Looks like we just needed a QB change...

[Guest sith lord]

soooo...let's imagine the Skins get to the SB and then lose...big...to the Past. can we count on you to say the same about Collins? Sparing us the "he got us here" tripe since winning is all that matters?

If Collins help get us to the SB after a JC led 5-7 start, he should be praised by all, including you.

[ttr77]

and why not?

the TC debate has been one dimensional and excessive...while trashing a Skins player in the process!

Why not? Because the 'I told you so' mentality should go away at about the same time one graduates high school.

[fansince62]

Why not? Because the 'I told you so' mentality should go away at about the same time one graduates high school.

oh boo f'in hoo.

folks like you are on the board regularly trashing Campbell and then invoke some universal rule of propriety when the tide flows in a different direction?

.....seems like fair play to me - or better put...we all seem to be in the same classroom. what I see on this board is very plain.....rule out the good and harp on the bad. well....cool! Many can play that game!!!!

[ttr77]

oh boo f'in hoo.

folks like you are on the board regularly trashing Campbell and then invoke some universal rule of propriety when the tide flows in a different direction?

.....seems like fair play to me - or better put...we all seem to be in the same classroom. what I see on this board is very plain.....rule out the good and harp on the bad. well....cool! Many can play that game!!!!

Well, I'm sure you already have your "I told you so' post already written for when Collins finally has a bad game. It may even be 3-4 weeks old by now. After all, if you predict something long enough in an unpredictable game, it will most likely ring true eventually.

Also, to my recollection I have never 'trashed' Campbell. I just don't think he is the best man for the job at this point.

[VFMA74]

The 4-0 run that Collins has engineered to secure us a playoff spot has been down right amazing. Many of us, myself included, were openly questioning if Joe Gibbs could still coach. Well, he has proven that he still has plenty left in the tank as we enter the playoffs as, argueably, the hottest team in the league.

Todd Collins deserves all the props he's getting by finding ALL of our WR's, throwing accurately, and not tossing game killing interceptions. Gibbs' successful teams all were directed by QB's who managed games well - not necessarily superstars, but great game managers who did not make bad decisions.

The popular sentiment is that Jason Campbell will be the QB of the future. While I hope he is, I personally am not sure I agree based on what we've seen so far. Hopefully, going into year 3 next season, he will finally start showing us something in terms game smarts and, most importantly, wins.

Todd Collins, a 36 year old career back up will not be around for long, but we certainly have enjoyed what he has delivered, have we not?

It starting to look as if Saunders and Gibbs knew what they were doing all along, we just had the wrong guy under center.

.

Watch it, you might get banned for what might be misinterpreted as bashing Jason Campbell

[TotalRecall]

I agree the Redskins are the hottest team right now. Even the Pats should have lost a couple of those games that the refs bailed them out of. However, it isn't just the QB change the reason for the success. Three things come to my mind:

1. Obviously, Collins is spreading the ball around accurately & on time to the playmakers.

2. Portis has gotten healthy. He has looked very fast these past 4 weeks.

3. The defense is really going after the QB. They aren't sitting back in a cover-2 zone like they have earlier this year.

[bobzmuda]

.

Watch it, you might get banned for what might be misinterpreted as bashing Jason Campbell

I doubt he gets banned for his opinion.

I will say his conclusion doesn't make any sense since it was Gibbs and Saunders who decided what QB to put under center to begin with.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I would think that is he doesn't make a valuable contribution to the team by the end of '08, it's time to move in a different direction.

I would agree. In addition, he should not be handed the starting position in 08. It should be open competition or TC's job to lose based on how well he's done to date and how he does in the playoffs.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I doubt he gets banned for his opinion.

I will say his conclusion doesn't make any sense since it was Gibbs and Saunders who decided what QB to put under center to begin with.

Re-read my post "all knowing one". All I'm doing is celebrating the success we've finally seen at the QB position this season. My defintion of success utlimately comes down to wins. Billy Kilmer wasn't pretty back in the day, but remains an all time fan favorite simply becasue he won games.

My opinion is backed by sound reasoning and it seems that most, except the most loyal of JC lovers, would agree with me. In fact, in reading some of your stuff, you are even admitting that TC has played great and that it should be an open competition next season for the #1 slot. I agree somewhat, but I'm leaning toward favoring it being TC's job to lose based on his success to date along with how we do in the playoffs. He has flat out been a part of a team rally that has been remarkable.

Your response to my posts? Name calling, scoffing, and ridicule, claims of me being Mrs. TC. Whatever. It matters not what you think as you seem to enjoy debating and prattling on endlessly.

Like Al Davis once said, "just win baby". Or like Bill Parcells states, "you are what your record is".

I'm absolutely thrilled that Joe Gibbs has proven to us that he has not lost his touch and am hoping this weekend is the beginning of something special. I was certainly having my doubts. Bottom line, it looks as if a simple change a QB was the final piece to the puzzle. With TC under center, we are playing much, much better.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Well, I'm sure you already have your "I told you so' post already written for when Collins finally has a bad game. It may even be 3-4 weeks old by now. After all, if you predict something long enough in an unpredictable game, it will most likely ring true eventually.

