Art Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Assuming deals for Bowen and Coles go through, the Redskins have 15 starting players, of 22, who were starting players on the roster a year ago still starting. Eight on defense and seven on offense. Additionally, Bruce Smith, David Terrell, Tre Johnson and Kenny Watson/Ladell Betts, who played starting roles to end last season all remain in reserve roles to start this season. At least projected reserve roles. We've lost Davis, Gardener, Thompson and Loverne. They have been replaced by Canidate, Noble, Coles and Thomas. While this whirlwind of activity is taking place, the fact remains, the Redskins are remaining more in tact as a team than many of us have taken the time to consider. As we've discussed, as much as Davis is respected for his work here, it ought not be difficult to replace him in this system given his productivity last year here. Gardener remains a big loss, but an open question remained as to whether he could even match his performance from last year, though, this is a tough loss for us without question. The positives of the offseason so far appear to greatly outweigh the negatives, and there is a great deal of retention now for the first time in years. Ramsey has a lot of work to do, but by the time he's ready, he would appear to have people around him capable of being taken as far as he can take them. That's not always been the case for us in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SkinsHokie Fan Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 As has been said on this board and other places Ramsey is the key to next season. If he were to flourish and the offense explodes it takes pressure off the defense. The defense should continue to be solid just by having the same system for 2 years in a row. If Ramsey takes the step many of us expect out of him look for a Super Bowl run in 2004 when we bring back all of the starters (hopefully Champ also) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Obviously a "straight" projection for Ramsey is not all that beneficial. But, if one were inclined to imagine, one could see Ramsey, given 16 games as a QB based off his rookie numbers, having the following stats: 3517 yards, 51.5 completion percentage, 21 TDs and 18 INTs. In all, such a season, given the general state of the line and the emerging ability, though inconsistent ability, of the receivers, would have been remarkable. Obviously, Ramsey only had seven games, and, again, a straight projection isn't very helpful other than to put into perspective just how effective he was as a rookie. If one can envision Ramsey getting smarter in the offense this year, and one certainly can do nothing but, it goes to figure he'll improve his completion percentage. Even just to 55 percent, and with his weapons and new line, this might be enough to be a playoff team if injuries are avoided and the team comes together quickly enough. A lot does ride on Ramsey, but, it is not hard to see him improve just a little and still be plenty to give us a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorEye Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I wont profess to have knowledge of the players and cap like you do, but the loss of Gardener notwithstanding, I'd be happy going into next season if we did nothing but replaced our kicker and punter. With another year of experience from the coaches to the QB and the realization we can't possibly commit as many critical turnovers as we did last year, how could you not feel good about next year? Fortunately we upgraded in enough areas to make me really excited about next year. Of course the punter issue is yet to be resolved, but give Danny time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 1. Ramsey's development will in large measure determine how far the team goes. There is talent at other positions, especially now with the changes on the OL and anticipated at WR. 2. This is a YOUNG team. These free agents are mid-career players and are being added to a team with a lot of younger core guys. Of the starters now listed how many are over 30? Not many. None in the backfield. None at wide receiver. None on the offensive line. None at tight end. On defense Upshaw (27) takes over on run downs for Smith (40). Ohalete (24) has replaced Shade (31) as a full-time starter. The only starters over 30 are Wilkinson (31) and Armstead (32). 3. The Redskins can improve a bit and still find the NFC East a dogfight. The Giants are a mix of veterans and younger players and have made strides in improving their special teams adding Mitchell and Feagles. The Eagles are still a 10 plus win team even with the anticipated loss of Douglas and the departure of Barber and Harris. 