D.J. Hackett > Roy Williams, Chad Johnson, etc.

[method man]

so you would rather take a risk on a 2nd round WR who takes mostly likely 3 years to develop and might not even after that just because you arent paying him that much, instead of paying a player who is a proven WR that can change the game in favor of our team because you dont want to pay him?? Are you alright with being average for the next 3-4 years??

I don't believe in drafting receivers. That is why I am advocating taking a WR in FA. I would use that second round pick on a DL, OL, or CB.

[method man]

But we aren't functioning in a vacuum. If we didn't have to deal with a salary cap, Williams would be a phenomenal choice. Unfortunately, if we add him, we won't just have a regular team with one high-priced WR...we'll also have a high-priced RB, and two high-priced OTs, and a high-priced OG, and another couple of high-priced WRs, and a high-priced TE, and a high-priced DE, and a high-priced MLB, and a high-priced SS, and a trio of high-priced CBs. Which is not to mention the money we'll have to be giving to our young franchise QB soon. Under the constraints of the cap, you simply can't afford to throw big salaries at every position.

Given our current, relatively tenuous cap situation, we don't have the flexibility to go handing a number of big contracts; we might be able to find enough "cash over the cap" to finagle one, but I just can't see how we'd manage more than that. In other words, adding R. Williams very likely means, to take a name from your list, not adding Terrell Suggs.

And I just don't think Roy would make THAT big a difference. Teams with these young, "elite" WRs are not having success in general around the league. Look at the Lions...they have Roy AND CJ. Look at the Cardinals...they have Fitz AND Q. Look at the Bengals...they have 85 AND Housh. And yet they can't win ballgames. Why? Because their teams get pounded in the trenches. For every highlight reel catch and mindboggling TD these WRs provide, they're giving up more points because they can't stuff the run and rush the passer, and they're bogging down on offense because they can't carve out holes in the run game and they can't keep their QBs upright.

Sure, the Pats benefited from adding Moss, but Roy Williams is not Randy Moss. Randy Moss is one of the best WRs in the history of the game, and could easily have been the MVP of the league this season...Roy Williams is just very good. For what it's worth, here is an article that was written by a Sports Illustrated writer just recently on the absence of "top" WRs from the playoffs.

What do the two Super Bowl teams have in common? Well, first, they have effective, cohesive offensive lines. But even more importantly, they have terrific defensive lines. The Giants have probably the best 4-3 line in the league, and the Pats have probably the best 3-4 line. [Aside: 2nd best 4-3 line? Probably Green Bay. 2nd best 3-4 line? Probably San Diego.] They were the top 2 teams in the league in sacks. In fact, the top 5 teams in the league in sacks were NYG, NE, DAL, SEA, and SD. All of whom were still playing in the divisional round. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Which I really think leads me to the key point here, again, that we really need to be upgrading along the lines, and trading high picks and huge contracts for more WRs will prevent us from being able to do that. We could add an elite DL in FA AND a very good young OL/DL prospect in the 2nd round AND Hackett instead of Roy Williams. And I think we'd be much better off that way.

Yup. If this DL can rush the passer, then you will see more plays like spikes in the number of picks Springs and Smoot get. The only two big signings I support are WR D.J. Hackett and DT Tommy Kelly. Both are similar...guys who will absolutely explode in the right situation

[tml6157]

But we aren't functioning in a vacuum. If we didn't have to deal with a salary cap, Williams would be a phenomenal choice. Unfortunately, if we add him, we won't just have a regular team with one high-priced WR...we'll also have a high-priced RB, and two high-priced OTs, and a high-priced OG, and another couple of high-priced WRs, and a high-priced TE, and a high-priced DE, and a high-priced MLB, and a high-priced SS, and a trio of high-priced CBs. Which is not to mention the money we'll have to be giving to our young franchise QB soon. Under the constraints of the cap, you simply can't afford to throw big salaries at every position.

Given our current, relatively tenuous cap situation, we don't have the flexibility to go handing a number of big contracts; we might be able to find enough "cash over the cap" to finagle one, but I just can't see how we'd manage more than that. In other words, adding R. Williams very likely means, to take a name from your list, not adding Terrell Suggs.

