Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 according to some, were much classier now and were all behind coach gibbs, whereas we werent with spurrier or norv. funny thing is, the record doesnt change one bit no matter how classy we get or how much we buy into what gibbs is selling. gibbs needs to go, and go immediately. i hope he announces his retirement before the cowboys game so he can have one last dance in DC before he hangs up the spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I, too, wouldnt have fired marty...the man went 8-8 with tony freaking banks as his qb after starting 0-5....that may be the biggest mistake in all of this... I guess there is good news, the Danny can always re-hire him seeing that he's not in coaching. The problem is Marty obviously doesn't play nice with ANY GM. He didn't want a GM situation here in DC and he got himself in some trouble in San Diego as well. This team NEEDS a stinking GM. Then it needs a coach, then it needs a new staff, ... Sigh Truth be told I think it Cowher came in we could keep the same players, because there is a lot of talent. However, the more I see of Arizona the more I begin to wonder in Grimm wouldn't do such a bad job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobra860 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Norv Turner never showed any sign of promise yet he coached the team for 6 years. He has always been mediocre and should have been fired after his 3rd season. Spurrier was just a disaster and personally I wished we had stuck with Schottenheimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Coach Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 A head coach's main job is to put the players in a possition to win the game. It's been a long time, but I don't remember being disapointed with Turner's gameplans/calling the plays. I recall the main problem with him is that he wasn't a controlling figure and that's the excuse people gave why the Redskins would turn the ball over. I get the impression that even the players do not think they are being put in the best position to win these games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I, too, wouldnt have fired marty...the man went 8-8 with tony freaking banks as his qb after starting 0-5....that may be the biggest mistake in all of this... Hell, that alone should have won him Coach Of The Year!!! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I, too, wouldnt have fired marty...the man went 8-8 with tony freaking banks as his qb after starting 0-5 Hell, that alone should have won him Coach Of The Year!!! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseGoForTheWin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I think that had we let Marty run the team for another 2 years, we'd have been a winning franchise. Gibbs is a legend and I'll always be appreciative of him, but it's clear that he has to go. And while our D sometimes looks good, the common element is that we tend to allow too many big plays. Those have been problems regardless of who the coaches have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 it appears to me as if the coaching staff lacks confidence in the players, which prevents the Redskins from making any big played. On offense, we run the ball three times to try and kill clock instead of letting campbell play his game. On defense, recently we've been playing this soft zone that leaves in short middle wide open, and we are getting zero turnovers because we refuse to hit the receivers at the line and play aggressively. On both sides of the ball, we need to have confidence in our team. I would rather lose because we took some big shots and fell short instead of not even trying and hoping we can kill the clock. If we want the game to hurry up and be over, why do we even bother showing up? id feel much better if the redskins hired you. this is exactly why we lose games. every reason you listed is dead on as to why we suck so bad. if we dont change these and fast, were going to continue losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Dan Snyder made a high-risk hire when he brought Joe Gibbs back and gave him total control of the team. After Beathard left, Joe and Casserly's brief collaboration on roster building didn't go well. Their signature move was giving up two first round draft choices for Desmond Howard. In 1981, he came in with an innovative offensive scheme that had already been field-tested in San Diego. Now 12 games into his fourth season, Joe's still playing catch up on offensive strategy with his NFL counterparts. Joe's plan on building the roster was a modified George Allen, "the future is now," approach shunning the draft in favor of free agency and trades. It fell flat and was abandoned after last season. We will be paying the price, a roster lacking in depth and unable to handle injuries to starters, for at least the next few years. I hope Joe doesn't embarrass himself in finishing out his career as a sideline coach, but I hope he isn't there next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanyt Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Its late, and my shoulder hurts, so I thought I would look this up...I make no judgment on the numbers, but here they are... in his 2 years here Steve Spurrier was 12-20 for a win pctg. of: .375 in his time here Norv Turner was 49-59-1 for a win pctg of: .450 thus far in Gibbs II we are 26-34 for a win pctg of: .433 Schottenheimer was .500 in his one season, of course... Make of it what you will...I found it interesting.... So obviously Mr. Snyder if current performance benchmarks past performance of 3 other coaches that you considered sub par then maybe it's time for Gibbs to go and seek out a new one. Hell Marty only had 1 year here and went on to San D. I hear he didn't do to bad over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 there is a simple reason for this... we are cursed by the ghost of Jack Kent Cooke ever since we named the stadium after him then switched it to FedEx for money. QFT - the condition is called a Schnyde. A little loose with the spelling perhaps but still suitable in an eery way. I hope we get off it one these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 its not even that we need a GM, we just need a change in philosophy in how we aquire players. gibbs or a GM, the fact that we decide to ignore the draft is why we fail, and the fact that gibbs loves throwing money at FAs is why we fail. whats most ironic about this, weve hit on all of our first round picks taylor was elite rogers was finally