we can't control the US Government, there's no way we control a one world government. Forget about it. We already take marching orders from unelected officials. People forget why this country was formed.

But hey, it makes sense to be global. The world is shrinking. It's all inevitable. Who cares how it happens. Sit back and actually think about this for once instead of saying it makes sense.

Why does it make sense? Do you think the entire world will be like America or will America turn more into the rest of the world? Think about it.

[Predicto]

Then why do you get so involved, instead of just looking away?

That's a very good question. A lot of people here do. I don't know why.

Last year, there was no chance of a NAU and I would have been poked fun at, called an idiot for bringing it up. Now, we are passing things in congress [THAT SOMEONE SOMEWHERE THINKS MUST BE RELATED] to fund[iNG] it. Mexicos pres said [sOMETHING THAT SOMEONE INTERPRETED AS MEANING] it would have happened. We know for a[N ASSUMED] fact its going to happen at the rate we are going [bECAUSE SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET FEARS IT MIGHT] but some still dismiss it. The fact that groups like the CFR are behind it [ACCORDING TO SOME CONSPIRACY THEORIST] and have publicly stated [sOMETHING THAT SOMEONE HAS INTERPRETED] to be [EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING THEY FEAR MIGHT BE TRUE], IMO, proves merit to thier groups impact on our future.

Do you see what I did there. I'm not trying to be insulting. But this is how I read your post. And I'm not the only one. I'm the only one who still bothers to respond.

[Predicto]

Okay, I'm more then happy to debate the merits of globalization.

Again, I'm not for it or against it but I do want to make sure I know what the deal is before it just happens. This government has a habit of pulling surprises on the American people and I think it's my duty to question why.

So in a one world government answer these questions for me:

1. How do leaders get chosen?

2. How is the economy run?

3. What's the basic economic structure?

4. What political philosophy is used?

5. Who makes the new laws of the land?

I can guarantee you that no one on this site will have any say into any of that.

Here's my problem with it all. The majority of Americans want secure borders for a variety of reasons. Our government tells us they will obey and then does none of our bidding. We are losing our rights to our own country. If we can't control the US Government, there's no way we control a one world government. Forget about it. We already take marching orders from unelected officials. People forget why this country was formed.

But hey, it makes sense to be global. The world is shrinking. It's all inevitable. Who cares how it happens. Sit back and actually think about this for once instead of saying it makes sense.

Why does it make sense? Do you think the entire world will be like America or will America turn more into the rest of the world? Think about it.

Economic globalism does not mean One World Government.

You just made the EXACT huge leap of logic I was talking about before. You didn't even realize you were doing it.

[Mad Mike]

Economic globalism does not mean One World Government.

You just made the EXACT huge leap of logic I was talking about before. You didn't even realize you were doing it.

Ding.

[Koolblue13]

Not one shred. I do find it funny that the libertarian conspiracy theory society you referenced was against the civil rights movement because the thought the commies were behind it. The sarcasm I was referring to was when I said they could be trusted.

I also love the irony of people saying that others should have an open mind, then talking about putting someone on their ignore list who disagrees with their point of view. Way to have an open mind.

America IS getting dumber. People buying into idiot conspiracy theories get in the way of real discussions about real problems. Globalization is happening because it makes sense to happen. Unless of course you are against people in other parts of the world actually being able to make enough money to eat. Or unless you think america should just close it's borders and wish for an alternate reality where global travel, trade and communications do not exist. The real question is how do we face the challenges that will come with it, not how do we stick our heads in the sand and make it go away because like it or not the world is changing. Not because of some idiot conspiracy, but because things change.

End rant.... for now. :doh:

I just don't see the point of putting so much focus on the future when our foundation is crumbling.

[GibbsFactor]

Economic globalism does not mean One World Government.

You just made the EXACT huge leap of logic I was talking about before. You didn't even realize you were doing it.

And this is my exact problem with you and the way you think. You just told me what I was doing as any good progressive would. Fact is, I meant to make that leap because it will be made. Do you understand how the EU works? Do you realize they are using a fiat money system via one central bank? Now, take that same theory and apply it to multiple "unions". The United States of Africa, the AU, the SAU, the NAU, along with the EU. One problem, there's still about 5 or 6 monies in the world. Not the goal.

The goal is to have one money for all, correct? It's just easier that way. So let's combine them all and just call ourselves, Earth. Great. Terrific. Now monies are the same all over Tera. Of course we have one central bank as well, it doesn't make sense to have so many countries dealing with the central bank, so that gets consolidated. It's a natural progression. Globalized economy means globalized government. One cannot exist without the other.

[Koolblue13]

That's a very good question. A lot of people here do. I don't know why.

Do you see what I did there. I'm not trying to be insulting. But this is how I read your post. And I'm not the only one. I'm the only one who still bothers to respond.

Alrighty then. I guess we just see it differently. I'm looking at things, thinking about it and responding. When I read your posts, I take them for what you've said.