And I just don't think Roy would make THAT big a difference. Teams with these young, "elite" WRs are not having success in general around the league. Look at the Lions...they have Roy AND CJ. Look at the Cardinals...they have Fitz AND Q. Look at the Bengals...they have 85 AND Housh. And yet they can't win ballgames. Why? Because their teams get pounded in the trenches. For every highlight reel catch and mindboggling TD these WRs provide, they're giving up more points because they can't stuff the run and rush the passer, and they're bogging down on offense because they can't carve out holes in the run game and they can't keep their QBs upright.

Sure, the Pats benefited from adding Moss, but Roy Williams is not Randy Moss. Randy Moss is one of the best WRs in the history of the game, and could easily have been the MVP of the league this season...Roy Williams is just very good. For what it's worth, here is an article that was written by a Sports Illustrated writer just recently on the absence of "top" WRs from the playoffs.

What do the two Super Bowl teams have in common? Well, first, they have effective, cohesive offensive lines. But even more importantly, they have terrific defensive lines. The Giants have probably the best 4-3 line in the league, and the Pats have probably the best 3-4 line. [Aside: 2nd best 4-3 line? Probably Green Bay. 2nd best 3-4 line? Probably San Diego.] They were the top 2 teams in the league in sacks. In fact, the top 5 teams in the league in sacks were NYG, NE, DAL, SEA, and SD. All of whom were still playing in the divisional round. Coincidence? I don't believe so.

Which I really think leads me to the key point here, again, that we really need to be upgrading along the lines, and trading high picks and huge contracts for more WRs will prevent us from being able to do that. We could add an elite DL in FA AND a very good young OL/DL prospect in the 2nd round AND Hackett instead of Roy Williams. And I think we'd be much better off that way.

You are right in saying that Cincy, Detroit and Arizona do have great duos of WR and aren't successful, but you just happen to name the teams that sucks. What about NE, SD, GB, New York. All have a great set of WR. The teams you have mentioned have crappy defenses. Losing our WLB, starting CB and perhaps the greatest safety ever, we still made the playoffs, not triumphantly but we still did. Our D played great at the end of the season. Thats not even including losing our entire ROL, and QB. We aren't light years away from being a Dallas or New York or even GB. Taking players off the books like Brunell, Lloyd, Springs and Jansen will free up cap space. I'd be very satisfied to go into next season with Heyer starting and Wade backup. Our team was killed with injuries and tragedy. I know its said you can not blame loses on injuries but imagine what this team could have done if we weren't devistated with injuries.

With my list, im not saying i want ALL those players. if we could it would be amazing but its not possible. so if we only could get one of those FA's and draft some of those players id be satisfied.

I really don't get the thing with DJ Hackett. He played what, like four games last season or something. why do you want someone who is injury prone. look at springs, he was hurt every season so far here. I do like his height but it wont do any good when he is on the sideline most of the season. Im sorry but Santana Moss is not a #1 WR. He had a breakout year in 05 because no one knew he was that good but thats about it. We cant have the needed success to take it to the next level in the playoffs with small WRs. I would love to see us make a move to get 2 tall WR this offseason. Id love Ernest Wilford on this team.

#1 WR - Roy Williams/Chad Johnson

#2 WR - Santana Moss

#3 WR - Antwaan Randle El

#4 WR - Ernest Wilford

#5 WR - Reche Caldwell

#6 WR - Anthony Mix

that would give us 3 small fast WR and 3 tall big bodied WR. Switch them in and out depending on the situations. Go big in the red zone. Big and small to stretch the field.

For the rest of FA.....id like to see Nnamdi Asomugha with us next season. If Dan could work his cap magic and swing both a WR and Asomugha we would be set. Id rather Nnamdi over Roy Williams.

In the draft we need a solid DE in round 1, and the rest of the draft can be DL, LB, CB, OL. Whatever the new coach sees fit in which round.

[method man]

You are right in saying that Cincy, Detroit and Arizona do have great duos of WR and aren't successful, but you just happen to name the teams that sucks. What about NE, SD, GB, New York. All have a great set of WR. The teams you have mentioned have crappy defenses. Losing our WLB, starting CB and perhaps the greatest safety ever, we still made the playoffs, not triumphantly but we still did. Our D played great at the end of the season. Thats not even including losing our entire ROL, and QB. We aren't light years away from being a Dallas or New York or even GB. Taking players off the books like Brunell, Lloyd, Springs and Jansen will free up cap space. I'd be very satisfied to go into next season with Heyer starting and Wade backup. Our team was killed with injuries and tragedy. I know its said you can not blame loses on injuries but imagine what this team could have done if we weren't devistated with injuries.

