Neophyte Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 No Need for Big Time Recievers I found this article very interesting considering all the talk here about trading for Johnson or Fitzgerald or some other "big time" receiver. While I guess I can get on board the idea of a big possession receiver or big target for shooting at the End Zone from inside the 10 yard line, after reading this, I am fine with the guys we have here now. It just does not appear as important to me as perhaps it does to a lot of other guys on this board. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think Anthony Mix is what we need, a big, red zone target that can just catch a fade or a slant. We don't need a TO or Randy Moss (although it would be nice). Look at the final 4 teams in the playoffs. 3 of those teams have a big-possesion type of receiver on their team (Plax, Moss, Vincent Jackson). We have plenty of speed at WR all we need is some size for certain downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy2Der Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 None of our WR scored a touchdown until week 10 we def need something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 None of our WR scored a touchdown until week 10 we def need something. While I will grant you this, are we so sure this is a condemnation of the WRs we have or could it be as much a QB or O-line issue? Or a play calling issue? Maybe a combination of all the above? I think this last idea the most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbnva Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 all I can say is if Burress wins a superbowl that is just going to suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 At one point late in the season, around week 14 or 15, each of the teams who had a top 10 WR in TD passes, except for the bengals with T J Houshmandzadeh, was in the drivers seat for a playoff birth..... If this team would have been able to score 7 more points per game it would have been interesting to see how good we would have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 This article is a real eye-opener for me. You can't deny this kinds of numbers. TO is 1-6 in the playoffs. Chad Johnson has never won a playoff game. Etc, etc. The evidence leads me to believe that championship teams go through a season by running the football and, in the passing game, spread the ball around to multiple threats. What championship teams don't do is rely on one stud wideout during the regular season, who puts up big numbers. But then the playoffs roll around, it's cold out, they're up against better defenses who are able to take away their primary option, and they lose. I'm not sure this necessarily means we shouldn't try to get a Roy Williams or a Larry Fitzgerald. I think it means that if we do, we should allow them to fill their best role in the offense, helping move the chains and score touchdowns, but not relying on them to blow up the stat sheet every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Need is a strong word, but don't tell me that we wouldn't be better off with a big time receiving threat. Hell Dallas wouldn't have done half the things they did this year without TO. In fact I remember vividly how he scored 4 TD's against us.(For the record if 21 were there he wouldn't have allowed that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Let's develop what we have, draft if need more, and spend money and resources needed elsewhere. WR is not a position of need compared to other areas of the team. I would rather get a young stud CB any day over an expensive WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTerps26 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 This article is a real eye-opener for me. You can't deny this kinds of numbers.TO is 1-6 in the playoffs. Chad Johnson has never won a playoff game. Etc, etc. The evidence leads me to believe that championship teams go through a season by running the football and, in the passing game, spread the ball around to multiple threats. and jerry rice has won 3 superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoth Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Colts: Wayne, Harrison, Clark Pats: Deion Branch. . .Moss, Walker, Stallworth 49ers: Rice Cowboys: Irvin Steelers: Lynn Swann Redskins: Monk, Saunders Our Moss is not as well rounded or consistent as these players, neither healthwise, or performance wise. You ever see Rice, Irvin, or Wayne drop 5 passes in a game? Miss a large number games in multiple back to back seasons? Dynasty teams that win Superbowls and are good year in year out have at least 1 great receiver. A great receiver doesn't have to be a flashy FA signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laxpunk2006 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 There is no doubt that a Chad Johnson or Larry Fitz would help us win football games. The stats are somewhat skewed because losing teams generally throw the football more. If they're going to throw it, it will be to their #1 guy thus getting him more yards/catches/touchdowns. Winning teams (minus the Pats) generally grind it out late in the game to run off clock and get a W rather than a tick on the stat sheet. They might not be considered Big-Time recievers by this