[Koolblue13]

I'm not running away, I'm going to work. I'm sure my arguement will greatly improve around midnight, when I'm half in the bag. I'll see yas then.

[GibbsFactor]

That's a very good question. A lot of people here do. I don't know why.

Do you see what I did there. I'm not trying to be insulting. But this is how I read your post. And I'm not the only one. I'm the only one who still bothers to respond.

The President of Mexico said it's in the works. No one interpreted. He said it in English on Larry King.

Also, Rockefeller did make those quotes. No one is interpretting anything. They said it in plain english. :doh:

[Mad Mike]

I just don't see the point of putting so much focus on the future when our foundation is crumbling.

What focus? The changes are going to happen, like it or not. You might as well pine away for the days of travel by horse. We travel by car noow because people wanted to go faster and farther, not because car companies conspired to make horses go away.

[GibbsFactor]

What focus? The changes are going to happen, like it or not. You might as well pine away for the days of travel by horse. We travel by car noow because people wanted to go faster and farther, not because car companies conspired to make horses go away.

That's all fine and dandy. All I'm asking is who decides what. That's all.

Again, I understand we are moving towards globalization. I just don't want it to happen over night while I'm asleep and find out my Constitution no longer protects me. That's all.

Will it happen like that? I hope not. Could it? Absolutely.

[Predicto]

And this is my exact problem with you and the way you think. You just told me what I was doing as any good progressive would. Fact is, I meant to make that leap because it will be made. Do you understand how the EU works? Do you realize they are using a fiat money system via one central bank? Now, take that same theory and apply it to multiple "unions". The United States of Africa, the AU, the SAU, the NAU, along with the EU. One problem, there's still about 5 or 6 monies in the world. Not the goal.

The goal is to have one money for all, correct? It's just easier that way. So let's combine them all and just call ourselves, Earth. Great. Terrific. Now monies are the same all over Tera. Of course we have one central bank as well, it doesn't make sense to have so many countries dealing with the central bank, so that gets consolidated. It's a natural progression. Globalized economy means globalized government. One cannot exist without the other.

Of course I understand how the EU works. That is what they wanted to do over there. More power to them.

The assumption that the same thing must be happening here is a leap of logic and proof. Globalized economy does NOT mean globalized government. It means interdependent economies with ever increasing trade. It does not mean abrogating national sovereignity unless you want it to mean that.

[Predicto]

That's all fine and dandy. All I'm asking is who decides what. That's all.

Again, I understand we are moving towards globalization. I just don't want it to happen over night while I'm asleep and find out my Constitution no longer protects me. That's all.

Will it happen like that? I hope not. Could it? Absolutely.

No it couldn't unless there was a violent overthrow of the government. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. No treaty abogates the Constitution. Only amendments to the Constitution can do that, and there is a specific way to do that (and it aint easy and if it happens you will have your say).

[Predicto]

The President of Mexico said it's in the works. No one interpreted. He said it in English on Larry King.

By interpreting I didn't mean "interpreting from Spanish to English."

I meant interpreting by placing the most sinister and broad meaning upon his words, assuming a level of significance and meaning that the speaker did not intend to make.

Which happens all the time in these dicussions.

[Stophovr6]

No it couldn't unless there was a violent overthrow of the government. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. No treaty abogates the Constitution. Only amendments to the Constitution can do that, and there is a specific way to do that (and it aint easy and if it happens you will have your say).

So you're saying blackwater will have to come in and put us all in FEMA camps and take over with marshall law for this to happen?

I wonder where i've heard that before?

[Predicto]

Alrighty then. I guess we just see it differently. I'm looking at things, thinking about it and responding. When I read your posts, I take them for what you've said.

When you make a factual statement like "it is known that X equals Y"

and I have reason to think that there is no legitimate proof that X equals Y and every reason to believe that it doesn't,

then I can't take that statement at face value.

[GibbsFactor]

No it couldn't unless there was a violent overthrow of the government. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. No treaty abogates the Constitution. Only amendments to the Constitution can do that, and there is a specific way to do that (and it aint easy and if it happens you will have your say).

You are wrong. The UN already does.

[Predicto]

You are wrong. The UN already does.

No it does not. We are a member of the UN voluntarily, but the rules of the UN do not override the US Constitution inside the US.

There are consequences for not agreeing with the UN (not really of course, because we have a veto) but the UN does not override the constitution or abrogate US soverignity.

[GibbsFactor]

Of course I understand how the EU works. That is what they wanted to do over there. More power to them.

The assumption that the same thing must be happening here is a leap of logic and proof. Globalized economy does NOT mean globalized government. It means interdependent economies with ever increasing trade. It does not mean abrogating national sovereignity unless you want it to mean that.

If you want a Globalized economy, do nothing because it's already here. You and I are defining globalization differently.

Isn't it international integration?