To Set The Record Straight: How the Swift Boat Veterans Defeated John Kerry

[ATV]

I bet you it is in Kerry's military file that he STILL has not made public

Wrong.

Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records

Show numerous commendations

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.

The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe, are mostly a duplication of what Kerry released during his 2004 campaign for president, including numerous commendations from commanding officers who later criticized Kerry's Vietnam service.

The lack of any substantive new material about Kerry's military career in the documents raises the question of why Kerry refused for so long to waive privacy restrictions. An earlier release of the full record might have helped his campaign because it contains a number of reports lauding his service. Indeed, one of the first actions of the group that came to be known as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was to call on Kerry to sign a privacy waiver and release all of his military and medical records.

But Kerry refused, even though it turned out that the records included commendations from some of the same veterans who were criticizing him.

On May 20, Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ''undeleted" copy of his ''complete military service record and medical record" to the Globe. Asked why he delayed signing the form for so long, Kerry said in a written response: ''The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn't kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out."

Many of the records contain praise for Kerry's service. For example, the documents quote Kerry's former commanding officers as saying he is ''one of the finest young officers with whom I have served;" is ''the acknowledged leader of his peer group;" and is ''highly recommended for promotion."

Kerry's refusal to waive privacy restrictions dates back to at least May 2003, when the Globe asked in writing for Kerry to sign the Form 180. As questions were raised about various actions in Vietnam, the Kerry campaign gradually released documents last year, but had not authorized the release of the entire file until now.

In April 2004, Kerry said he had already released his military records. ''I've shown them, they're available for you to come and look at," Kerry said in a television interview. But when a reporter showed up at campaign headquarters, he was told that no new records would be released. That prompted a flood of Republican criticism, and the campaign responded by gradually releasing more military records on its website. Kerry then released his ''fitness reports" -- evaluations by commanding officers -- on April 21, 2004.

Two days later, the campaign allowed some reporters to view Kerry's medical record but did not allow copies to be made and did not post that information online.

By signing Form 180 now, Kerry may hope to achieve several goals: settle the question of whether there is an explosive document in the file; put pressure on critics to release their military records; and try to put to rest an issue that dogged his 2004 campaign and would probably come up again if he seeks the presidency in 2008.

The file does not provide new documents about various combat actions. It contains mostly a repetition of Kerry's citations for the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts. For example, it does not include the combat ''after action reports" that detail what happened in some of the firefights in which Kerry participated. Those reports are available for public inspection at the Navy historical center in Washington and have already been widely disseminated.

John O'Neill, the leader of the Swift Boat veterans group and coauthor of the book ''Unfit for Command," said yesterday that he would be disappointed if Kerry's files do not contain new information. ''I would still have the same beliefs expressed in my book," he said.

O'Neill, who said he has already authorized the release of his records, has questioned a number of Kerry's combat actions involving the first Purple Heart, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star.

For example, Kerry received his first Purple Heart for action on Dec. 2, 1968. Kerry told historian Douglas Brinkley that ''I never saw where the piece of shrapnel had come from." Kerry's critics have questioned whether the wound came from enemy fire, and his former commanding officer said the wound resembled a ''scratch." The file includes a previously reported reference to Kerry being treated for the wound and that he was awarded the Purple Heart, but it does not address the details of the combat that night. No after-action report for the incident has been found.

From http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/

[ZoEd]

The later two are the from the OFFICIAL Miltary Records (Not some BS account from doubters who weren't even there)....

First - Military records released by the Kerry campaign are unclear as to details, but a citation does show that Kerry received a Purple Heart for an unspecified incident on December 3, 1968. The Boston Globe has also reported a medical report shows treatment for a wound on December 3, 1968; this record does not appear to have been made available along with other records at the Kerry campaign's website.

Second - A casualty report notes that "while serving as OINC aboard PCF 94 engaged in operations in the above river, LTJG Kerry suffered shrapnel wounds in his left thigh, when PCF 94 came under intense hostile A/W and rocket fire." A casualty report for crewmate Eugene Thorson also indicates that he suffered shrapnel wounds on February 20, 1969 "when PCF 94 came under intense hostile A/W and rocket fire."