4. The signing of Coles (25) may be close to or even ahead of the Thomas signing in importance to the team. The Redskins have not had a receiver with his productivity since Henry Ellard had a 1,300 yard season in 1995 for the club. And Henry was doing most of that on the short and intermediate stuff at age 33. Coles makes the team's offense better from the moment he steps on the field, and that is something that may or may not have been the case with a top draft choice that figured to take his time adjusting to the NFL. 5. Peter King and others may have crossed Betts and Watson off their list and all but conceded the starting TB job to Canidate but I don't see it that way. I see a dogfight with guys competing for playing time. Ultimately, I think we could see Betts running the ball on the early downs and Canidate coming in as the change of pace, big play receiver/runner on third and long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Bulldog, I would like to see Betts emerge as well. I was just listing the projections at this time that we've seen in the Post with regard to Canidate. With the addition of Hall at kicker and Coles, we really simply need to add a quality punter -- though Barker is still around, is he not? -- and a difference maker on the defensive line to be one heck of a team in 2004 assuming Ramsey's the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I am still torn between trying to trade Smoot and grabbing a franchise DT or keeping Smoot and trying to land a capable DT in an abundant year for talent in round 2.............. I wish I knew the extent to which Spurrier and the staff have issues with Fred. I hope if we keep him he doesn't become a malcontent knowing he was shopped around. I always thought that with Bailey holding down franchise dollars on the one side, that whomever the Skins started opposite would be a candidate to leave if they performed well. Certainly that will be the case with Fred now as I am sure there is some bad blood with the organization even if he does remain for 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I just hope the hoopla of these signings doensn't become a burden of extra pressure on Ramsey to perform, thus causing him to falter and not meet our expectations. He has never done so in his football careeer, and I hope it won't happen. I think he is tough, smart and is level headed. I truely feel that is the only serious problem we are faced with. Injuries I feel won't hamper us as we are quite deep now. Granted, we want to be injury free obviously........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Art...concur on your thoughts with following qualifications: - the players (not just Wilkie) themselves have stated that DC has been a merry-go-round personnel wise and that this has disrupted team chemistry and continuity. the recent changes will only exacerbate this. - gardener will prove to be a HUGE loss. once he established himself he was the difference maker everything else turned on. is ability to penetrate ito the backfield with amzing regularity was extremely disruptive and created opportunities for others. if we do not develop a pass rush (and I don't see it in the group of players we have now)....it is going to be a very long season nexet year....with all of us praising the offense and cussing the defense each weekend....we've seen this before! - the combination of personnel turnover and injuries on defense spells high uncertainty to me both for the starters and the rotation. if we play a similar defense to last s eason's w e are back in learning mode again and we all know how long that took..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Al, I'm concerned with the defensive line as well. However, despite that concern I'm not yet to the point of worry that I expect it alone will make us a lower level group. If we are capable of scoring points this year and getting in the lead that will help our pass rush by narrowing the options of the oppositions. Still, we lack a playmaking presense up front and it is certainly a very big area of concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Art...agree.......but my observation has been that once you get to the playoffs and move along....defense tends to shutdowen offense...so you have to have a quality defense to compete... i see us as mid-tier on defense right now as presently built..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I just hope the hoopla of these signings doensn't become a burden of extra pressure on Ramsey to perform, thus causing him to falter and not meet our expectations. Ramsey strikes me as a player who's not only physically tough but mentally tough as well. I don't think he's looking at this situation with a sense of performance anxiety at all. More likely (not unlike a lot of us) he's probably just giggling like a schoolgirl at the oportunity to play with a better OL than he's ever had before and the possibility of an excellent corps of WRs to boot. Add the options in the backfield and he's probably just positively:drool:with anticipation and:jump:for joy that he doesn't have to take all those hits next season and that he'll actually have someone to look for downfield who'll actually catch the pass and not fumble it afterward. Additionally don't overlook the locker room presence of Thomas and Coles (if we get him). Both these guys seem like they not only are very good players, but team leaders as well. Leadership from players is something this team has been somewhat lacking in recent years. I look at the leadership angle as one of those intangibles of signing these two. The Cowpukes' days of knowing we'll fold before they even play us are OVER for the forseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 The offense if the O