With my list, im not saying i want ALL those players. if we could it would be amazing but its not possible. so if we only could get one of those FA's and draft some of those players id be satisfied.

I really don't get the thing with DJ Hackett. He played what, like four games last season or something. why do you want someone who is injury prone. look at springs, he was hurt every season so far here. I do like his height but it wont do any good when he is on the sideline most of the season. Im sorry but Santana Moss is not a #1 WR. He had a breakout year in 05 because no one knew he was that good but thats about it. We cant have the needed success to take it to the next level in the playoffs with small WRs. I would love to see us make a move to get 2 tall WR this offseason. Id love Ernest Wilford on this team.

#1 WR - Roy Williams/Chad Johnson

#2 WR - Santana Moss

#3 WR - Antwaan Randle El

#4 WR - Ernest Wilford

#5 WR - Reche Caldwell

#6 WR - Anthony Mix

that would give us 3 small fast WR and 3 tall big bodied WR. Switch them in and out depending on the situations. Go big in the red zone. Big and small to stretch the field.

For the rest of FA.....id like to see Nnamdi Asomugha with us next season. If Dan could work his cap magic and swing both a WR and Asomugha we would be set. Id rather Nnamdi over Roy Williams.

In the draft we need a solid DE in round 1, and the rest of the draft can be DL, LB, CB, OL. Whatever the new coach sees fit in which round.

It's because Hackett had one nagging injury this season. Just because he was hurt this season does not mean he is injury prone.

Nnamdi would take at least one first round pick to get. There will be guys in this draft like Terrell Thomas who you can get in the second round who will be great CBs.

[flock53]

What about Jerry Porter? Get the same turn around the Pats got with Moss as far as attitude is concerned, not putting in same catagory as talent. But he is GOOD, big and fast. Obviously needs a change of scenery, and probably lower 1st tier or 2nd tier as far as $$$$ are concerned. Not to mention Bryant Johnson is also a FRA, not a burner but is supposed to run excellent routes.

[tml6157]

It's because Hackett had one nagging injury this season. Just because he was hurt this season does not mean he is injury prone.

Nnamdi would take at least one first round pick to get. There will be guys in this draft like Terrell Thomas who you can get in the second round who will be great CBs.

Asomugha is a FA, if Oakland franchises him then we would have to give up a first but as of right now we wont. I was watching Terrell Thomas today at the senior bowl practice and he seems to be pretty solid. But i do think he will be around in the third round. Id love to add 2 CBs as well. Springs is old, Torrence is an unknown, Smoot has his moments, Macklin was active for like 2 games, Rogers might not be back at all next season. Id like to add Asomugha and either Terrell Thomas or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie in the third round from Tennessee State. Kid is big, fast and physical. Going into next season like this would be very solid:

#1 CB - Nnamdi Asomugha

#2 CB - Shawn Springs

#3 CB - Terrell Thomas/Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie

#4 CB - Fred Smoot

#5 CB - Leigh Torrence

As for Hackett, i still dont feel that he is that good. The guy whooped up on Springs because he was caught looking in the backfield too many times not because he dominiated springs. besides its springs, he is a decent corner but old. not like he did this to champ or nnamdi or mcalister.

[dizzinator53]

Method Man.... I have never lost a sig bet... because I never bet on something that isn't a lock. This, my friend, is a stone cold lock. DJ Hackett sucks. His stats are on par with Brandon Lloyd since he came to Washington. 32 Catches this year?!!?? Are you out of your mind? With numbers like that, who needs the CFL? The day that DJ Hackett gets a 15 million dollar signing bonus is the day that Stephen Hawking throws out the first pitch of the World Series. As a matter of fact, the only good thing about DJ Hackett is that he went to San Dimas HS.... and we all know that San Dimas HS football rules! Come on man, LT rushed for more yards this year than DJ Hackett has received in his whole career. Clinton Portis scored more TD's this year than Hackett has scored in his whole career.

If you don't beleive me, take a peek right here:

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.hackett/careerstats?id=HAC504279

The numbers don't lie, Meth, the numbers don't lie.

This Bet is on like Donkey Kong

[method man]

Method Man.... I have never lost a sig bet... because I never bet on something that isn't a lock. This, my friend, is a stone cold lock. DJ Hackett sucks. His stats are on par with Brandon Lloyd since he came to Washington. 32 Catches this year?!!?? Are you out of your mind? With numbers like that, who needs the CFL? The day that DJ Hackett gets a 15 million dollar signing bonus is the day that Stephen Hawking throws out the first pitch of the World Series. As a matter of fact, the only good thing about DJ Hackett is that he went to San Dimas HS.... and we all know that San Dimas HS football rules! Come on man, LT rushed for more yards this year than DJ Hackett has received in his whole career. Clinton Portis scored more TD's this year than Hackett has scored in his whole career.