Third - According to a citation signed by Vice Admiral E.R. Zumwalt Jr., Kerry was participating in a five-boat operation on March 13, 1969 on the Bay Hap River. One mine detonated under PCF-3, "lifting it two feet above the water and wounding everyone aboard," and another mine detonated close to Kerry's boat, knocking 1st Lt. James Rassman into the water and wounding Kerry in the right arm. While another boat stayed behind to help PCF-3, PCF-94 provided cover fire and went downriver. Kerry then turned PCF-94 around to help Rassman, "who by this time was receiving sniper fire from the river banks." While PCF-94's gunners provided suppressing fire, Kerry pulled Rassman aboard. Kerry then directed PCF-94 to assist PCF-3.

A casualty report notes that Kerry "suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94." This record is inconsistent with what Kerry told Douglas Brinkley and what Rassman told the Boston Globe. Rassman said that he believes that the injury to Kerry's right arm occurred because of the mine explosion and that the injury to the buttocks may have occurred earlier.

The Purple Heart citation indicates only that it was for "injuries received on 13 March 1969."

There you have it.

Didn't claim he didn't receive the medals, I'm saying I doubt he received the wounds claimed to be awarded the medals. Three purple hearts in four months? That doesn't make you raise and eyebrow? Was he in situations that were that dangerous or was he a Gomer Pyle of the Swift Boat crew? I just have my doubts that's all.

Trust me, I've sat in awards ceremony and heard a medal citation read for 5 firemen who all single handedly put out a break fire on a C5 aircraft. How does 5 guys single handedly do anything?

[ATV]

Three purple hearts in four months? That doesn't make you raise and eyebrow?

It does makes me wonder what they DON'T give Purple Hearts out for, but it doesn't make me question the authentcity of the records or the integrity of John Kerry

[Kelvin Bryant]

This is a pretty good response to the "you can't talk about Kerry unless you were on his boat" nonsense:

[ATV]

Yea, that's pretty good if you don't put much thought into things.

[Burgold]

Off topic: I find it interesting that Paul Revere did not warn the Colonials that the Red Coats were coming. Your political cartoon reminded me of that. Revere was actually caught by the Red Coats and held. His partner made the famous ride.

The poem was written about Revere and we all know about him because he was more of a loud mouth which coincidentally is why he was the one detained.

[Kelvin Bryant]

What the Swift Vets were able to demonstrate, as people who have actually read "Unfit for Command" are aware, is that the "official records" support Kerry because he wrote the after action reports. The veterans supplied multiple eyewitnesses willing to swear under oath that Kerry's reports of these events were false.

John O'Neill invited Kerry to sue him if any of the charges in the book could be proven false. Kerry made lots of noises about lawsuits, but never filed. He chose wisely. Lawsuits involve something called "discovery."

[Mad Mike]

The later two are the from the OFFICIAL Miltary Records (Not some BS account from doubters who weren't even there)....

First - Military records released by the Kerry campaign are unclear as to details, but a citation does show that Kerry received a Purple Heart for an unspecified incident on December 3, 1968. The Boston Globe has also reported a medical report shows treatment for a wound on December 3, 1968; this record does not appear to have been made available along with other records at the Kerry campaign's website.

Second - A casualty report notes that "while serving as OINC aboard PCF 94 engaged in operations in the above river, LTJG Kerry suffered shrapnel wounds in his left thigh, when PCF 94 came under intense hostile A/W and rocket fire." A casualty report for crewmate Eugene Thorson also indicates that he suffered shrapnel wounds on February 20, 1969 "when PCF 94 came under intense hostile A/W and rocket fire."

Third - According to a citation signed by Vice Admiral E.R. Zumwalt Jr., Kerry was participating in a five-boat operation on March 13, 1969 on the Bay Hap River. One mine detonated under PCF-3, "lifting it two feet above the water and wounding everyone aboard," and another mine detonated close to Kerry's boat, knocking 1st Lt. James Rassman into the water and wounding Kerry in the right arm. While another boat stayed behind to help PCF-3, PCF-94 provided cover fire and went downriver. Kerry then turned PCF-94 around to help Rassman, "who by this time was receiving sniper fire from the river banks." While PCF-94's gunners provided suppressing fire, Kerry pulled Rassman aboard. Kerry then directed PCF-94 to assist PCF-3.