line is healthy can only get better, Come on guys no more 2nd or 3rd and short changed by flase starts or holding on running plays by Loverne makes all of the difference in the world. I'm concerned about the D line but Gardener was in a contract year which I hate as far as negotiating a contract, remember Flubbifiled? Smoot if the trade rumors are true should just take his game to the next level which is probable since he is in his third year and then decide if he wants to remain here or show the team the same love they showed him when its decision time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Art Al, I'm concerned with the defensive line as well. However, despite that concern I'm not yet to the point of worry that I expect it alone will make us a lower level group. If we are capable of scoring points this year and getting in the lead that will help our pass rush by narrowing the options of the oppositions. Still, we lack a playmaking presense up front and it is certainly a very big area of concern. Glad to see you are finaly catching on to what I have been saying for months. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Mike, There's never been a contrary point on my part. The team addressed its needs at receiver pretty much precisely as I thought -- at least in terms of going at it through free agency and not the draft. I, like most, was taken back by the Coles move which seemed much less planned out, but, what was clear for months is the team had no intention of drafting a receiver unless one of the top two easily fell to them or they could make a team-friendly deal for one of the top two. That would explain the reports of Smoot and No. 13 for two vets, No. 1 and No. 2 from Detroit. Such an absolute assault on the Lions would have made that move worthwhile very likely. But, the team, like most, probably knew it takes receivers a while to develop, if they every do. I still prefer Boston to Coles, but, I'll live with Coles. It was evident the team wanted to fill the receiving need through the free agency and it has gone about doing so. It means we will almost certainly enter this season with one fairly major concern along the defensive line, and that, along with Ramsey's growth, will be the limiting factors in our success this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Well this is the time we have to make nice with BDW when it comes to renegotiating a cap friendly contract and if he comes in lighter as he promised I'm sure we can look past his comments for the sake of a playoff run. Blitzing Lavar from the Linebacker position in conjunction with Upshaw or L Jackson should be enough to create pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Art Mike, There's never been a contrary point on my part. The team addressed its needs at receiver pretty much precisely as I thought -- at least in terms of going at it through free agency and not the draft. I, like most, was taken back by the Coles move which seemed much less planned out, but, what was clear for months is the team had no intention of drafting a receiver unless one of the top two easily fell to them or they could make a team-friendly deal for one of the top two. That would explain the reports of Smoot and No. 13 for two vets, No. 1 and No. 2 from Detroit. Such an absolute assault on the Lions would have made that move worthwhile very likely. But, the team, like most, probably knew it takes receivers a while to develop, if they every do. I still prefer Boston to Coles, but, I'll live with Coles. It was evident the team wanted to fill the receiving need through the free agency and it has gone about doing so. It means we will almost certainly enter this season with one fairly major concern along the defensive line, and that, along with Ramsey's growth, will be the limiting factors in our success this season. Art You *were* right about the reciever coming out of FA but I dont think that was the plan from the begining. Notice that they made no play for Price or Boston (I knew Price was a red hering). I think they were planning on drafting one of the top two WRs if they could. I think they tried, even going so far as to dangle Smoot. Then I think they went to plan B. When they first looked in that big book, Cole *must* have poped out at them. They did their homework for this offseason and it payed off. I hope. What I was talking about was this... If we are capable of scoring points this year and getting in the lead that will help our pass rush by narrowing the options of the oppositions. It's a point I have made, oh, about a hundred times. :laugh: Every time I have, I've been blasted for it. As I was when I was one of the first to say Davis must go. As I was when I said Offense and WR were the first priority. As I was when I stressed the need for speed. And as I was when I said that Defense does not win games, offense AND defense wins games. Flip the order as you will, it is the sum of the whole that is important. These are all themes I have been repeating and you have been a critic of at least some of them. I was just shocked to see your recognition of my "sum of the whole" concept so clearly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Mike, You were never blasted for that point by me. I don't bet