If you don't beleive me, take a peek right here:

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.hackett/careerstats?id=HAC504279

The numbers don't lie, Meth, the numbers don't lie.

This Bet is on like Donkey Kong

LOL. You do know that as a 5th round pick, he started to finally get his shot after midseason last year, right? It's called player development. 5th round picks don't get to start at WR right off the bat. 32 catches. Yes. Over 6 games. Project it out 16 games and it is 85 catches, sharing the ball with three other good receivers. As e16bball pointed out, Hackett does not drop balls. There is a reason they let a 1000-yard receiver like Darrell Jackson go. Because there was a better version right behind him.

[jbooma]

I had Hackett in fantasy football

OVERRATED

he is never on the field

Roy Williams and Chad Johnson are light years better then Hackett. Heck when Branch was healthy he was the bigger target then Hackett.

[Mooka]

Method Man.... I have never lost a sig bet... because I never bet on something that isn't a lock. This, my friend, is a stone cold lock. DJ Hackett sucks. His stats are on par with Brandon Lloyd since he came to Washington. 32 Catches this year?!!?? Are you out of your mind? With numbers like that, who needs the CFL? The day that DJ Hackett gets a 15 million dollar signing bonus is the day that Stephen Hawking throws out the first pitch of the World Series. As a matter of fact, the only good thing about DJ Hackett is that he went to San Dimas HS.... and we all know that San Dimas HS football rules! Come on man, LT rushed for more yards this year than DJ Hackett has received in his whole career. Clinton Portis scored more TD's this year than Hackett has scored in his whole career.

If you don't beleive me, take a peek right here:

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.hackett/careerstats?id=HAC504279

The numbers don't lie, Meth, the numbers don't lie.

This Bet is on like Donkey Kong

Look at his numbers as a starter:

15 games

70 catches for 938 yds and 9 TDs

Now he isn't better then Chad Johnson and a 15million SB is insane, but he certainly doesn't suck. Have you watched him play before? He's a beast. The whole point is that he's a third receiver and has some injury concerns so a team may be able to sign him for cheap.

[dizzinator53]

LOL. You do know that as a 5th round pick, he started to finally get his shot after midseason last year, right? It's called player development. 5th round picks don't get to start at WR right off the bat. 32 catches. Yes. Over 6 games. Project it out 16 games and it is 85 catches, sharing the ball with three other good receivers. As e16bball pointed out, Hackett does not drop balls. There is a reason they let a 1000-yard receiver like Darrell Jackson go. Because there was a better version right behind him.

Ok, then by your logic, Seattle won't let him go... if he's the next coming of Darell Jackson to them, right? How does one develop a pass receiver? He either gets it or he doesn't. It seems to me that route running is the most important factor in the NFL. For example, Colston (7th), Gates (undrafted), Donald Driver (7th), TJ Housmanzadeh (7th). All of these players were superstars by their 2nd or third season. All of them are Seventh rounders. DJ Hackett in the 5th round still doesn't impress me or any personnel in the NFL, which is why he will not get 15 million dollars to sign on anywhere.

[method man]

I had Hackett in fantasy football

OVERRATED

he is never on the field

Roy Williams and Chad Johnson are light years better then Hackett. Heck when Branch was healthy he was the bigger target then Hackett.

this is why you always get smacked around by the mods. he wasn't on the field much THIS SEASON. he played 2 less games than Carlos. Should we call Carlos injury prone?

Deion Branch a bigger target than Hackett? Then why did Branch have only 17 more catches than Hackett despite being in 5 more games?

[dizzinator53]

Look at his numbers as a starter:

15 games

70 catches for 938 yds and 9 TDs

Now he isn't better then Chad Johnson and a 15million SB is insane, but he certainly doesn't suck. Have you watched him play before? He's a beast. The whole point is that he's a third receiver and has some injury concerns so a team may be able to sign him for cheap.

