CNN/SI: No Need for Big Time Recievers

[Oldskool]

This article has a bad case of the stupid.

SB may not be won mainly by teams who have the aforementioned receiver type, but having a bigtime receiver is what gets you to the big game and allows you to put up points.

We are missing our Art Monk type of receiver and haven't had anyone that can perform that role in years.

[Stew]

Maybe we should give this Brunell kid another look? Who is he with now?

LoL, I wouldnt go that far. However, I wouldnt mind Bramlet coming back in for some training camp fodder/ QB competition...... Ok, maybe now I'VE gone too far... :laugh: :doh:

Seriously though, Brunell is gone, and I think if Saunders goes then Collins goes as well. If he stays, do you think he would want to learn another offense? I doubt it. We have Jason, and then after that, it looks kinda wide open from where i stand, maybe a little lack of depth.

[tex]

I'd rather have one than not.

[elkabong82]

Maybe we should give this Brunell kid another look? Who is he with now?

So he proves you wrong, and your only response is to trash yet another player?

Consistency is a good argument against Santana, not that he isn't a playmaker or can't go up and get the ball. He torches Dallas almost every time we play them, and he holds the single season receiving yards record for a reason (and that was with Brunell throwing to him).

[elkabong82]

LoL, I wouldnt go that far. However, I wouldnt mind Bramlet coming back in for some training camp fodder/ QB competition...... Ok, maybe now I'VE gone too far... :laugh: :doh:

Seriously though, Brunell is gone, and I think if Saunders goes then Collins goes as well. If he stays, do you think he would want to learn another offense? I doubt it. We have Jason, and then after that, it looks kinda wide open from where i stand, maybe a little lack of depth.

I think if Saunders stays, Collins will prob. re-sign for another year or two. As good as he did this season, I don't think the offers are going to be pouring in for him. If Saunders goes, then whomever comes in as the new O-coord. will get at least one back-up they have worked with before or whom is familiar with their system.

[Stew]

So he proves you wrong, and your only response is to trash yet another player?

Consistency is a good argument against Santana, not that he isn't a playmaker or can't go up and get the ball. He torches Dallas almost every time we play them, and he holds the single season receiving yards record for a reason (and that was with Brunell throwing to him).

True that. I like Santana, but he had an off year. Lots of dropped passes. I would hope he is willing to restructure his contract this offseason, to provide some relief. Im not saying he should take a paycut, though hasnt Samuels done that before? I just wish we had someone to compliment Moss better. A bigger, quicker WR would draw some of the attention away from Moss, ARE, and Cooley, and sometimes Sellers or Portis.

[Stew]

If Saunders goes, then whomever comes in as the new O-coord. will get at least one back-up they have worked with before or whom is familiar with their system.

Damn dude, good point again. You are on it tonight. I hadnt given that aspect much thought. Well, then who would be considered for OC?

[turbodiesel#44]

So he proves you wrong, and your only response is to trash yet another player?

Consistency is a good argument against Santana, not that he isn't a playmaker or can't go up and get the ball. He torches Dallas almost every time we play them, and he holds the single season receiving yards record for a reason (and that was with Brunell throwing to him).

Sorry, I wasn't proven wrong. I forgot one play 2 years ago. I claimed I didn't remember him coming down with a jump ball. Are you saying he's good in a crowd?

[Stew]

Sorry, I wasn't proven wrong. I forgot one play 2 years ago. I claimed I didn't remember him coming down with a jump ball. Are you saying he's good in a crowd?

That was a great play though, wasnt it?

[turbodiesel#44]

That was a great play though, wasnt it?

I wish I could remember it. At least I'd have the memory.

[elkabong82]

Damn dude, good point again. You are on it tonight. I hadnt given that aspect much thought. Well, then who would be considered for OC?

I have no idea on that one. I'm not even sure who is available. Right now, I'm of the belief GW will be head coach. I believe this because of all the defensive-minded coaches we have brought in. Either they are here so Snyder can gain better perspective on GW, and/or they are here so Snyder can find a D-coordinator who could be a good fit here, and potential candidates who would be willing to sacrifice a potential head coach spot for a D-coord. position. This could also be why Mora took his name out of consideration, as he is already the heir apparent in Seattle and this would be step down in that regard.