article but Donald Driver is better than any reciever on our roster. He is a low-key guy that quietly puts together great games. Plax is also easily better than anyone we have, his attitude just sucks. We don't need to mortgage our future giving up draft picks for Larry or Chad, but a solid Amani Toomer/Joe Jurevicious type reciever would perfect fit for our offense. Another Moss/Randel El/ Desean Jackson would be a square peg in a round hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy2Der Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 While I will grant you this, are we so sure this is a condemnation of the WRs we have or could it be as much a QB or O-line issue? Or a play calling issue? Maybe a combination of all the above? I think this last idea the most likely. James Thrash was the first one to catch the pass to. I think alot of it falls on our WRS because the weren't healthy. When they were they droped alot of passes. I'll give them credit they scored in the playoffs but moss also had that cut off route which led to the INT. Wrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Colts: Wayne, Harrison, ClarkPats: Deion Branch. . .Moss, Walker, Stallworth 49ers: Rice Cowboys: Irvin Steelers: Lynn Swann Redskins: Monk, Saunders Our Moss is not as well rounded or consistent as these players, neither healthwise, or performance wise. You ever see Rice, Irvin, or Wayne drop 5 passes in a game? Miss a large number games in multiple back to back seasons? Dynasty teams that win Superbowls and are good year in year out have at least 1 great receiver. A great receiver doesn't have to be a flashy FA signing. Everybody has a bad game. Irvin missed a lot of games due to injury. TO has had seasons, and games, where he was plagued with drops (SanFran vs. Green Bay playoffs ring a bell?). What you are ignoring is that Moss is a game-changer when healthy. Two of the Skins you list, Monk and Sanders, don't hold the franchise record for most receiving yards in a season, Santana Moss does. Who was the Bears stud WR last year? Mushin is good, but he is no longer on the level you are talking about. Who was the Seahawks stud WR in '05? They had a couple good ones, but nobody on the level you are talking about. Who did the Pats have in '04, '03, or '01? The article brings up valid points, that when looking at sheer numbers, more teams fail with the big-possesion receiver than succeed. If you guys want to pretend that these WRs are easy to come by, when the stats say otherwise, that's fine. But don't drag one of our current, record-holding, players through the mud to do so. It isn't necessary, and is on the same level of class exhibited daily by Eagles fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think with healthy Randel El and Moss, mccardel we have an avg+ WR core.. the problem for the skins for most of this season wasn't the WRs per se.. it was the QB that couldn't get the ball to the WR because of either crappy O line or inaccurate throws. (look at TCs performance after he got the start) While i do think that a big/ dominant WR would help overall, i really don't feel it's a must have for the Skins. Hell, we have Cooley who is one of the top TE in the league and if size was that much of an issue skins could line him up as a WR and put in a 2nd TE for pass protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightbird Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 and jerry rice has won 3 superbowls. 20 years ago. I think you missed my point. I'm not saying you don't need great receivers to win championships. I am saying that, in the league as it is today, the championship teams' wide receivers, great, good, or just mediocre, have not been among the league's leading receivers as far as stats go. And yeah, jerry rice lit it up big time, but John Taylor and Brent Jones weren't exactly sleep-walking out there. Montana/Young spread the ball around. I remember games where Darrell Green would have a magnificent game slowing down Rice, but we'd still lose because they were not overly reliant on getting big numbers out of Rice in order to score points. Case in point: I belive if Hines Ward had been in the Rams system all these years, he'd have BIG-time stats. The guy is great. But he's on a team that is built differently, and needs him to produce differently. Doesn't mean he's not as good as Torry Holt, Javon Walker, or Roy Williams. He's just used in a different way. And he's won more games. Again, not saying I wouldn't LOVE to have Roy Williams on this team. But if we did get him, I think we'd be better off with him grabbing 80 balls for 1,000 yards or so, leaving plenty of action for Tana and Cooley. As opposed to expecting him to have a monster year, only to get shut down in the playoffs and leaving us unprepared to win with other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CG Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 We don't necessarily need a 'big-time' guy, just a big guy with good hands who will convert third downs and make catches when we need it. We already have the ability to stretch the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsRMoney06 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Our receiver core needs an upgrade. The first touchdown from a WR on week 9? Not acceptable. I want a