you were ever blasted for that point period. Obviously, a better scoring offense relieves some of the doubt on a defense by narrowing the options. The same thing can be said for field position. A better punter and kicker allows us to win the field position battle which causes teams to use less of their playbook in drives, which benefits the defense. Every area of relative strength helps every other area, weak or not. No one would likely have thought or said otherwise. We've seen situations in Washington where we were an awful pass defense while having a dominating offense, but it was that dominance that actually contributed to the pass defense weakness. See 1983 as a reference point. Every are of a team impacts every other area. The point still remains that the best teams in the NFC this season were the Eagles and the Bucs who are built well up front on the defense and have relatively limited/slow/average receivers. It is clearly more important to have a difference maker up front on the defensive line than it is to have one at the receiver position, especially in today's NFL. The Redskins were able to target and solve nearly every team weakness this offseason before we've gotten to the draft. Two areas remain a worry -- punter and defensive line. Those areas will need to be addressed for this team to be all it can and should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I think you HAVE to look at these moves in terms of the next 2 seaons, not just 2003. Snyder said himself, that we have to look at this roster as the 2004 roster as well. I've think the Skins have made enough moves to improve, but the real judgement on the results shouldn't come until after that 2004 season. One of the keys to success is stability and confidence in your teammates and your system. There will still be a learning curve, even for these veterans, because the teammates and the system will be new. But I have confidence because many, if not most of the signings have been solid veterans with a proven work ethic. Guys like Randy Thomas, Dave Fiore, and Brandon Noble typify this ethic. Lavernious Coles has worked hard to overcome his troubles in college and has emerged as a playmaker. Even someone like Matt Bowen, who is somewhat of a projection because he hasn't been a fulltime starter, seems to merit consideration because of the work ethic he has demonstrated, as well. I believe the committment the team has made to these types of players bodes well. There are questions as to how soon these players will gel with their new teammates, but their work ethics seem to indicate that they will do whatever it takes to make it happen. I'm excited to see what 2003 will yield, but I'm really excited to see what happens in 2004 after these guys have had a whole season to grow together, kind of like in 1990, when the Skins made a bunch of solid Plan B acquisitions. Their play gave us some hints of what they were capable of, but they really came together in '91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 It is clearly more important to have a difference maker up front on the defensive line than it is to have one at the receiver position, especially in today's NFL. Not if your team is coached by Spurrier and you live and die by your passing game. We will bolster the D line, I have no doubt. Now that we seem to have a playmaking offense that can gell over the next two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Spot on Art.......I thought we all learned this year that the NFL isn't the SEC.........even SOS has acknowledged that..... certain fundamentals still apply...if you know the offense is built for the passsing game, that a high percentage of the playcalls will be passes....you simply blitz the *ell out of it......a well constructed scheme compresses everything and deprives the offense of its ability to execute its normal strategy...this is what Philly does...this is what the Bucs do............and if you have a limitted running game.......and an O-line that is good but not "world class"...welllllll......... in my book........an entertaining loss is still a loss......... and the balance isn't there....the defense has been substantially dismantled and there have been significant injuries....this is a deeper problem than many are acknowledging........on top of this you have a new coordinator.......we're working our way into a defensive melt-down this year.........yep an all-world guy like Noble is certainly going to changes things.......doesn't anyone get it? we have limitted talent on the defensive line right now and a suspect pass defense......who knows how trotter will recover..