As far as O-coord., I believe that if GW is named head coach, he will get rid of Saunders. I believe this because Saunder's style of offense doesn't help GW's D out, other than aloowing the D to give up more points. I wouldn't be surprised to see GW bring in an O-coord. who has a similar style to Gibbs on offense, which is a grind-it-out, control-the-clock style O. This is the best O to compliment GW's D, or really any D. The less time they are on the field, the better. GW will probably go with someone who fits this style, yet exhibits the same agressive nature GW exhibits. So whichever coach is out there who loves to run the ball, is aggressive, and has worked with players similar to ours, is a good candidate. Anyone know anybody like that? Maybe Russ Grimm.

[Stew]

I wish I could remember it. At least I'd have the memory.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OHZn-aSc30k

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[turbodiesel#44]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OHZn-aSc30k

TY I remember that one. He did have 2 tight defenders on him, and that was a beautiful throw and YAC. But I was talking more where a ball is tossed into a crowd where the defender has a chance for an interception. AKA Brady/Moss. A perfect pass like MBs there cannot be intercepted. Unless the reciever bobbles.

[elkabong82]

Sorry, I wasn't proven wrong. I forgot one play 2 years ago. I claimed I didn't remember him coming down with a jump ball. Are you saying he's good in a crowd?

Define a crowd. If you're talking about 3 defenders, Randy Moss is one of the only receivers who can consistently do that. Those kinds of throws are ill-advised anyways. Oh, and the Jax play happened last season, about a year and 3 months ago. Santana made plenty of catches in traffic this year, but they weren't deep bombs, if that's what you're looking for. If it is, again, very few receivers can do that, and not many receivers are even given that opportunity because those kinds of passes are so risky.

You said Tana doesn't catch in traffic, yet you were given an example of when he did. Just because you claim to not remember it (and how can you not since it was a TD grab in OT to win) doesn't mean it doesn't show Tana is capable of doing what you say he can't. You don't think Moss made any catches in traffic when he put up 1400+ yards receiving. Sure that was 2 years ago, but it doesn't mean that has magically changed.

So, I'm saying Moss is a good receiver. If a team has to rely on a big WR to catch the ball in "a crowd" consistently, then said team has QB and O-line issues, and isn't going very far that season. Are you saying you didn't belittle another Skins player and dodge the example you were given?

[Oldskool]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5_vojSk41sc&feature=related

This is the type of player we need at WR; big, sharp route runner who can either out muscle DB's or just burn them with proper route running.

[elkabong82]

Here's some clips of Santana catching the ball in "crowds" this season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqar3ZWBob4 : @ 2:49 catches the ball between 2 defenders.

Or watch this highlite clip and tell me he can't catch in "crowds".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HeUKfTBgU&feature=related

Again though, turbodiesel44, if you are talking about hali mary-type scenarios where the ball is chucked up, and it's between the reciever and 3-5 defenders to catch it, then there are only 2-3 WRs, out of the many that are over 6'0" and 200 lbs, in the NFL that can do that on any kind of consistent basis.

[turbodiesel#44]

Define a crowd. If you're talking about 3 defenders, Randy Moss is one of the only receivers who can consistently do that. Those kinds of throws are ill-advised anyways. Oh, and the Jax play happened last season, about a year and 3 months ago. Santana made plenty of catches in traffic this year, but they weren't deep bombs, if that's what you're looking for. If it is, again, very few receivers can do that, and not many receivers are even given that opportunity because those kinds of passes are so risky.

You said Tana doesn't catch in traffic, yet you were given an example of when he did. Just because you claim to not remember it (and how can you not since it was a TD grab in OT to win) doesn't mean it doesn't show Tana is capable of doing what you say he can't. You don't think Moss made any catches in traffic when he put up 1400+ yards receiving. Sure that was 2 years ago, but it doesn't mean that has magically changed.

So, I'm saying Moss is a good receiver. If a team has to rely on a big WR to catch the ball in "a crowd" consistently, then said team has QB and O-line issues, and isn't going very far that season. Are you saying you didn't belittle another Skins player and dodge the example you were given?

I'm talking about our failure to find a reciever who can go up in a jump-ball situation and come down with the ball. On that particular play, Moss didn't even break his stride. I would rather have plays like that every time, but our inability to punch it in from the red zone illustrates a team deficiency there. Moss was hot that entire game IIRC, 2 years ago. I doubt anybody posts the dozens of drops he had this past season on youtube. Do you realize we went 8 or 10 games before a WR had a TD? I still can't remember Moss taking any jump type balls.

Check Mosses catch about 1/3 into this clip. And a second one, same game, 2/3 in.