balanced offense that has more than one way to hurt the other team, on the ground, or through the air. We dont need someone who will put up 1500 yds receiving, we need a good fit for our current roster that will balance out the passing attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinzOwnU Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Sorry but in general you will do well big time receivers. Let's look at the top teams: Pats: Moss Green Bay: Driver Dallas: Terrell Owens NY Giants: Burress San Diego: Gates, Chambers Colts: Harrison, Wayne Even if the numbers for all of these recievers aren't impressive, they have an effect on the game every time they step on the field. It doesn't matter how much they actually touch the ball. The Bengals and the Cardinals are the exception rather than the rule. You have to have a sound football team for the big-time receiver to make a big-time difference, and those teams are severely lacking in certain departments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think Anthony Mix is what we need, a big, red zone target that can just catch a fade or a slant. We don't need a TO or Randy Moss (although it would be nice).Look at the final 4 teams in the playoffs. 3 of those teams have a big-possesion type of receiver on their team (Plax, Moss, Vincent Jackson). We have plenty of speed at WR all we need is some size for certain downs. You can't count on Mix turning into our Big WR. That would be like counting on Kevin Huntley to turn into our Pass Rush specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdart Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think Anthony Mix is what we need, a big, red zone target that can just catch a fade or a slant. We don't need a TO or Randy Moss (although it would be nice).Look at the final 4 teams in the playoffs. 3 of those teams have a big-possesion type of receiver on their team (Plax, Moss, Vincent Jackson). We have plenty of speed at WR all we need is some size for certain downs. I bet if you checked there are wrs with that size on 75% of the teams in the Nfl. So there you go. Guys can have all the size and speed in the world, but they need to be able to run routes, get open and catch. Size isn't as big as people make it out to be. Example of a few smaller guys that get it done by running routes and catching the ball.All well under the 6'2" 220lb frame: Tj Houshmanzadeh 6'1" 199; Chad Johnson 6'1" 192; Donald Driver 6' 190; Marvin Harrison 6' 185, Reggie Wayne 6' 199; Torry Holt 6' 190. Pretty good list even if you take away a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Again, not saying I wouldn't LOVE to have Roy Williams on this team. But if we did get him, I think we'd be better off with him grabbing 80 balls for 1,000 yards or so, leaving plenty of action for Tana and Cooley. As opposed to expecting him to have a monster year, only to get shut down in the playoffs and leaving us unprepared to win with other options. Exactly. All those years Manning and Harrison couldn't get to the Superbowl were because both had bad numbers, for them, in the playoffs. Harrison would get shut down, and thus the Colts would get shut down. It's the same with why Minnesota could never get to the big stage with Culpepper and Moss. They'd fade down the stretch cuz defenses would just key on Moss. That's how we beat the Vikes in '04 and kept them out of the playoffs, with Randy storming off the field before the game was over. The Pats are doing great with Moss, but Welker is the leader in receptions on that team because they are attempting to avoid over-reliance on Moss (though Brady does force it to him in games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayl1985 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 While I would like for us to have one big receiver it's really not a need. If moss had been more consistent who knows how many more td's we would have scored. I still don't get why we don't throw more jump balls to cooley. Is he not bigger than the majority of possession wideouts? I think 6'3 250 lbs could outmuscle quite a few db's or lb's. And why not throw moss and randle el quick slants from the 10 yardline and in since they aren't tall. I don't think we even took advantage of the personnel we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expensivegift Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 So the article is just looking at one year's worth of data. Not even a full year either, but just a handful of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 The reason you don't win championships with a "stud" WR is because once you get in the playoffs, defenses find ways to take that guy out of the game. You need to have balance to your offense or at least have some complimentry targets to go along with that guy. Randy Moss only had 1 catch last weekend, but the Pats had Welker and Stallworth to step up and make plays. It just hasn't been Burress with the Giants. Toomer and Smith are making plays. The Chargers are getting play out of Jackson, Chambers and Davis. Green Bay is getting play out of Driver, Jones and Jennings. The Skins need a big physical Keyshawn Johnson type WR to compliment the speed guys they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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