Also, to my recollection I have never 'trashed' Campbell. I just don't think he is the best man for the job at this point.

:laugh: No doubt about. FanSince62 is just itching to hit the "enter" button to post his glee the next time TC has a bad game.

Hopefully, he will have an awfully long wait!

All the best in 08!

Go Skinnnnnnnns!!!

[Ghost of]

If Collins help get us to the SB after a JC led 5-7 start, he should be praised by all, including you.

Did we bash Joe Theismann for getting us to the SB in 83, even though we got pummeled? Even though we lost, didn't that trip cement the legitimacy of the 82 championship team (strike shortened-year)

Who entered 1984 as starting QB? How old was JT at the time?

[SearchHorizon]

fansince62 is just itching to hit the "enter" button to post his glee the next time TC has a bad game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I am sure he will hit that button even if TC takes us to the SB and fails to win the rings (e.g., "He is not the kind of QB that can take us all the way ... TC couldn't do it with all the support that would have made any QB successful, including JC ... Now, time to move forward with improving this team with eyes firmly set on the horizon ... ").

[skinfan2k]

Mark Maske said it perfectly on WPL, Collins is a pitcher who is going thru the league at once and can be exposed the 2nd go around. But there isnt a 2nd go around with him with such a short season upon us. However, the deficiencies of him would be exposed over the long haul of the season.

[SearchHorizon]

However, the deficiencies of him would be exposed over the long haul of the season.

And what exactly is that deficiency? Weak arm? Didn't the G-spots try to compress the field to take advantage of that, and TC repeatedly toasted them, with LONG passes to Moss?

Mini Dykes tried to increase pressure (probably hoping to fluster him lik a rookie); TC responded by throwing to receivers close to sidelines. Again, TC toasted them.

So, what IS exactly his weakness?

[skinfan2k]

And what exactly is that deficiency? Weak arm? Didn't the G-spots try to compress the field to take advantage of that, and TC repeatedly toasted them, with LONG passes to Moss?

Mini Dykes tried to increase pressure (probably hoping to fluster him lik a rookie); TC responded by throwing to receivers at side lines and playing draws. Again, TC toasted them.

So, what IS exactly his weakness?

Hey i just quoted and summarized what he said. Let me rewind it real quick unless i changed the channel

[SearchHorizon]

Hey i just quoted and summarized what he said. Let me rewind it real quick unless i changed the channel

lol, unnecessary ... I am posting and responding to other posts for fun ... I got too eager ... sorry.

[skinfan2k]

Wow, did you just listen to ARE, and how he said that Gibbs realized how the Buffalo game was on him and that he told the players that he was gonna be aggressive in games now and not sit on leads any more and they were going to close our games

[bobzmuda]

Your response to my posts? Name calling, scoffing, and ridicule, claims of me being Mrs. TC. Whatever.

Well, when your posts are filled with falsehoods it's hard to take you seriously even when you do make a good point.

I'm still waiting for you to prove some of your claims of what I've said, like me claiming JC would be the next Tom Brady.

Just admit you're prone to exaggeration and hyperbole. If you don't, I don't know how else to read your misrepresentations except as intentional out and out lies.

It matters not what you think as you seem to enjoy debating and prattling on endlessly.

I'm not the one who has started multiple threads on the same topic. Why should you get your knickers in a bunch if I try to hold you accountable in your own threads?

Like Al Davis once said, "just win baby". Or like Bill Parcells states, "you are what your record is".

I think those sayings apply to a team as a whole, and not to any individual. Otherwise you would have to believe Mike Vick was a great QB when the Falcons were winning, but somehow turned into a terrible QB when they were losing, and that Vince Young is a great QB despite having a 1:2 TD:INT ratio.

I'm absolutely thrilled that Joe Gibbs has proven to us that he has not lost his touch and am hoping this weekend is the beginning of something special. I was certainly having my doubts. Bottom line, it looks as if a simple change a QB was the final piece to the puzzle. With TC under center, we are playing much, much better.

There's no doubt the Redskins are playing their best ball right now. Unlike you I'm not sure whether starting TC is the cause of this winning streak or merely correlated with it. Still, as everyone agrees, you ride the hot hand until it's not.

[fansince62]

If Collins help get us to the SB after a JC led 5-7 start, he should be praised by all, including you.

no...the standard in play is winning. what the heck are you talking about?

[fansince62]

Well, I'm sure you already have your "I told you so' post already written for when Collins finally has a bad game. It may even be 3-4 weeks old by now. After all, if you predict something long enough in an unpredictable game, it will most likely ring true eventually.