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Video-Randy-Moss-Effect-Trying-to-Keep-Tom-Bradys-Season-Somewhat-in-Perspective-Blog-4728

[elkabong82]

I'm talking about our failure to find a reciever who can go up in a jump-ball situation and come down with the ball. On that particular play, Moss didn't even break his stride. I would rather have plays like that every time, but our inability to punch it in from the red zone illustrates a team deficiency there. Moss was hot that entire game IIRC, 2 years ago. I doubt anybody posts the dozens of drops he had this past season on youtube. Do you realize we went 8 or 10 games before a WR had a TD? I still can't remember Moss taking any jump type balls.

There are plenty of other ways to score in the redzone. Besides, you said Moss can't catch in crowds, yet the highlites show several catches where Moss and the defender are both vying for the ball. Until this season, with a new QB, when did Moss have problems dropping the ball? You don't think his injuries, or our lack of a right side O-line, might have affected his performance? Lots of teams score in the redzone without simply throwing the ball up in the air. Eli to Plax is one of the few examples I can even think of where that is common-place. If you can find a site that gives redzone scoring percentages for '07, then check it out and see who the top teams were and who the bottom teams were. Then, see who their WRs are. I can't find a site, so I can't break down the redzone argument completely, other than to say that the teams still in the playoffs have more than one capable WR. The Seahwaks are in the playoffs every year, and were in the Superbowl 2 season ago, who do they have to "throw it up to"? One could also argue our redzone problems were a result of chemistry and play-calling issues.

But why are you focusing on what you think Moss can't do? He brings a lot to the table, and is a scoring threat. There are other people who can help out in the redzone, such as Cooley, Yoder (yeah that's right, Yoder) Thrash, hopefully Mix will develop in to a guy you can simply just throw the ball up to. However, when you are on a team that has a run-first offense, the RB is going to get the ball near the endzone before a WR does. We were winning games even when WRs weren't scoring TDs. In actuality, there were many times the WR caught the ball, only to come up about a yard or 2 short of the endzone. Anyways, let's see what this O can do with a healthy O-line, or do we not want to admit that injuries effect team performance.

[turbodiesel#44]

There are plenty of other ways to score in the redzone. Besides, you said Moss can't catch in crowds,

What kind of defense is that? Seriously, you can do better. I said Moss can't take jump balls and I mean it.

yet the highlites show several catches where Moss and the defender are both vying for the ball. Until this season, with a new QB, when did Moss have problems dropping the ball? You don't think his injuries, or our lack of a right side O-line, might have affected his performance? Lots of teams score in the redzone without simply throwing the ball up in the air. Eli to Plax is one of the few examples I can even think of where that is common-place. If you can find a site that gives redzone scoring percentages for '07, then check it out and see who the top teams were and who the bottom teams were. Then, see who their WRs are. I can't find a site, so I can't break down the redzone argument completely, other than to say that the teams still in the playoffs have more than one capable WR. ,

Well, Santana personally lost us the Green Bay game. And a heavy contributor to other losses too. Here's an interesting stat that can be found all over the web.

2005-9TDs

2006-6TDs

2007-3TDs

If you can visualize the curve, it's looking pretty bleak for next year. I guess you will blame JC for those drops. Don't forget Moss is our #1. When was his first TD? The 12th game? I'm guessing, help me out.

The Seahwaks are in the playoffs every year, and were in the Superbowl 2 season ago, who do they have to "throw it up to"? One could also argue our redzone problems were a result of chemistry and play-calling issues.

How many SBs have they won again? I could give a crap about other teams. I am a Skins fan. We have our own needs.

But why are you focusing on what you think Moss can't do? He brings a lot to the table, and is a scoring threat. There are other people who can help out in the redzone, such as Cooley, Yoder (yeah that's right, Yoder) Thrash, hopefully Mix will develop in to a guy you can simply just throw the ball up to. However, when you are on a team that has a run-first offense, the RB is going to get the ball near the endzone before a WR does. We were winning games even when WRs weren't scoring TDs. In actuality, there were many times the WR caught the ball, only to come up about a yard or 2 short of the endzone. Anyways, let's see what this O can do with a healthy O-line, or do we not want to admit that injuries effect team performance.

It's not what I think Moss can't do, it's what he doesn't do. Like catch balls and score. Look at the numbers. You think a #1 WR doesn't have to pull his weight because the "other" guys should step up and do his job? WTF?