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by fansince62 Spot on Art.......I thought we all learned this year that the NFL isn't the SEC.........even SOS has acknowledged that..... certain fundamentals still apply...if you know the offense is built for the passsing game, that a high percentage of the playcalls will be passes....you simply blitz the *ell out of it......a well constructed scheme compresses everything and deprives the offense of its ability to execute its normal strategy...this is what Philly does...this is what the Bucs do............and if you have a limitted running game.......and an O-line that is good but not "world class"...welllllll......... in my book........an entertaining loss is still a loss......... and the balance isn't there....the defense has been substantially dismantled and there have been significant injuries....this is a deeper problem than many are acknowledging........on top of this you have a new coordinator.......we're working our way into a defensive melt-down this year.........yep an all-world guy like Noble is certainly going to changes things.......doesn't anyone get it? we have limitted talent on the defensive line right now and a suspect pass defense......who knows how trotter will recover..... Cool. That's your prediction. Here's mine. :fortune: I say we are going to put up a lot of points. I say our O line *will* be great and Ramsey is going to shine. I say we will handle the blitz by using quick passes to speedy WRs and keeping defenses honest with quick draws to Candidate. I say the Rams are about to be de-throned as the greatest show on turf. I say the defense will be good enough to win. We may drop off some but as long as we don't give away the big plays we can hang with anyone. Bottom line is we *will* win more games. And THAT is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Brasi Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by fansince62 and the balance isn't there....the defense has been substantially dismantled and there have been significant injuries....this is a deeper problem than many are acknowledging........on top of this you have a new coordinator.......we're working our way into a defensive melt-down this year.........yep an all-world guy like Noble is certainly going to changes things.......doesn't anyone get it? we have limitted talent on the defensive line right now and a suspect pass defense......who knows how trotter will recover..... Please explain the changes on the D-line and how they will cause a "meltdown". With the exception of Gardener for Noble, can you honestly say that every other position hasn't been upgraded or has the same player returning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Yeah, I think "melt-down" is a bit pessimistic and alarmist. Limited talent isn't an accurate depiction of our present defensive line. Limited is what the Skins had in '97, with the likes of Mark Boutte and company. What we have now is solid. Nothing more. Nothing less. This will be a group that's tough against the run, but could use some more speed in the pass rush. Gardener is a more dynamic player than Nobles, but Noble isn't a slouch. We've gone from nearly Pro Bowl play to solid at that position. But you could also say we gained in reliability. Noble is rock solid, but Gardener will always be a question because of his back. Overall, though, if Dan Wilkinson gets his weight down like he says he's doing, Noble and Big Daddy can give you similar play to what Baltimore got from Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams. (Noble isn't as big as the Goose, but he peforms the same tasks with better endurance.) That's good enough to win a Super Bowl. Depth at DT does need to be addressed, admittedly. With Matt Bowen on board, I don't see how you can't say the Safety position hasn't been improved, both in quality and depth. Ifeanyi Ohalete is a definate upgrade from Sam Shade in pass defense. David Terrell gets to play nickle defenses and backup the safety spot, a role which he is more suited to and plays to his strengths. While Darrell Green is a loss sentimentally, the fact is that Rashad Bauman was getting more playing time and probably playing better than Fred Smoot towards the end of last season. He's going to get better. Pass rush? Well, it won't be worse than last year. An in-shape Dan Wilkenson is actually a better pass rusher than Daryl Gardener. And Bruce Smith will be fresher and more explosive as a situational rusher. LaVar Arrington will still be a major factor. Moving him around and blitzing him will keep offenses more off balance. Yeah, Gardener might have been the best player on the defense last season (in reality, Champ Bailey was, in my opinion). But losing him, and him only, doesn't put the defense in a "melt-down" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Assuming 100 percent health, we'll likely be fine. Is that what you assume? Upshaw has been injured with regularity. Wynn has what appears to be a chronic problem. Wilky is durable, but, he's not been relied upon on passing downs for three years. Noble, we know, offers nothing in terms of pressure. Obviously the team has to be thinking Smith and Wilky are returning. If that doesn't happen we'll be beyond a melt down here. If we suffer injury we're in trouble. Our relative strength is we have some depth now with Smith coming off the bench. We almost certainly have to focus on the defensive line in this draft with what we have left. If everyone is healthy it seems likely to me we probably won't be tremendously below where we were last year. It's just that last year we were hardly a team that generated consistent pressure as it was. You get QBs to throw off rhythm with Smoot and Bailey back there and we'll win a ton of games . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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