Also, to my recollection I have never 'trashed' Campbell. I just don't think he is the best man for the job at this point.

but that's precisely the point....most of the Campbell detractors have focused on the bad without any context whatsoever. including...ahemmm...some we all know and love who are prone to generalizations completely abstracted from context and history. it has been mindnumbingly simplistic.....it is no way to judge a player and no way to grow your roster.

this will go on endlessly. we shall see what we shall see!

good luck TC! practice with an up tempo metronome - the heat escalates in the playoffs and as will timing demands.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

but that's precisely the point....most of the Campbell detractors have focused on the bad without any context whatsoever. including...ahemmm...some we all know and love who are prone to generalizations completely abstracted from context and history. it has been mindnumbingly simplistic.....it is no way to judge a player and no way to grow your roster.

this will go on endlessly. we shall see what we shall see!

good luck TC! practice with an up tempo metronome - the heat escalates in the playoffs and as will timing demands.

Deep stuff guy.

[RedDog58]

I hate message board insults but you people amaze me.

Campbell played 28.5 minutes vs. the Bears. When he went out the score was 0-0 and the Skins had 108 yards of offense. Collins came in and played the final 31.5 minutes. The Skins scored 24 points and gained 237 yards of offense. Are you going to tell me that the defense and WRs suddenly started playing better when Campbell got carted off and the "Collins effect" was minimal?

You people who think that Collins isn't head and shoulders above Campbell are just plain ignorant. He's not operating one level ahead of Campbell, he's 25 levels above him.

[IrepDC]

The team that JC went 5-7 with and the team that Collins has gone 4-0 with are much MUCH different.

JC played the majority of his games without Moss and Randel El, and when they were in they were playing injured.

Collins has been playing with a 100% Moss and Randel EL.

JC played with Caldwell and McCardell when they'd only had DAYS to learn an entire offense.

Collins has been playing with Caldwell and McCardell after they've had a weeks to get situated.

JC' had to throw to Thrash and B. Lloyd at one point...........

JC played while our o-line was dropping like flies... and while our backup o-line was coming in and getting situated.

Collins has been playing with an o-line that has had weeks to jell and are already in a rhythm.

JC played with a RB, Portis, who was coming off injury and trying to get back on track.

Collins has been playing with a RB, Portis, who has had time to get back on track with himself and his o-line.

JC played with a defense that was playing soft and giving up a lot of big plays.

Collins has been playing with a defense that is aggresive and forces turnovers to give our offense a short field.

JC played with a team and coaching staff that seemed uninspired and unfocused at times.

Collins has been playing with a team and coaching staff that has come together and been motivated, focused, and inspired after the passing of their fallen teammate.

Call me crazy, but I think the cause of this 4 game winning streak is due to more than a QB change. Collins has played well but Campbell was playing very well also. Collins hasn't been THAT much better than Campbell that he should be getting all the praise for this streak. But that's just my opinion.

[RocketCitySkins]

I hate message board insults but you people amaze me.

Campbell played 28.5 minutes vs. the Bears. When he went out the score was 0-0 and the Skins had 108 yards of offense. Collins came in and played the final 31.5 minutes. The Skins scored 24 points and gained 237 yards of offense. Are you going to tell me that the defense and WRs suddenly started playing better when Campbell got carted off and the "Collins effect" was minimal?

You people who think that Collins isn't head and shoulders above Campbell are just plain ignorant. He's not operating one level ahead of Campbell, he's 25 levels above him.

JC had two drives in the Bears game that went the length of the field , both stalled by CP run's that went no where and even lost yardage. Then Suisham missed two field goals. I don't disagree that TC is playing better but explain to me again why CP running backwards and Suisham missing field goals is JC's fault. I guess I'm too ignorant to understand that.

[RedDog58]

The team that JC went 5-7 with and the team that Collins has gone 4-0 with are much MUCH different.

JC played the majority of his games without Moss and Randel El, and when they were in they were playing injured.

Collins has been playing with a 100% Moss and Randel EL.

JC played with Caldwell and McCardell when they'd only had DAYS to learn an entire offense.

Collins has been playing with Caldwell and McCardell after they've had a weeks to get situated.

JC' had to throw to Thrash and B. Lloyd at one point...........

JC played while our o-line was dropping like flies... and while our backup o-line was coming in and getting situated.

Collins has been playing with an o-line that has had weeks to jell and are already in a rhythm.

JC played with a RB, Portis, who was coming off injury and trying to get back on track.

Collins has been playing with a RB, Portis, who has had time to get back on track with himself and his o-line.

JC played with a defense that was playing soft and giving up a lot of big plays.

Collins has been playing with a defense that is aggresive and forces turnovers to give our offense a short field.

JC played with a team and coaching staff that seemed uninspired and unfocused at times.

Collins has been playing with a team and coaching staff that has come together and been motivated, focused, and inspired after the passing of their fallen teammate.

Call me crazy, but I think the cause of this 4 game winning streak is due to more than a QB change. Collins has played well but Campbell was playing very well also. Collins hasn't been THAT much better than Campbell that he should be getting all the praise for this streak. But that's just my opinion.

And what is it about a 77.6 QB rating that tells you Campbell was playing well? Do you even know what you're watching?