A casualty report notes that Kerry "suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard PCF-94." This record is inconsistent with what Kerry told Douglas Brinkley and what Rassman told the Boston Globe. Rassman said that he believes that the injury to Kerry's right arm occurred because of the mine explosion and that the injury to the buttocks may have occurred earlier.

The Purple Heart citation indicates only that it was for "injuries received on 13 March 1969."

There you have it.

And since you keep ignoring it....

On the night of December 2-3, we conducted one of these operations, and Lt. (jg) Kerry accompanied me. Our call sign for that operation was "Batman." I have no independent recollection of the identity of the enlisted man, who was operating the outboard motor. Sometime during the early morning hours, I thought I detected some movement inland. At the time we were so close to land that we could hear water lapping on the shoreline. I fired a hand-held flare, and upon it bursting and illuminating the surrounding area, I thought I saw movement. I immediately opened fire with my M-60. It jammed after a brief burst. Lt. (jg) Kerry also opened fire with his M-16 on automatic, firing in the direction of my tracers. His weapon also jammed. As I was trying to clear my weapon, I heard the distinctive sound of the M-79 being fired and turned to see Lt. (jg) Kerry holding the M-79 from which he had just launched a round. We received no return fire of any kind nor were there any muzzle flashes from the beach. I directed the outboard motor operator to clear the area.

Upon returning to base, I informed my commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, of the events, informing him of the details of the operation and that we had received no enemy fire. I did not file an "after action" report, as one was only required when there was hostile fire. Soon thereafter, Lt. (jg) Kerry requested that he be put in for a Purple Heart as a result of a small piece of shrapnel removed from his arm that he attributed to the just-completed mission. I advised Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard that I could not support the request because there was no hostile fire. The shrapnel must have been a fragment from the M-79 that struck Lt. (jg) Kerry, because he had fired the M-79 too close to our boat. Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard denied Lt. (jg) Kerry's request. Lt. (jg) Kerry detached our division a few days later to be reassigned to another division. I departed Vietnam approximately three weeks later, and Lt. Cmdr. Hibbard followed shortly thereafter. It was not until years later that I was surprised to learn that Lt. (jg) Kerry had been awarded a Purple Heart for this night.

I did not see Lt. (jg) Kerry in person again for almost 20 years. Sometime in 1988, while I was on Capitol Hill, I ran into him in the basement of the Russell Senate Office Building. I was at that time a Rear Admiral and in uniform. He was about 20 paces away, waiting to catch the underground subway. In a fairly loud voice I called out to him, "Hey, John." He turned, looked at me, came over and said, "Batman!" We exchanged pleasantries for a few minutes, agreed to have lunch sometime in the future, and parted ways. We have not been together since that day.

In March of this year, I was contacted by one of my former swift boat colleagues concerning Douglas Brinkleyπs book about Senator Kerry, "Tour of Duty." I told him that I had not read it. He faxed me a copy of the pages relating to the action on the night of December 2-3, 1968. I was astonished by Senator Kerry's rendition of the facts of that night. Notably, Lt. (jg) Kerry had himself in charge of the operation, and I was not mentioned at all. He also claimed that he was wounded by hostile fire. None of this is accurate.

I know, because I was not only in the boat, but I was in command of the mission. He was never more than several feet away from me at anytime during the operation that night. It is inconceivable that any commanding officer would put an officer in training, who had been in country only a couple of weeks, in charge of such an ambush operation. Had there been enemy action that night, there would have been an after action report filed, which I would have been responsible for filing.

Statement of RADM (Rear Admiral) William L. Schachte, Jr. USN (Ret.)

August 27, 2004

[jpillian]

To all the vets on the board, especially combat veterans: How many of you would take the opportunity to slander one of your comrades in arms in a political campaign?