showing he was very good landry looks great campbell is going to be at least a very solid NFL QB cooley was a 3rd rounder and was great dockery was a 3rd rounder (even though spurrier drafted him, he was still good) rocky was a 2nd and hes very good problem is, we just never use the draft. imagine if we actually used the draft, and we could triple the amount of talent weve aquired from it? but instead we waste picks elsewhere. i just wish it would stop, and until i see us picking in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, i wont be happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins fan1010 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Try comparing apples to apples: Gibbs II is 26 - 34 in 60 games with one playoff in three years Turner was 24 - 35 - 1 in 60 games with one playoff in seven years Huge Edge Gibbs II Spurrier was 12 - 20 in his two years and ZERO playoffs Gibbs II was 16 - 16 in his first two years with a playoff appearance, a playoff win on the road and one dropped INT from the NFC championship game Huge Edge Gibbs II I'm jus sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 its not even that we need a GM, we just need a change in philosophy in how we aquire players. gibbs or a GM, the fact that we decide to ignore the draft is why we fail, and the fact that gibbs loves throwing money at FAs is why we fail.whats most ironic about this, weve hit on all of our first round picks taylor was elite rogers was finally showing he was very good landry looks great campbell is going to be at least a very solid NFL QB cooley was a 3rd rounder and was great dockery was a 3rd rounder (even though spurrier drafted him, he was still good) rocky was a 2nd and hes very good problem is, we just never use the draft. imagine if we actually used the draft, and we could triple the amount of talent weve aquired from it? but instead we waste picks elsewhere. i just wish it would stop, and until i see us picking in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, i wont be happy about it. very true, and don't forget about Golston and Montgomery being found in the late rounds of the draft. Gibbs II is kinda like the opposite of Marty when he was here. Marty good coach, bad gm Gibbs II good gm, bad coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 It's sad that Gibbs couldn't even muster a better record than Norv Turner, who's an absolute joke of a coach. This team's front office structure needs to be completely retooled if it's going to have any success. There needs to be a long term direction and that can only be set by a general manager. Snyder has no vision and is the common denominator for all of those coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 problem is, we just never use the draft. imagine if we actually used the draft, and we could triple the amount of talent weve aquired from it? but instead we waste picks elsewhere. i just wish it would stop, and until i see us picking in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, i wont be happy about it. The team needs to drop the microwave oven mentality and realize that drafted players are just as marketable as high dollar free agents. And it's less expensive if you do it well. In addition to that it makes for better cohesion because players will stick around longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Try comparing apples to apples:Gibbs II is 26 - 34 in 60 games with one playoff in three years Turner was 24 - 35 - 1 in 60 games with one playoff in seven years Huge Edge Gibbs II Spurrier was 12 - 20 in his two years and ZERO playoffs Gibbs II was 16 - 16 in his first two years with a playoff appearance, a playoff win on the road and one dropped INT from the NFC championship game Huge Edge Gibbs II I'm jus sayin' if you want to do that, i'll choose the last two years of gibbs II to compare to spurrier... spurrier 12-20, no playoffs gibbs II 10-18 (to date), and it aint looking rosy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Try comparing apples to apples:Gibbs II is 26 - 34 in 60 games with one playoff in three years Turner was 24 - 35 - 1 in 60 games with one playoff in seven years Huge Edge Gibbs II Spurrier was 12 - 20 in his two years and ZERO playoffs Gibbs II was 16 - 16 in his first two years with a playoff appearance, a playoff win on the road and one dropped INT from the NFC championship game Huge Edge Gibbs II I'm jus sayin' lol at huge edge. please take off the homer glasses. the one season we eeked into the playoffs and showed the worst offensive game ever in a win is hardly a huge edge. the guy is a crappy coach, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 My feelings on this thread: 1. We lost that Dallas game in 1991. First loss of the season. 2. Norv years were way worse. Not only did the team often fall flat, but they often had no effort, and more often griped about each other in the locker-room. That was not a team. Even the playoff year our defense was borderline miserable. 3. Spurrier years were no better at all. In fact much worse. 4. We may not be winning with Gibbs, and we may have made some big FA mistakes, but the team he has compiled is a team you can respect. These guys don't blame each other, they don't often seem to have a lack of effort, and they have stuck together. Archuletta is the one man who spoke out against this team while still here and the players have inferred enough about him since for us to understand where the problem really was. 5. The Redskins as a franchise has more often than not chosen veteran players over draft picks. This started with George Allen and still went on during Gibbs I. Gibbs has never been very big on rookies and generally did not play them during his first tenure. 