So, what you are saying is that he is on pace to not break 1,000 yds (at 62 yds per game) if he plays a whole season even when he has a nickel back or safety covering him. That is suckville. If he is a 3rd wide receiver that means there are two other guy better than him on the field demanding more attention, right? yes. So, he can't break 1,000 yds with slower guys covering him and a stellar quarterback throwing to him. He pushes off sooooooooo much that it's almost comical, on top of that, he has been hurt so much he hasn't even played a full season. What a puss.

[dizzinator53]

this is why you always get smacked around by the mods. he wasn't on the field much THIS SEASON. he played 2 less games than Carlos. Should we call Carlos injury prone?

Deion Branch a bigger target than Hackett? Then why did Branch have only 17 more catches than Hackett despite being in 5 more games?

Because he is 17 catches better and 5 games more healthy. If it isn't a health issue, than he sucks too bad to be played by his coach, right? Did I mention Deion Branch has a Superbowl MVP and a nice Cadillac to prove it? Yes Carlos Rogers is injury prone... yes he is eating up cap space, and... yes..... he is probably the only starting corner in the league that can't cover DJ Hackett.

[Mooka]

So, what you are saying is that he is on pace to not break 1,000 yds (at 62 yds per game) if he plays a whole season even when he has a nickel back or safety covering him. That is suckville. If he is a 3rd wide receiver that means there are two other guy better than him on the field demanding more attention, right? yes. So, he can't break 1,000 yds with slower guys covering him and a stellar quarterback throwing to him. He pushes off sooooooooo much that it's almost comical, on top of that, he has been hurt so much he hasn't even played a full season. What a puss.

Those were stats as a starter, so he doesn't have a nickel back or safety covering him. And that suckville is better production then any receiver on our team in the past 2 years.

[jbooma]

this is why you always get smacked around by the mods. he wasn't on the field much THIS SEASON. he played 2 less games than Carlos. Should we call Carlos injury prone?

Deion Branch a bigger target than Hackett? Then why did Branch have only 17 more catches than Hackett despite being in 5 more games?

Thats my point he is injury prone. Chad johnson is always on the field. You are getting smacked around because he is overated and not in the same league as Johnson or Williams.

Someone made a comment about him not being drafted high he doesn't get a chance to show on the field, ummmm then how do you explain Colston when he was drafted so late yet set the record for most receptions in the first two years of ANY WR

You are right Branch did play more, but injured something Hackett couldn't do.

The sad thing is Lloyd has had better seasons then Hackett :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[dizzinator53]

Those were stats as a starter, so he doesn't have a nickel back or safety covering him. And that suckville is better production then any receiver on our team in the past 2 years.

Please enlighten us all as to how DJ Hackett is better than either Moss or Randle-El...................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ................... Both receivers have soundly thumped him the past two years in numbers. Do you want to take career averages? Oh wait, they pound him again! Where are you going with this? Since when does a starter play 3rd WR? Since when does a starting CB cover a 3rd WR without playing zone D? DJ Hackett was most certainly not a starter.

[Mooka]

Please enlighten us all as to how DJ Hackett is better than either Moss or Randle-El...................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ................... Both receivers have soundly thumped him the past two years in numbers. Do you want to take career averages? Oh wait, they pound him again! Where are you going with this? Since when does a starter play 3rd WR? Since when does a starting CB cover a 3rd WR without playing zone D? DJ Hackett was most certainly not a starter.

I posted his stats as a starter, which are pretty darn good. Which is evidence that a team may be able to sign him and get very good value for the dollar.

[jbooma]

I posted his stats as a starter, which are pretty darn good. Which is evidence that a team may be able to sign him and get very good value for the dollar.

If he is so good why would Seattle let him leave plus with the injury to Branch I think they have to keep him.

[Mooka]

If he is so good why would Seattle let him leave plus with the injury to Branch I think they have to keep him.

They tendered him, so they may match any offer he gets. I think it would take a 3rd rounder to land him if Seattle matches.

[rstwrt24]

Hackett is legit! He'll be a stud, no doubt.

[cphil006]

who does Hackett play for again?

Limas Sweed will be available.

[dizzinator53]

who does Hackett play for again?

Limas Sweed will be available.

Exactly.

[dachozenone]

They tendered him, so they may match any offer he gets. I think it would take a 3rd rounder to land him if Seattle matches.

Hackett was a RFA last year. He is an UFA this year. Seattle will get no compensation from another team if Hackett leaves .

[method man]

They tendered him, so they may match any offer he gets. I think it would take a 3rd rounder to land him if Seattle matches.

Nah. He is a UFA. Their problem is that they have other major FAs like Trufant this year.