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if someone I'd served with made a run for the Presidency. There's not many that I can think of that I wouldn't support wholeheartedly. None that I can think of that I'd dredge up skeleton's or worse yet manufacture lies about.

From that perspective, I've always given the Swift Boat Vets a certain degree of authenticty on that facet alone. Kerry must have been a real piece of crap for them to so strongly and vehemently oppose his bid to become Commander in Chief.

[Burgold]

I think that's fair, Jpillian. I also think that's where the Benedict Arnold factor comes into play or at least partially comes into play. I think the wounds made by Kerry's statements and exaggerated broke several unwritten codes and he became the enemy.

On a personal level, he does seem like an arrogant, egotistical bum who thinks far too much of himself. I don't know if that's really here or there, though.

[ZoEd]

To all the vets on the board, especially combat veterans: How many of you would take the opportunity to slander one of your comrades in arms in a political campaign?

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if someone I'd served with made a run for the Presidency. There's not many that I can think of that I wouldn't support wholeheartedly. None that I can think of that I'd dredge up skeleton's or worse yet manufacture lies about.

From that perspective, I've always given the Swift Boat Vets a certain degree of authenticty on that facet alone. Kerry must have been a real piece of crap for them to so strongly and vehemently oppose his bid to become Commander in Chief.

No way, if anything I might embellish a little myself to help a brother out. I wouldn't lie but although the fish may have only been three pounds what's the harm in saying it was a five pounder? Again, I don't know what a former Rear Admiral would have to gain unless he himself was involved in the political arena.

[The_cavalierman]

Did these swift boat guys go after Kerry during his senatorial campaigns?

[jpillian]

I think that's fair, Jpillian. I also think that's where the Benedict Arnold factor comes into play or at least partially comes into play. I think the wounds made by Kerry's statements and exaggerated broke several unwritten codes and he became the enemy.

On a personal level, he does seem like an arrogant, egotistical bum who thinks far too much of himself. I don't know if that's really here or there, though.

Absolutely. And I think that's definitely one of the events that's motivated the Swifties.

And again, none of this is any form of proof, just relating an aspect that might shed some light on the Swifties motivation. Undoubtedly, Kerry's anti-war activities following his service is another motivator for the Swifties(as you allued).

[Kelvin Bryant]

Yea, that's pretty good if you don't put much thought into things.

Right.

I have a published book out on this topic based on hundreds of interviews and two years of research. It has 1,200 footnotes.

You, on the other hand, think you're scoring points by parroting discredited DNC talking points from 2004 and copying junk from Wikipedia.

There's no point in responding to any more of your posts. Please feel free to hoot, thump yourself on the chest, and declare victory.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Did these swift boat guys go after Kerry during his senatorial campaigns?

No. As I posted earlier, they didn't care if he was a Senator in Massachusetts. However, they found it intolerable that he should become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces.

[The_cavalierman]

To all the vets on the board, especially combat veterans: How many of you would take the opportunity to slander one of your comrades in arms in a political campaign?

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if someone I'd served with made a run for the Presidency. There's not many that I can think of that I wouldn't support wholeheartedly. None that I can think of that I'd dredge up skeleton's or worse yet manufacture lies about.

From that perspective, I've always given the Swift Boat Vets a certain degree of authenticty on that facet alone. Kerry must have been a real piece of crap for them to so strongly and vehemently oppose his bid to become Commander in Chief.

I am a combat veteran and would definitely go after a fraud because I do not want anyone to insult the honor of those who served with me in combat.

The question I have for these swift boat guys is if they knew Kerry was a fraud like they claimed then why didn't they go after him during his senatorial campaigns? Why did they wait for him to run for president before they sprung into action?

A fraud is a fraud so if you know a guy is lying then you go after him no matter what he is running for. The actions of these swift boat guys have me thinking this was more political than done out of honor.

My opinion is based on the little I've learned in this thread plus my own feelings as a combat vet.

[ZoEd]

Did these swift boat guys go after Kerry during his senatorial campaigns?