6. It has been stated on this board that exactly 10 teams have won a SB since Gibbs left the first time. It isn't easy to win in this league. We have two playoff births since Gibbs first left and I know there are plenty of other teams with the same or less amount over that span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 4. We may not be winning with Gibbs, and we may have made some big FA mistakes, but the team he has compiled is a team you can respect. These guys don't blame each other, they don't often seem to have a lack of effort, and they have stuck together. Archuletta is the one man who spoke out against this team while still here and the players have inferred enough about him since for us to understand where the problem really was. this is ridiculous. just because we dont hear about it doesnt mean it isnt happening. wow, so we dont hear portis on the radio saying daniels sucks at rushing the passer. who cares? daniels sucks at rushing the passer. were still losing games, and i cannot believe that some of you are willing to look past the LOSING and aleviate gibbs yet again of the bad job hes doing. but yes, gibbs has created a culture where nobody holds anybody accountable, and everybody is "sticking together" and keeping quiet in the media, yet further preserving the garbage team we have become. i guess some are more content with 6-10 "stuck together" than 6-10 angry players ripping each other. last i checked 6-10 = 6-10. correct me if i missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 this is ridiculous. just because we dont hear about it doesnt mean it isnt happening. wow, so we dont hear portis on the radio saying daniels sucks at rushing the passer. who cares? daniels sucks at rushing the passer. were still losing games, and i cannot believe that some of you are willing to look past the LOSING and aleviate gibbs yet again of the bad job hes doing. but yes, gibbs has created a culture where nobody holds anybody accountable, and everybody is "sticking together" and keeping quiet in the media, yet further preserving the garbage team we have become. i guess some are more content with 6-10 "stuck together" than 6-10 angry players ripping each other. last i checked 6-10 = 6-10. correct me if i missed something. After going through the Norv Turner years, than yes I am happier this way. Furthermore, what I was trying to say is these are players I can respect. Not just because they don't throw each other under the bus, but because they stick together. Because of the way they have reacted to the recent events. Fans of other teams have told me they would consider trading in their winning seasons to be able to root for a group of guys such as we have. Right now I'll be honest, I'm not thinking about wins/losses as much as I'm thinking about the fact that for the first time since we had SB teams we have a team we can proud of win, lose, or draw. That was always the most obvious thing about our teams pre-Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 actually, lets consider that last statement... in the NFC East, every team has been to the playoffs more in the last 15 years than we have.... in the NFC South, its a tie...I believe the Saints have only been twice...but the Falcons, Bucs, and Panthers have all been more than us.... In the NFC Central, the Vikings, Bears, and Packers have all been to the playoffs more than we have in the last 15 years...only the Lions are less... In the NFC West, the 49ers, Seahawks, and Rams have all been to the playoffs more than us in the last 15 years....only the Cardinals less... So, considering your statement, in the last 15 years, its the Redskins and Saints followed by the Lions and Cardinals....yep that is company I wanted to keep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 actually, lets consider that last statement...in the NFC East, every team has been to the playoffs more in the last 15 years than we have.... in the NFC South, its a tie...I believe the Saints have only been twice...but the Falcons, Bucs, and Panthers have all been more than us.... In the NFC Central, the Vikings, Bears, and Packers have all been to the playoffs more than we have in the last 15 years...only the Lions are less... In the NFC West, the 49ers, Seahawks, and Rams have all been to the playoffs more than us in the last 15 years....only the Cardinals less... So, considering your statement, in the last 15 years, its the Redskins and Saints followed by the Lions and Cardinals....yep that is company I wanted to keep.... It's not company anyone wants to keep. What I'm trying to say is that the only thing that really matters is SB's. I would rather one SB than 4 trips to the NFC Championship. The Falcon, Vikings, Seahawks, Panthers, etc. on that list don't bother me much because they haven't tasted anything truly sweet. I would love to be competitive year in and year out, but all I really want is a SB. And quite frankly, those aren't easy to come by. All I'm saying is less than 1/3 of the league has tasted that since we last did. That doesn't excuse the product we've put on the field, but it should serve as a notice to people that it isn't as easy as we often make it out to be. Eagles fans often give us grief, but all we ever have to say to them is how many SB's have you won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 As an addendum to what I wrote above, I want to say that I feel truly bad for fans of the Skins that are a little younger than me. They've had to endure not much good. Because of my age, memory, and ability to attend all home games growing up I remember two SB's perfectly. Many people on this site don't have that luxury. All I can say is hang in there. The law of averages says that if you can hang around long enough at some point you should get that wonderful feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 It's not company anyone wants to keep. What I'm trying to say is that the only thing that really matters is SB's. I would rather one SB than 4 trips to the NFC Championship. The Falcon, Vikings, Seahawks, Panthers, etc. on that list don't bother me much because they haven't tasted anything truly sweet. I would love to be competitive year in and year out, but all I really want is a SB. And quite frankly, those aren't easy to come by. All I'm saying is less than 1/3 of the league has tasted that since we last did. That doesn't excuse the product we've put on the field, but it should serve as a notice to people that it isn't as easy as we often make it out to be. Eagles fans often give us grief, but all we ever have to say to them is how many SB's have you won? its a fair point to be sure, but to paraphrase, you can't win the race if you don't even run... well, the teams we consistently field (including now) aren't even worthy of being entered into the race..... as i said a couple of weeks ago on a thread....4 years into Gibbs II, did you want to listen to the Coach talking about how New England and Dallas were the "class of the league" and how we would have to play the "game of our lives" to win......or did you expect to be THAT benchmark everyone compared to? if we do not go 2-2 over the next 4 games we will end Gibbs' first 4 years with a worse record than the 4 years preceeding him (albeit with one playoff appearance)...it IS NOT getting better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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