Who cares about a Senator? If a guy from a unit you were in 25 years ago ran for Senator in a state that you gave a rats ass about would you care? Even if I did know I would probably shake my head and comment about how his candy ass probably sold his soul to get there. It has no bearing on a national scale. Now, he's running for president of the United States where his position would have a bearing on my life and it's a whole different ballgame. Not to mention due to his campaign strategy of tooting his horn about his "hero" record and acts of bravery which you know are greatly embellished you now have more than enough reason to come forward where you may nothave when he was merely a Senator of one of the smallest states in the Union.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Another reason the Swift Vets didn't go after Kerry before 2004 is that they were responding to claims Kerry made in 2004 -- specifically the stories about Kerry's derring-do in Douglas Brinkley's campaign biography, "Tour of Duty" and his "No Man Left Behind" TV ad series, both of which came out in January. The latter was so distorted that the three other surviving officers who had been present didn't even realize what event Kerry was talking about for several weeks. It took the Swift Vets time to interview eyewitnesses and construct a full picture of Kerry's tour - something nobody had the time or the motivation to do prior to 2004.

[The_cavalierman]

No. As I posted earlier, they didn't care if he was a Senator in Massachusetts. However, they found it intolerable that he should become Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces.

I'm sorry dude....that makes their actions political IMO.

If a guy I served with in combat is lying (and I know it) I am going to say something no matter if he is running for POTUS or the local PTA.

I am not going to wait until his retirement party and all of a sudden get angry?

Come on...

I did not know much about this until now but these swift boat guys were on a mission from the GOP because this had ZERO to do with honor IMO.

[TrumanB]

Undoubtedly, Kerry's anti-war activities following his service is another motivator for the Swifties(as you allued).

I don't think it was just "another" motivator, I think it was THE motivator. Kerry's testimony before Congress struck such a nerve with so many Vietnam War vets that they still hated and resented him 30+ years after the fact. My father is a

Vietnam vet, so I know personally his feelings towards this man. Kerry's testimony was primarily motivated for political reasons and that just added to the hate. Whether it's fair or not to question his tour in Vietnam, the man brought it on himself, so I feel no sympathy. As they say, Karma is a *****.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Read the post above yours.

[The_cavalierman]

Who cares about a Senator? If a guy from a unit you were in 25 years ago ran for Senator in a state that you gave a rats ass about would you care? Even if I did know I would probably shake my head and comment about how his candy ass probably sold his soul to get there. It has no bearing on a national scale. Now, he's running for president of the United States where his position would have a bearing on my life and it's a whole different ballgame. Not to mention due to his campaign strategy of tooting his horn about his "hero" record and acts of bravery which you know are greatly embellished you now have more than enough reason to come forward where you may nothave when he was merely a Senator of one of the smallest states in the Union.

I would care...

If a guy I served with was lying about a situation in which some of my best friends died and he was running for a public office or the PTA I would nuke his @ss first privately to make him aware I know he is lying. If he did not voluntarily admit his lies I would go public.

What I don't like about these swift boat guys is their selective anger...

Senator is ok but President is not.....BULL

[Kelvin Bryant]

Let's try that again.

If a guy I served with in combat is lying (and I know it) I am going to say something no matter if he is running for POTUS or the local PTA....

Read my post above yours. The Swift Vets didn't realize what Kerry had done until 2004, when his biography and campaign ads came out.

[The_cavalierman]

Let's try that again.

Read my post above yours. The Swift Vets didn't realize what Kerry had done until 2004, when his biography and campaign ads came out.

If Kerry's testimony pissed so many people off to include these SB guys over 25 years ago then why didn't they go after him the moment they saw him running for anything?

If someone pisses me off...I am going to stay on that @ss until I take a chunk of it..

That is why I am having a hard time believing these swift boat guys aren't politically motivated.

[TrumanB]

Senator is ok but President is not.....BULL

Well, wouldn't you say that he would have a greater impact as the President of the United States than he would as one of 100 senators. Personally, I would prefer that neither he or Ted Kennedy be in the U.S. Senate, but they impact a lot less than if either one of them were in the White House. :2cents: